Cross bikes for commuting

notsoblue

Asprilla wrote:

I used to have mechanical discs, sti levers, drops and hub gears.

Couple of things let it down; the hub gear and the mechanical discs. Afine hubs are heavy and you can feel it, even on moderate ramps. Having all that weight stuck out the back affects the handling as well. Also, the stepping isn't great, using 7 or 8 gears to cover such a spread leaves some big gaps. I'd want closer gearing coupled with a Schlumpf SpeedDrive.

I'd agree with this. The Alfine hub on my Day 01 makes for a pretty heavy bike. When I'm on my Planet X it feels like I'm floating on a cloud in comparison. I'd not be keen on taking an Alfine hub offroad.

EKE_38BPM

notsoblue wrote:

Asprilla wrote:

I used to have mechanical discs, sti levers, drops and hub gears.

Couple of things let it down; the hub gear and the mechanical discs. Afine hubs are heavy and you can feel it, even on moderate ramps. Having all that weight stuck out the back affects the handling as well. Also, the stepping isn't great, using 7 or 8 gears to cover such a spread leaves some big gaps. I'd want closer gearing coupled with a Schlumpf SpeedDrive.

I'd agree with this. The Alfine hub on my Day 01 makes for a pretty heavy bike. When I'm on my Planet X it feels like I'm floating on a cloud in comparison. I'd not be keen on taking an Alfine hub offroad.

When I was in the market for a new bike, I was thinking hub gears or 105. I decided hub gears are too heavy and the gaps can be too big and decided Tiagra was good enough for a workhorse.
When making any purchase you have to decide what you want Vs what you need and what you are willing to compromise on.

The bike I ended up with is close to what I thought I wanted. A little heavier, a little cheaper, a lot more durable.

As a side note, looking at the Boardman CX thread leaves me baffled that people spend that much on a bike without the ability to personalise it (gearing, wheels, tyres etc).

notsoblue

EKE_38BPM wrote:

When I was in the market for a new bike, I was thinking hub gears or 105. I decided hub gears are too heavy and the gaps can be too big and decided Tiagra was good enough for a workhorse.
When making any purchase you have to decide what you want Vs what you need and what you are willing to compromise on.

Certainly, and really what the primary purpose of the bike is. My heavy Day 01 is perfect for what I use it for, but then I don't ever really ride it at break sweat pace. People often want their "Commuter" bike to do everything, to be load bearing, mudguard and off-road tyre equipped, to be comfortable to ride in civvies, yet still appropriate for club rides and engaging in a little SCR and KOM chasing. I'd rather have separate bikes than one massive compromise on all fronts...

EKE_38BPM

notsoblue wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

When I was in the market for a new bike, I was thinking hub gears or 105. I decided hub gears are too heavy and the gaps can be too big and decided Tiagra was good enough for a workhorse.
When making any purchase you have to decide what you want Vs what you need and what you are willing to compromise on.

Certainly, and really what the primary purpose of the bike is. My heavy Day 01 is perfect for what I use it for, but then I don't ever really ride it at break sweat pace. People often want their "Commuter" bike to do everything, to be load bearing, mudguard and off-road tyre equipped, to be comfortable to ride in civvies, yet still appropriate for club rides and engaging in a little SCR and KOM chasing. I'd rather have separate bikes than one massive compromise on all fronts...

I've just (about 30 seconds ago) finished reading "One Man And His Bike by Mike Carter about his ride around the coast of Britain. All the way through I've been thinking that the Kaff would be well suited to that kind of riding (and giving me ideas), but the riding I use isn't that different: speed isn't a huge issue, I lug a load (tools, firstaid kit and paperwork), can't be fragile etc.

Maybe we shouldn't be touting CX bikes but tourers (as Menthel said).

notsoblue

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Maybe we shouldn't be touting CX bikes but tourers (as Menthel said).

Exactly... For me a tourer is a completely different type of bike.

OT: That book looks great. Having toured a bit in the UK I totally agree with the blurb. Travelling around this country on a bike gives you a great impression of it.

menthel

Unless the impression is that of a white van in the side of you!

wandsworth

This is an interesting discussion. I recently bought a Cannondale Synapse 105 Disc as a winter/bad weather bike because I wanted disc brakes and room to fit full-length mudguards. It's a great bike. But how is it different from a CX bike? Is it just that a CX bike has clearance for wider/knobbly tyres? I use mine only on roads and have 28mm Conti 4 Seasons on it.

tgotb

wandsworth wrote:

This is an interesting discussion. I recently bought a Cannondale Synapse 105 Disc as a winter/bad weather bike because I wanted disc brakes and room to fit full-length mudguards. It's a great bike. But how is it different from a CX bike? Is it just that a CX bike has clearance for wider/knobbly tyres? I use mine only on roads and have 28mm Conti 4 Seasons on it.

Depending how race-oriented they are, CX bikes typically have:
Clearance for knobbly tyres, mud etc
Brakes which provide lots of clearance; this is the reason CX bikes traditionally have cantis, it's got nothing whatsoever to do with stopping power. Lots of magazine reviewers seem completely ignorant of this. Discs obviously provide the best of both worlds, at a small weight penalty (which is why most pros are still racing cantis)
Cables routed via top of tube
Big flat area under top tube to make shouldering comfortable
Slightly higher bottom bracket (for better clearance)
(Sometimes) no bosses for water bottles
(Often) no mudguard/rack bosses
Easily grabbable downtube (eg the Crux actually has a built-in handhold)

A really race-oriented CX bike will be completely useless for commuting because it will have no mounts for rack/mudguards/bottle cages. Fortunately there are race-geometry CX bikes with all the mounting points (eg the Kinesis Pro6) and also CX bikes with a less racy geometry and all the mounting points.

My next commuter will be built around a Kinesis Pro6, because it will replicate the geometry of my CX race bikes but will allow me to attach mudguards/racks/bottle cage. In an emergency I'll also be able to take all the extra bits off and race it, which is nice to know when there's a real risk of trashing one of the race bikes and putting it out of action.

cookeeemonster

So I got a ridicuolus deal on a steel Charge Filter CX bike last november (£235 once all discounts/cashback has been appiled - £800 rrp).

Don't know the weight but the model up is around 26 pounds with heavier disc brakes and lighter groupset (105 rather than my sora) so I'm guessing it's in that ballpark. I have fitted 1.2kg of 28mm marathon plus tyres onto that...

...and compared to my Bianchi road bike (also sora, which weighs around 5 or 6 pounds less and has 25mm gp4 seasons) it takes exactly the same amount of time to do my 25 mile round trip commute...but is more comfortable doing it thanks to the wider tyres run at a lower pressure and presumably the steel frame.

Doesn't have disc brakes unfortunately but it has full (steel!) mudguards and 28mm tyres...and for some reason the stock canti brakes it has are stunningly better than anything the bianchi has even with swisstop greens - I'm assuming they'll be less effective only the rim wears down in the bad weather but so far...bloody hell they're good. Would still go for disc brakes if I could afford it though.

Basically...it rules, get a cx type bike

roger_merriman

menthel wrote:

roger merriman wrote:

menthel wrote:

roger merriman wrote:

menthel wrote:

Why get a cross bike for on road use? There are plenty of road bikes with road gearing that will take guards, panniers and have disk brakes.

Clearances for fat (er) tyres is one.

There are loads of road/audax style bikes that will take plenty big enough tyres!

Beyond 25/28? Most Audux bikes seem to top out there, CX claim a fair bit more namely at least 35mm, and fast tyres you can get to 32mm gaterskins and the like.

Still don't get it if you are sticking to the roads. May as well grab a tourer or a hybrid! :P

Actually I would consider finding a nice steel touring frame and kitting that out. Balanced for luggage, big tyre clearance and room for guards. But then again I do Audaxes so am probably considered a bit strange!

The two SS I have used had easy clearance for 25's 28's at a push shouldn't need tourers etc just to get slightly more than 23's

One of the nice thing about big tyres is they do roll nicely over rubbish Tarmac.

menthel

roger merriman wrote:

menthel wrote:

roger merriman wrote:

menthel wrote:

roger merriman wrote:

menthel wrote:

Why get a cross bike for on road use? There are plenty of road bikes with road gearing that will take guards, panniers and have disk brakes.

Clearances for fat (er) tyres is one.

There are loads of road/audax style bikes that will take plenty big enough tyres!

Beyond 25/28? Most Audux bikes seem to top out there, CX claim a fair bit more namely at least 35mm, and fast tyres you can get to 32mm gaterskins and the like.

Still don't get it if you are sticking to the roads. May as well grab a tourer or a hybrid! :P

Actually I would consider finding a nice steel touring frame and kitting that out. Balanced for luggage, big tyre clearance and room for guards. But then again I do Audaxes so am probably considered a bit strange!

The two SS I have used had easy clearance for 25's 28's at a push shouldn't need tourers etc just to get slightly more than 23's

One of the nice thing about big tyres is they do roll nicely over rubbish Tarmac.

Both my bikes will take 28s with guards. The Italia will even do it with a rack on! I thnk there are actually plenty of bikes out there that will suit. I just don't get the knee jerk CX reaction that is often seen. Sounds like the manufacturers trying to sell more CX bikes in the long run.

roger_merriman

menthel wrote:

roger merriman wrote:

menthel wrote:

roger merriman wrote:

menthel wrote:

roger merriman wrote:

menthel wrote:

Why get a cross bike for on road use? There are plenty of road bikes with road gearing that will take guards, panniers and have disk brakes.

Clearances for fat (er) tyres is one.

There are loads of road/audax style bikes that will take plenty big enough tyres!

Beyond 25/28? Most Audux bikes seem to top out there, CX claim a fair bit more namely at least 35mm, and fast tyres you can get to 32mm gaterskins and the like.

Still don't get it if you are sticking to the roads. May as well grab a tourer or a hybrid! :P

Actually I would consider finding a nice steel touring frame and kitting that out. Balanced for luggage, big tyre clearance and room for guards. But then again I do Audaxes so am probably considered a bit strange!

The two SS I have used had easy clearance for 25's 28's at a push shouldn't need tourers etc just to get slightly more than 23's

One of the nice thing about big tyres is they do roll nicely over rubbish Tarmac.

Both my bikes will take 28s with guards. The Italia will even do it with a rack on! I thnk there are actually plenty of bikes out there that will suit. I just don't get the knee jerk CX reaction that is often seen. Sounds like the manufacturers trying to sell more CX bikes in the long run.

Well yes CX is the new black (cape) this said CX are adaptable bikes, pure race ones proving the rule...

meanredspider

Why category does this fall into then?

http://www.volagi.com/bikes/viaje/

My point being, categories and labels are a nonsense. Start by deciding what you want the bike to do and then go and find the bike that meets that need.

sollophonic

I look in my local and not so local bike shops and most of their road bikes have very little mudguard clearance, not many will take more than a 25 tyre, and if you need mudguards these have often got to go down to 23. Then to keep yourself (and your fellow riders) remotely dry on the wet, muddy lanes round where I live, you have to struggle with flimsy mudguards that rattle, rub and ultimately self-destruct. Which comes sooner given the harsh ride you get from the skinny tyres.

This is why I opted for a cross-style frame, which means that I can fit guards, comfy grippy tyres and still have a fast-ish frame to cover the distances.

Mind you IMO, the bike industry has often marketed the majority of bikes pretty much inappropriate to the UK climate and roads.

I now have 35 tyres on my main bike, and I can vouch for going faster, as I don't have to avoid potholes and rough patches, I can corner faster, brake later, and bounce over most things. And my mudguards keep me drier too!