Why all the ranting about drivers?

thescouselander

Why all the ranting about drivers? Yes, a minority of them act appallingly but in my experience pedestrians are far worse. Just the other day I was riding to work when some guy waiting to cross the road looks me in the eye and steps right out in front of me. At the time I was doing about 25 mph helped by a tailwind and slight downhill gradient and disaster was only averted by a few mm as I just managed take avoiding action. This isn't the first time something like this has happened either.

By contrast run ins with drivers are few and far between in my experience.

BillyMansell

Similarly we could ask why all the ranting about pedestrians or why the need for another thread of people ranting about other people.

bigflangesmallsprocket

If you're a careful rider and quickly developed the skills to negotiate traffic, that takes some a long time, and a few scrapes to develop, then you're lucky. For many it comes the hard way. For many cyclists I imagine it's easy to be intimidated by high levels of traffic and erring on the side of over-caution can sometimes actually be more dangerous, encouraging drivers to take advantage, consciously or otherwise. Ipswich in rush hour can be a bit hairy at times, but looking on Youtube, I'm glad I don't have to negotiate London traffic!

People are softer more squishy targets, cars are hard. Over the years, through applying experience my risks have decreased as skills have improved. When I started cycling again I did notice a significant increase in traffic volume compared to my younger days, but I quickly adjusted and I make a point to maintain vigilance, look for potential problems before they happen, make deliberate eye contact at junctions, roundabouts and cross-roads, and claim my space in heavy traffic whilst being polite and showing gratitude to considerate drivers, it makes all the difference.

This attitude to cycling comes from personal experiences, developed after many incidents and near misses, and these self-preservation measures I took I later found are published recommended strategies for modern-road riding. Even so, there's always the risk of this being seen by less enlightened drivers as my having a 'bolshy' cyclist attitude, taking up too much space and some cyclists may not feel confident to ride in the centre of the road, and making eye contact could also be misconstrued as appearing aggressive.

Even so, incidents still happen. There's a particular spot in town, a little section of double carriage one-way straight road where drivers will regularly speed up and turn at a left fork, whether I'm there already or not! I learned to shove myself into the middle of the lane at the earliest opportunity on this section to stop this happening; whereas someone not used to this section could easily find themselves under a cars wheels. I've largely negated the problem of cars shoving me into the kerb but it does still happen. The other night, I was riding up-hill, the road was quiet but one car came up behind me. I'm a slug-speed but this car was going pretty slow too. The driver came up beside me. went wide and then turned straight in across me. The approach and turn I could only construe as the driver being fully aware of my presence, but not caring, the intention to force me to stop because he/she couldn't wait a couple of seconds. Cars jumping out on me at roundabouts is also a semi-regular occurrence, usually in rush hour, even when I apply the 'eye-contact' principal. They just want to shove onto the roundabout and booger-it if I'm in their way I'm just a pushbike. I do keep an eye out for this and..usually..a forceful palm out 'STOP' signal accompanied by real stare does the trick, but not always.

cyclingsheep

Sometimes the best way to avoid these things is to concentrate, have your eyes everywhere so that you see things are about to happen before they do. I've found that most of the few incidences I've had have happened when I've been elsewhere mentally. This isn't to say bad things can't happen but if you look ahead and around then you're less likely to be surprised, this holds true for driving as well as riding.

southdownswolf

I like cheese.

bigflangesmallsprocket

Funnily enough I actually enjoy cycling in town sometimes, the more so when I was on my fixed/ss. The little surges and traffic negotiation can be fun. I do actually understand why some folks ride on the pavement though. If you've not come from driving a car or m/c then the road could look like a pretty daunting prospect, but that's a subject for another thread.

thescouselander

BillyMansell wrote:

Similarly we could ask why all the ranting about pedestrians or why the need for another thread of people ranting about other people.

In some ways I agree but pedestrians are a real danger on a regular route I cycle and its not often this sort of thing is discussed on here since the focus is always on cars. For me car drivers tend to behave predictably and its usually easy to tell if a driver is about to cut you up. Pedestrians on the other hand, in my experience, can suddenly go into a flat out sprint into the road without warning. This happens in at least two place I go past regularly including a train station and 6th form collage. I'm sure these people wouldn't do the same thing if a car was coming down the road.

I'm just interested to see if anyone else has seen similar things.

sloppyschleckonds

I have had no cheese today

bigflangesmallsprocket

"I'm just interested to see if anyone else has seen similar things."

Yes, but rarely. Memorable are me as a kid on a Panther (German, bit like a Raleigh Chopper), bombing downhill, as the road curves an infant wobbles out onto the middle of the road and I slam on the brakes, but still hit the kid! Luckily the bike was okay. Seriously, the littl'un was fine, just obviously pretty shook up, as was I, I basically stopped on top of her, but if I'd been any faster I'd have run right over her, with a different ending.

Me on a lambretta, lass decides to cross the road, runs out from behind a car, freezes for just a moment, then jumps out of the way just in the nick of time, no way I could have stopped in time. People do step onto the road sometimes, but it's relatively rare and I manage to avoid them. You do get the occasional young self-pleasurer who will stick their arm right out into the road or deliberately jump out or shout just as you're level with them, always with company though, as happens with young car drivers who also like to show off.

diy

Why not give parked cars a wider berth?

Would have been your fault if you'd hit the ped btw, though likely they would cop a reduction due to contributory negligence. Pedestrians do not have the same responsibility as other road users (like it or not). There is no careful and competent pedestrian test like there is for drivers.

backo

had a ped run out between two parked cars without looking right into my path at the worst possible time. resulted in me breaking my ribs, shoulder blade and collar bone and having collar bone pinned...I don't care what experience or concentration, there was no way to avoid it. Other than the ped looking before running into the road. Plenty of damage to bike,clothing, helmet and me with no chance of getting a penny of the ped as he didn't have house insurance.

I have also always avoided shared paths as ive had so many near misses with peds. They don't have mirrors and seldom look behind them. And the ones walking towards you can be head down texting or surfing the web.

Rather take on the predictable motorists.

chris_bass

i had my photo taken today and said cheese

bigflangesmallsprocket

I was on a scooter...in the middle of the road! The car was actually parked on the opposite side of the road, the lady in question, as I stated, just ran straight out into the road from behind the car, rather than any door opening scenario; that would have alerted me straight away*. It was a case of one moment she was there..freeze frame..then hopped back the way she came. If she'd just kept going once on the move she'd have been fine anyway. She obviously just didn't check the road before she ran out and was shocked to see me almost on top of her. I wouldn't have had time to brake fully before reaching her, and a sudden change of direction to avoid her would probably have flipped me. I fail to see how that makes me culpable.

Edit: As an afterthought, if I had deliberately flipped to avoid hitting her, that WOULD have looked bad: m/cyclist not in control of vehicle and suchlike, AND I may have just rolled my machine on top of her, no telling which direction it would have gone. I do know of other scooterists and bikers who've been in situations where the only option to avoid a collision and save themselves is to do just that, fully aware that to take a dive to avoid a worse scenario won't look good on paper.

* Something I learned the hard way a long time ago. Cycling along a village high street, so limited space, some bloke coming shooting out of a garage, overtaking, pulling up, parking and opening his door, all done at speed, basically stopping and jumping out Cops n Robbers movie stylie; big American job with pretty wide doors, I was on him straight away, no time to move. I f....d up his car door and he did the same to my arm and brake lever. And he gave me false details. He did say he'd only just had the car door fixed, which probably indicates something. He wrote a name and address down on a piece of paper, then got upset when I took his plate number. I reported the accident to the police to be legal, just in case, they came back with the info that the address was wrong. Well, I DID have the plate number and you've got the details...wheres the piece of paper....you didn't tell me I needed it...that's evidence,without evidence...I found him by picking up the phone book ringing round, ijit was daft enough to give his real name. Loads o money, lived in the next county, I got his addy from his ex-wife who was scared s...less of him and I had to promise her he wouldn't find out, so I wasn't able to act privately. 1980's, him rich, posh, loads of money, me just an 'oikey' little skinhead = cops didn't want to know. Even if the accident was classed as just that...giving false details was out of order.

rayjay

Only last week, I was nearly assimilated by the Borg. It's not safe anymore.

taon24

The ranting is about drivers because a car is a 1 tonne weapon, which many people seem to believe they have an entitlement to drive. A minority do so without considering other road users. With other types of dangerous objects (Guns, Knives etc) they are acknowledged as risky and therefore those responsible are careful, while driving is often not regarded as dangerous.

Pedestrians are generally much slower and much more squishy than car bodywork and therefore less risky as a cyclist. If I run into a pedestrian I might come off at maybe 40mph (Downhill fast), the pedestrian will probably harmed too, and therefore there is an incentive for them to pay adequate attention to the road. A car could easily hit me doing 60mph in normal road conditions. The chances of me harming the car driver by colliding with the car is minimal and therefore there is greater potential for the driver not to look properly for cyclists, as they present minimal risk to the driver.