Calling our wheel building gurus

MattC59

Gents,

I'm not going to ask which wheel, I've read the threads and done my research, I was just wondering what your opinions are on Fulcrum Racing 1 and Zero are ?

Cheers..... Matt

cycleclinic

They are round and expensive. Other than that they are fairly light and look good. Quite decent really also cup and cone hubs which is nice but the hub bearings have no shell as such. there is a caged bearing and two race which sit together to make what looks like a cartridge bearing when assembled but it does not press in. Same design as found in record hubs. I think the hubs are the best bit.

ugo.santalucia

And the point of having quality hubs that outlast the rims that you can't rebuild is?

I suppose with a bit of ingenuity you can convert the rear hub into a salt or pepper mill once the wheel is done...

northpole

I am no guru and can only comment on the zero's which I've had on my good/ non-commuting bike for the last three+ years. I've had no problems other than having to adjust the rear hub 'adjuster' a couple of times. The rims themselves appear to be made out of a very durable alloy ie the braking surface has been more resistant to wear than I was expecting. I know nothing about bearings but the wheels seem to roll on forever. Both wheels continue to run true. I've had no problems with any spokes.

They are on the stiff/ rigid side when it comes to comfort, if that's a concern - I ran a 303 firecrest rear wheel this summer (with dura ace c35 front - don't ask!) on my cento uno and it was very noticeable on the first couple of rides after I switched back this autumn just how much stiffer/ direct/ less compliant the bike felt with the zero's on. I quite liked it to be fair!

I heard a couple of people warning that if you are on the heavy side, there is a risk of spoke failure - I'm the wrong side of 13 stone and haven't had a problem!

If you don't mind the slightly harsh ride, I reckon they are fantastic wheels and wouldn't hesitate to get another set.

Peter

ugo.santalucia

northpole wrote:

I am no guru and can only comment on the zero's which I've had on my good/ non-commuting bike for the last three+ years. I've had no problems other than having to adjust the rear hub 'adjuster' a couple of times. The rims themselves appear to be made out of a very durable alloy ie the braking surface has been more resistant to wear than I was expecting. I know nothing about bearings but the wheels seem to roll on forever. Both wheels continue to run true. I've had no problems with any spokes.

Peter

The clue is in that you have used them on your best bike and they've probably never seen wet and dirty roads. Alloy rims wear at a pretty homogeneous rate. The difference in alloy hardness among the aluminium alloys is not enough to justify a significant difference in wear rate, especially when the wearing element is a ceramic particle either picked up on the road or embedded in the pad (silica is used to harden rubber).
If the rim is coated with a thick ceramic shield, like OP ceramic or Mavic Exalith, that's a different story... otherwise they are all the same... some thicker, some thinner, but made of pretty much the same stuff

DiscoBoy

ugo.santalucia wrote:

And the point of having quality hubs that outlast the rims that you can't rebuild is?

I suppose with a bit of ingenuity you can convert the rear hub into a salt or pepper mill once the wheel is done...

With a factory built wheel, is the hub not re-usable?

bendertherobot

DiscoBoy wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

And the point of having quality hubs that outlast the rims that you can't rebuild is?

I suppose with a bit of ingenuity you can convert the rear hub into a salt or pepper mill once the wheel is done...

With a factory built wheel, is the hub not re-usable?

Absolutely. But reusable with what? Probably only that wheel set. So you'd have to source the rim and spokes. Which is probably as expensive as buying the wheel again, or even the wheel set!

I have F3's. I'd like to go F1 or F0 but, really, I'm utterly happy with them. They'll last years because they're on the good bike. I wouldn't have them for rain or winter riding.

majormantra

DiscoBoy wrote:

With a factory built wheel, is the hub not re-usable?

As above. You can easily re-use a hub from a factory wheelset that uses standard J bend spokes in a standard number, but few do.

For example I have a very nice Campag Proton front wheel with an excellent Record style hub. It uses standard spokes, but 22 of them! Why!? The only way to re-use the hub would be to get a rim custom drilled, which isn't worth the expense.

ugo.santalucia

MajorMantra wrote:

but 22 of them! Why!?

Probably because an imbecile at a desk with his CAD program worked out that was the best possible configuration... had he been on a bike himself he would have dropped the idea.

There are loads of 18 holes front hubs but very few rims to match them to... there are 20 and 21 holes rear which are hard to match... in practice most of the times it's best to throw away a set of very expensive hubs, rather than paying a fortune to build them into some Frankenstein

northpole

The clue is in that you have used them on your best bike and they've probably never seen wet and dirty roads.

Oh how I wish that were the case! They have been used all year round and, whilst I don't deliberately go out in bad weather (last year's Hell of Ashdown excepted!) the percentages aren't great in terms of number of times either the roads are full of cack or the weather turns bad. Not much you can do about that out on the road. I've noticed that increasingly this winter, although not so cold, I've ended up washing the bike most times after a ride due to the amount of dirt chucked up off the road. Hence my comment that they have been surprisingly robust.

Peter

ugo.santalucia

northpole wrote:

The clue is in that you have used them on your best bike and they've probably never seen wet and dirty roads.

Oh how I wish that were the case! They have been used all year round and, whilst I don't deliberately go out in bad weather (last year's Hell of Ashdown excepted!) the percentages aren't great in terms of number of times either the roads are full of cack or the weather turns bad. Not much you can do about that out on the road. I've noticed that increasingly this winter, although not so cold, I've ended up washing the bike most times after a ride due to the amount of dirt chucked up off the road. Hence my comment that they have been surprisingly robust.

Peter

Reflects more on your good TLC and maintenance skills rather than the quality of the alloy... a significantly harder alloy would wear at a slower rate, but it would also be terrible at braking... just think of the times of steel rims

There is nothing intrinsically different between steel and aluminium, other than a few numbers... hardness is the one that matters for braking

Monty Dog

I've had a pair of Shamals for about 5 years - near identical to Fulcrum 1s apart from the spoke pattern. They are excellent and have proved to be very durable and reliable. They replaced a pair of Ksyrium SSCs than were tough, but were harsher and less-aero. If you want a pair of bomb-proof all-rounders, they're a good choice. I build and maintain my own wheels - these haven't needed any attention.

MattC59

Thanks all, all feedback is much appreciated.

So, to sum up, those who own them love them, those who haven't think they're expensive and the hand built fans don't understand why you'd buy a wheel that isn't like Triggers broom

To be honest, I've been kicking around here long enough, and read enough wheel threads to know what to expect.

One last question...... White Industries Hubs..... Opinions ?

Cheers...... M

smidsy

MattC59 wrote:

To be honest, I've been kicking around here long enough, and read enough wheel threads to know what to expect.

Yet still felt the need to add to them :roll:

northpole

White Industries? I have no idea but came across this thread on another forum when I was reading up on the Chris King hubs. Should add that I have no connection with any comments made there!

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/wheels ... 07285.html

Peter

ugo.santalucia

White industries? Not easy to get hold of, you probably need to import them from outside the EU and if you need support they might not offer anything. Remember most builders are not keen to work on expensive hubs that are unsupported and for very good reasons...
There are plenty of excellent quality light hubs which do have a UK distribution... DT Swiss, for instance or Dura Ace or the UK made Royce

northpole

Good point Ugo makes - I think the thread I provided a link to is all stars and stripes, home to White Industries. Worth bearing in mind no matter how well rated a product may be.

Peter

Monty Dog

Sideways Cycles in Alsager are a White Industries dealer - very well finished but probably not weight-weenie light like DT or CK.

MattC59

ugo.santalucia wrote:

White industries? Not easy to get hold of, you probably need to import them from outside the EU and if you need support they might not offer anything. Remember most builders are not keen to work on expensive hubs that are unsupported and for very good reasons...
There are plenty of excellent quality light hubs which do have a UK distribution... DT Swiss, for instance or Dura Ace or the UK made Royce

Good points ! Strada offer White Industries hubs builds, which is what prompted my question. Reviews seem positive, but few from the UK, which I guess supports your comment.

I've had my eyes on Royce hubs for about 20years, so they've not been discounted just yet

MattC59

Monty Dog wrote:

Sideways Cycles in Alsager are a White Industries dealer - very well finished but probably not weight-weenie light like DT or CK.

Weight wise, they're comparable to the CK hubs, and considerably lighter than Royce.

MattC59

smidsy wrote:

MattC59 wrote:

To be honest, I've been kicking around here long enough, and read enough wheel threads to know what to expect.

Yet still felt the need to add to them :roll:

Because there are none which ask the question I wanted to ask.

And you continue to be a dick without adding to anything.

ugo.santalucia

MattC59 wrote:

Good points ! Strada offer White Industries hubs builds, which is what prompted my question. Reviews seem positive, but few from the UK, which I guess supports your comment.

I've had my eyes on Royce hubs for about 20years, so they've not been discounted just yet

My take is that there is nothing more frustrating than having to wait 6 weeks for a spare part and if that's the case, then you might as well buy some Mavic wheels.
Occasionally you get to a deadlock, where spares are only available in the US market and the US retailer won't post to Europe (it has happened).
My fear is that WI retail in the UK might not have adequate access to spare parts, but I might be wrong. Best thing if you want WI is to have a chat... the quality/price ratio seems pretty good actually

bendertherobot

Buy some 3's which are 99% as good (I'd imagine) and get some spare spokes just in case:

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/fulcrum-r3-mks-spoke-mini-kit/

MattC59

ugo.santalucia wrote:

MattC59 wrote:

Good points ! Strada offer White Industries hubs builds, which is what prompted my question. Reviews seem positive, but few from the UK, which I guess supports your comment.

I've had my eyes on Royce hubs for about 20years, so they've not been discounted just yet

My take is that there is nothing more frustrating than having to wait 6 weeks for a spare part and if that's the case, then you might as well buy some Mavic wheels.
Occasionally you get to a deadlock, where spares are only available in the US market and the US retailer won't post to Europe (it has happened).
My fear is that WI retail in the UK might not have adequate access to spare parts, but I might be wrong. Best thing if you want WI is to have a chat... the quality/price ratio seems pretty good actually

Thanks Ugo, appreciated input.

smidsy

MattC59 wrote:

And you continue to be a dick without adding to anything.

I thought you had been around long enough to know everything!