Recommend me some tub tyres

gotwood25

I am going to get a set of tubs as my next wheelset to see what all the fuss is about. Seeing the price of the tyres however gave me a bit of a shock so would like some recommendations having never ridden any before.

If there are also any deals to be had that would also be welcome.

Grill

http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/TBVICECXII/vittoria-corsa-evo-cx-ii-tubular-tyre

bernithebiker

That's a great price for Vittorias but bear in mind that's the old model (new ones aren't called Evo anymore), and I found the old ones a bit dicey in the wet.
They also lose air, so have to be pumped up most days.
Just fitted some Mavic tubs, which a) match my wheels, b) are completely airtight, c) grip better in the wet.

majormantra

If they don't lose air, that means they've got butyl tubes, right? Surely having a nice latex tube is one of the reasons to use tubs.

cycleclinic

Not entirely true. I ride on gator skin clincher and they feel O.K but that it. I also have gator skin tub on an Alan and in even though they are the 22mm wide they feel significantly more comfortable (but that could be the bike as well) and more importantly grips is much improved especially in the wet.

The new vittoria Pave's EVO CG are a very good tyre robust but if there is lots of sharp flint about (the bane of life in suffolk) then using Pave's can get expensive. Conti sprinter/gatorkins are one of the most robust and durable tubs I know of.

ugo.santalucia

thecycleclinic wrote:

Conti sprinter/gatorkins are one of the most robust and durable tubs I know of.

THe problem is that tubular tyres are designed for racing, so there is no such a thing as a durable tubular tyre. They can be OK if used for what they are designed, but durable is a different story

sloppyschleckonds

Grill wrote:

http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/TBVICECXII/vittoria-corsa-evo-cx-ii-tubular-tyre

I'd go with these or the Paves, usually good for 3000km

LegendLust

gotwood25 wrote:

I am going to get a set of tubs as my next wheelset to see what all the fuss is about. Seeing the price of the tyres however gave me a bit of a shock so would like some recommendations having never ridden any before.

If there are also any deals to be had that would also be welcome.

Any Veloflex tub is worth buying. I've raced on Carbon tubs for two years with no punctures - they're superb. When they need replacing I'm going to look at the Extreme http://www.wiggle.co.uk/veloflex-extreme-tubular-tyre/

BenderRodriguez

gotwood25 wrote:

I am going to get a set of tubs as my next wheelset to see what all the fuss is about.

I assume that these are for competition of some sort, otherwise I don't really see the point unless the wheels you want only come in tubular or you are riding on an indoor track when tubs give a significant margin of safety over clinchers. (Puncture a clincher on a steep indoor track and you are going down, whilst with a tub you have a good chance of staying upright.)

Whatever, there is little point fitting a notorious 'hosepipe' such as a Conti Sprinter as if you do you might as well be riding something like a Gp4000s clincher. What you need is a supple, high thread count cotton or even silk casing, with a super-light weight latex tube. Together these will allow the tyre to flex over irregularities in the road and will absorb minimal energy whilst doing so, even if run at a relatively low pressure. Something like a Vittoria Isogrip SC or anything by Veloflex would fit the bill. (Although even here you need to know your priorities, as the Carbon versions don't roll as well as the others, although they last longer.)

As has been mentioned durability (as in a long service life) is not generally a feature of high performance tubs but they can be plenty robust enough. After all, tubs are more than up to the job of being hammered over the cobbles of Paris-Roubaix at 30 Mph plus, and track tubs can take 200 Psi plus.

If you want something really exotic there are also tubs by people such the relocated Dugast company or even FMB (the choice of riders like Cancellera - http://www.fm-boyaux.fr/) but for most people Veloflex and Vittoria give the biggest bang for the buck. Continental, Tufo and some others tend to ride more like pressures, don't roll as fast and /or have a poorer price to performance ratio.

If you do choose wisely tubs still give a worthwhile performance benefit over clinchers, and don't be misled by tests that supposedly show that a clincher such as a GP4000s will roll faster than a good tub. These generally use a test rig with a smooth roller, a very different situation to riding along a typically rough road surface. Until recently I was using Conti Sprinters on my track bike, which I ride on an indoor velodrome in the winter. I only was using them because they came with the wheels as a package but I was never that happy with the grip they gave, especially over the painted advertisements on the track where they often slipped a little. This year I fitted Vittoria Pista Evos and the difference is like night and day: they grip much better, are more responsive, smoother and noticeably faster. Worth every penny!

I also bought some of these recently, paying just £29 each with the Christmas offer they had on. Now there are only 2 left!

http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/TBVICESCIS ... bular-tyre

gotwood25

No competition other than trying to be faster than my pals. One of them rides tubs and recommends them over clinchers so thought I would see for myself. I have recently joined a club however and some form of competitive riding (the slowest form) may be on the cards later on in the year.

Appreciate the reply, may pick up those last two tyres

bernithebiker

Go for it, tubs are great, light, very smooth riding. And mine last 5000km rear, 10000km front, 1 puncture.

Those 2 tubs are even better value than the 1st two mentioned, but you have to like orange sidewalls, which I don't.....!

BenderRodriguez

gotwood25 wrote:

No competition other than trying to be faster than my pals.

Yup, that's competition I guess!

One more thing, to get the best from tubs you need to use the right pressures.

The whole idea of a tyre (and suspension in general) is that when you go over bumps the tyre deforms so that no energy is wasted in raising the whole mass of the bike and rider up over the irregularity. On a very smooth road you can get a low rolling resistance from pumping a tyre as hard as you can, and because of the high pressure the carcase of the tyre will not flex much, so little energy will be lost from tyre flex even if the carcase is not super-flexible. This is is the sort of situation that many tyre tests effectively duplicate.

Meanwhile back in the real world road surfaces are often rough and bumpy. Despite this many riders still pump up their tyres board-hard and so end up bumping up and down over irregularities in the road, losing energy every time this happens. They may be encouraged to do this because they sense that the tyre feels 'dead' or 'draggy' if they run it at a lower pressure, with this drag being largely a reflection of the losses caused by the energy losses that arise from flexing the carcase and relatively inflexible butyl inner tube.

The beauty of a super-flexible tubular fitted with a thin latex tube is that you can drop the tyre pressure to the sort of level that actually allows the tyre to do its job properly, without this causing a significant loss of energy due to the carcase and tube flexing and also without running the risk of pinch flats. Depending on weight 90 - 100psi is more than enough, less on really bumpy roads. When the pros ride and event such as Paris-Roubaix they will be running pressures as low as 70 psi and yet the rolling resistance they experience will be much less than if they put 100 psi plus into their tyres. The lower pressure of tubs also produces a more comfortable ride that itself helps to conserve energy. Just don't defeat the whole object of the exercise by fitting a rigid 'hosepipe' like a Conti Sprinter or a Tufo!

BenderRodriguez

bernithebiker wrote:

Go for it, tubs are great, light, very smooth riding. And mine last 5000km rear, 10000km front, 1 puncture.

I agree, and it is good to see that tubs have made something of a comeback of late. Despite the practicality of pressures I must admit that even I have been tempted to go back to riding tubs outside of competition and track use just for the joy of it, and this is coming from the person who bought the first pair of modern 700c 'open tubulars' to come into the UK. This was after I saw a display of them at the Skol 6 day back in the mid 70's. I was able to get some of the then brand new Mavic Module E rims without too much trouble, but in the end could only get some Clement 'Super Gentleman' tyres to put on them by getting them direct from Clement in Italy. They were rubbish, with the tyre repeatedly splitting at the bead. Tubes also used to regularly blow until it was recognised that old-style rim tapes simply weren't up to the job and Velox brought out the Jantex tape.

BenderRodriguez

P.s just remembered this, an illustration of why using tubs on the track is a good idea. A blow out at 70 km/hr behind a derny. :shock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0llEKVciH4

cycleclinic

The point in the conti sprinter is if you have a tubular wheelset for general riding they are a good choice. I am not putting clincher wheels in my 1980 Alan , it has period tub wheels so the gator skin spinter tub is my choice as it means I can decent mileage out of them. Also they feel fine to ride.

Supple tubs are fine for racing and dry weather rides when it has been dry for a while. But for the folk of Glemsford and surrounding area's who have to contend with flint, lots of flint road racing in March (I have entered two) means riding a nice expensive supple tub could mean you do not finish where as the gator skin may not be a nice but it stand up to flint better, that is what you forget riding round here after it rains is like riding on road with razor blade stuck in the tarmac. So in March I will be racing on sprinters and later in the year I may change to something more supple.

Everything has it's place if you know advantages and drawbacks. Rulling a tyre out completley for all riders is not good advise. In many area in the country the roads are not covered in flint so a more supple tub may work fine. Know your roads and pick the right tyre for them.

BenderRodriguez

thecycleclinic wrote:

I am not putting clincher wheels in my 1980 Alan , it has period tub wheels so the gator skin spinter tub is my choice...

Surely, some NOS Clements are what you should really be riding?

Seriously though, the main point here is that if you are looking to use to tubs to get a performance advantage, you are not going to get it if you fit Conti Sprinters, Tufos and so forth. In which case you might as well stick to a top quality clincher unless, as I mentioned in my first post, you have no real choice but to use tubs due to the wheels you have.

Also, the OP did say that they wanted some recommendations that would enable them to 'see what all the fuss is about', not 'to fit to a retro bike that I ride around flint-strewn back lanes in the winter'. In my view something like a Conti gatorskin would not lead to the enlightenment that the OP seeks.

petemadoc

Does anyone have any experience of Challenge tubs?

They seem nicely made and don't have the sticky messy latex stuff on the tyre side of them. I love Veloflex and tried the Vittoria SC you posted above (very similar the the veloflex).

Thought I might give challenge a whirl this year.

gotwood25

Some good info there fellas, again much appreciated.
I see someone gazumped me on those two tubs, probably for the best as that orange stripe would have annoyed me.