Vegetarian sports nutrition

tommo7567

Hi all,
I have a friend who has recently taken up cycling and is training with me on a regular basis, with a view to completing some events later in the year as well as maintaining a good standard of fitness.

She plays netball, hockey and plays golf off a 6 handicap, so she is already fairly fit and quite competitive!

She is vegetarian and seeing as its her birthday coming up soon, I was thinking about buying her a book on sports nutrition, (she is no cook ) particularly with a view towards preparation and recovery meals.

Can anyone recommend a suitable book for her?

I have found this one, but would appreciate the benefit of someone's experience who is currently using such a book.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Vegetarian-Sports-Nutrition-Guide/dp/0471348082

Thanks in advance

Paul

buckles

No different to non vegetarian sports nutrition really, just eat plenty of nutritious foodstuffs, eggs lentils beans nuts seeds and of course vegetables...

Big_Ring_Rider

Buckles wrote:

No different to non vegetarian sports nutrition really, just eat plenty of nutritious foodstuffs, eggs lentils beans nuts seeds and of course vegetables...

Buckles wrote:

No different to non vegetarian sports nutrition really, just eat plenty of nutritious foodstuffs, eggs lentils beans nuts seeds and of course vegetables...

This.

Also, in the ultra marathon running world, vegetarian diets are all the rage, worth a look in to (Scott Jureks book is worth a read)

olake92

Hello to you too!

It's great to hear that your friend is getting involved in cycling. Even better that she's a veggie and hasn't been put off sport because of it. I'm a pescetarian, but encounter many of the same problems as vegetarians by restricting meat consumption to fish.

Personally, I use the Complete Guide to Sports Nutrition, which is brilliant! It's not veggie specific, but has good sections devoted to it and doesn't make a meal out of meat vs. no meat. in fact, it hardly recognises it at all, instead focussing on the important parts of true sports nutrition. Any references to vegetarianism are purely scientific.

There are some good meal plans, both veggie and non-veggie and the same can be said for their sample recipes. This takes a back seat to the nutritional science though - it's no cookbook! It' also one of the most recent publications (in its 7th edition), meaning it's up to date with the science!

As others have said, the science isn't any different, but if you're looking for a birthday present, I'd recommend this book.

If you're after a cook book, I like the BBC good food website

lakesluddite

It sounds like your friend has a pretty good regime as it is, given the amount of sport she does. I wouldn't go for that book you link to, the reviews are really bad - have you read them?

If it were me, I'd just go for a good vegetarian cookbook, something like Huge Fearnley-Whattsisname's book:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/River-Cottage-V ... ttingstall

We have this at home and have had quite a few good meals out of it.

tommo7567

olake92 wrote:

Hello to you too!

It's great to hear that your friend is getting involved in cycling. Even better that she's a veggie and hasn't been put off sport because of it. I'm a pescetarian, but encounter many of the same problems as vegetarians by restricting meat consumption to fish.

Personally, I use the Complete Guide to Sports Nutrition, which is brilliant! It's not veggie specific, but has good sections devoted to it and doesn't make a meal out of meat vs. no meat. in fact, it hardly recognises it at all, instead focussing on the important parts of true sports nutrition. Any references to vegetarianism are purely scientific.

There are some good meal plans, both veggie and non-veggie and the same can be said for their sample recipes. This takes a back seat to the nutritional science though - it's no cookbook! It' also one of the most recent publications (in its 7th edition), meaning it's up to date with the science!

As others have said, the science isn't any different, but if you're looking for a birthday present, I'd recommend this book.

If you're after a cook book, I like the BBC good food website

Thanks, I'll have a butchers at that.....

tommo7567

LakesLuddite wrote:

It sounds like your friend has a pretty good regime as it is, given the amount of sport she does. I wouldn't go for that book you link to, the reviews are really bad - have you read them?

If it were me, I'd just go for a good vegetarian cookbook, something like Huge Fearnley-Whattsisname's book:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/River-Cottage-V ... ttingstall

We have this at home and have had quite a few good meals out of it.

We have this one at home and I agree it has some great recipes, so it may be another option.
Actually her routine is terrible due to being a primary school teacher, so in general she eats poor meals whilst marking/planning which is why I want to enable her to be able to have a better diet for when she does exercise.

tommo7567

Thanks for all the replies so far peeps

metronome

olake92 wrote:

I'm a pescetarian

Can I ask what your reasons are for being a pescterarian?

neeb

As comments above, just eat a good balanced diet but make sure you get enough protein. I'm mostly veggie (I eat a little fish so I suppose I'm pescetarian too strictly speaking), and I'm lucky in that I actually like tofu. Most days I will eat some tofu, but I also eat nuts, some cheese and of course some fish. Tofu combined with wholegrains will give you all the amino acids you need.

I've been veggie for 25 years (or at least until about 10 years ago when I started eating some fish again). If you are not doing any major exercise then you don't really need to worry at all about protein intake with a vegetarian diet, but you do need to make sure you are getting enough if you are training most days. Just make sure you eat something like tofu, quorn, cheese, nuts, beans or lentils with most meals.

Also worth making sure you are getting your B12 - not a major problem unless you are vegan, but if you are eating a healthy veggie diet without many dairy products it might be worth making sure you are getting it in supplement form or else from a fortified food product such as some yeast spreads (but actually Marmite itself doesn't have much B12 in it, although it's good for other B vits).

al_kidder

metronome wrote:

olake92 wrote:

I'm a pescetarian

Can I ask what your reasons are for being a pescterarian?

This is too good to let pass.
If you don't want to eat red meat but still eat meat, you have to go with white meat. That's fish, pork, snails and insects if you want exotic food, or birds.
Now, factory farms take the day old chickens and sort them into layers and meat birds. So if you're eating chicken, you know that you're actualy eating......... that doesn't sound like it should be in a family meal
I can see why you stick with fish

Omar Little

Its not veggie specific nor is it about overall diet however i would recommend the book 'feed zone portables'. The best food book aimed at athletes that ive read

ugo.santalucia

Al Kidder wrote:

metronome wrote:

olake92 wrote:

I'm a pescetarian

Can I ask what your reasons are for being a pescterarian?

This is too good to let pass.
If you don't want to eat red meat but still eat meat, you have to go with white meat. That's fish, pork, snails and insects if you want exotic food, or birds.
Now, factory farms take the day old chickens and sort them into layers and meat birds. So if you're eating chicken, you know that you're actualy eating......... that doesn't sound like it should be in a family meal
I can see why you stick with fish

I think pork qualifies as red meat, at least if you look at things like saturated fat, cholesterol etc...

tommo7567

Omar Little wrote:

Its not veggie specific nor is it about overall diet however i would recommend the book 'feed zone portables'. The best food book aimed at athletes that ive read

cheers Omar

olake92

Al Kidder wrote:

metronome wrote:

olake92 wrote:

I'm a pescetarian

Can I ask what your reasons are for being a pescetarian?

This is too good to let pass.
If you don't want to eat red meat but still eat meat, you have to go with white meat. That's fish, pork, snails and insects if you want exotic food, or birds.
Now, factory farms take the day old chickens and sort them into layers and meat birds. So if you're eating chicken, you know that you're actualy eating......... that doesn't sound like it should be in a family meal
I can see why you stick with fish

Hi there, no problem! I was brought up pescetarian by my parents. Before I was born, they went the whole hog and became vegetarian after seeing the conditions in a slaughter house. Once they had me and my brother, they decided (rightly or wrongly) that a veggie diet wouldn't be great for the development of a young child, so decided to eat fish as well.

As for me, I simply don't miss it, having never tried it. I've done a lot of research on the subject and see no detriment to not eating meat, except for the small potential of not getting enough dietary creatine; not being a strength athlete, I'm not too fussed about that. I'm not really a moral eater, although I'm not keen on farmed food, in fact I've ripped open and prepared various dead animals with my bare hands on a survival course!

As an athlete, I want to get as much lean protein as possible, which is harder to do with red meats due to the higher levels of saturated fat. The saturated fat present in fish is generally very good for you (omega 3 and all that) and still has the effect of regulating hormones.

I wouldn't ever go fully vegetarian, mainly because I like fish!

I'm afraid I can't really give a much better explanation than that, but if you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

metronome

olake92 wrote:

I'm a pescetarian

metronome wrote:

Can I ask what your reasons are for being a pescetarian?

olake92 wrote:

Hi there, no problem! I was brought up pescetarian by my parents. Before I was born, they went the whole hog and became vegetarian after seeing the conditions in a slaughter house. Once they had me and my brother, they decided (rightly or wrongly) that a veggie diet wouldn't be great for the development of a young child, so decided to eat fish as well.

As for me, I simply don't miss it, having never tried it. I've done a lot of research on the subject and see no detriment to not eating meat, except for the small potential of not getting enough dietary creatine; not being a strength athlete, I'm not too fussed about that. I'm not really a moral eater, although I'm not keen on farmed food, in fact I've ripped open and prepared various dead animals with my bare hands on a survival course!

As an athlete, I want to get as much lean protein as possible, which is harder to do with red meats due to the higher levels of saturated fat. The saturated fat present in fish is generally very good for you (omega 3 and all that) and still has the effect of regulating hormones.

I wouldn't ever go fully vegetarian, mainly because I like fish!

I'm afraid I can't really give a much better explanation than that, but if you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

Hi,

Thanks for your in-depth and interesting reply.

What you said regarding your parents choice to raise you as a Pescetarian despite being vegetarians themselves is very interesting. I have often wondered what my stance would be should I ever be in that situation. Imposing personal beliefs on others is something I'm very much against - be it religion, vegetarianism or brand of bike.

Cheers,

olake92

metronome wrote:

What you said regarding your parents choice to raise you as a Pescetarian despite being vegetarians themselves is very interesting. I have often wondered what my stance would be should I ever be in that situation. Imposing personal beliefs on others is something I'm very much against - be it religion, vegetarianism or brand of bike.

You're definitely right there; I guess it's incredibly difficult for parents to avoid imposing beliefs on their children! Now that I'm old enough to make decisions for myself (21), there's certainly no pressure from my parents to continue with pescetarianism - it's very much a personal choice (although no doubt shaped by my upbringing).

My mum owned a health food store many years ago, which I imagine had some bearing on them being willing to try and get the 'healthiest' option for me and my brother.

Luckily, I've always chosen my own bike!

neeb

The thing is that it's impossible and undesirable not to impose some beliefs on children. So is there a meaningful distinction between a "personal" belief (such as vegetarianism), and one that is generally accepted in the society in which you live (such as not owning slaves)? In many countries, strong religious belief is universally accepted and it wouldn't be thought of as "imposing" to bring children up with those beliefs any more than it is in our society to bring them up believing that slavery is bad and that the earth goes around the sun. In ancient Rome (or even in the 19thC southern U.S.) you'd have been thought of as a weirdo extremist for suggesting that slavery should be abolished. Does a belief count as "personal", and therefore "imposed", simply because it is a minority belief? Aren't parents who bring children up to eat meat also "imposing"?

I just say this because I am suspicious of extreme relativism, the idea that all beliefs are as valid as any others. At the end of the day you have to decide for yourself what is "right" and act accordingly, whether or not the majority of people in the society in which you live agree with you.

lakesluddite

But is vegetarianism a 'belief', or simply a 'lifestyle'? I certainly don't regard my vegetarianism as a 'belief'...or at least I didn't until I read some of this thread!

I suppose it depends on your definition of belief, and that's a whole other debate.

(Isn't it curiouos how these threads quickly divert off the original topic)

neeb

LakesLuddite wrote:

But is vegetarianism a 'belief', or simply a 'lifestyle'? I certainly don't regard my vegetarianism as a 'belief'...or at least I didn't until I read some of this thread!

I suppose it depends on your definition of belief, and that's a whole other debate.

(Isn't it curiouos how these threads quickly divert off the original topic)

Yeah, I don't regard my vegetarianism as a belief either, and in itself being veggie is not a belief but a set of actions, although a lot of people (perhaps more so 20 years ago than nowadays) are veggie because they believe that it's wrong/unnecessary to kill and eat animals. I guess when I became vegetarian originally 25 years ago I was coming from that angle, but nowadays my beliefs on that issue are more complex and it's more a habit / lifestyle thing.

Grill

I went fully vegan for 9 months last year. No problems on the bike in terms of energy as I just stuck to medjool dates, bananas, gels, and the occasional beans on toast during an audax. I started off by watching my macros, but couldn't be bothered after a week, so I just went about eating appropriate foods. I also stayed off soya and other fake meat products. Pretty easy really. I'm back to just eating normally again, but I'd do it again if I felt there were real benefits.

olake92

Grill wrote:

I started off by watching my macros, but couldn't be bothered after a week, so I just went about eating appropriate foods... Pretty easy really. I'm back to just eating normally again, but I'd do it again if I felt there were real benefits.

This is an interesting point, I think where many people go wrong when they adopt some form of non-meat based diet is forgetting about the macros; when cutting out calorie dense foods like, for instance, bacon, you need to balance out the ensuing calorie deficit. I would say that if you wanted - and if you got the macros right - you could live off just about any food. Admittedly, it is a chore. As long as they know that they may need to eat more, a new vegetarian should manage fine.

neeb wrote:

my beliefs on that issue are more complex and it's more a habit / lifestyle thing.

That makes sense, I would define my pescetarianism as a lifestyle choice, rather than a belief. Although, I'm sure there's an argument to be made regarding the semantics of the two!

LakesLuddite wrote:

Isn't it curious how these threads quickly divert off the original topic

Hopefully, the OP's query has been answered! This just seems like an interesting thread now.

metronome

It certainly did get interesting! And it goes to show that nothing is ever simply black and white. Except for my Cannondale - except for the red bits. See!

simon_masterson

neeb wrote:

[A]lthough a lot of people (perhaps more so 20 years ago than nowadays) are veggie because they believe that it's wrong/unnecessary to kill and eat animals. I guess when I became vegetarian originally 25 years ago I was coming from that angle, but nowadays my beliefs on that issue are more complex and it's more a habit / lifestyle thing.

Yes - I think there are a few distinct vegetarian and vegan groupings. For some, it's essentially a food phobia; they don't eat meat out of squeamishness. Others are brought up vegetarian and know no different, or otherwise are directed to avoid animal products (e.g. some athletes) for whatever reason. Choosing either to eschew factory farmed meat (as do I) or meat altogether for ethical reasons is a 'belief'; and in my view not a nutritional choice in and of itself. In my view the only people that are vegetarian or vegan in the fullest sense are those that feel no need or impulse to consume meat/animal products, and form their diet from other sources.

I should say, I myself am not a vegetarian. I was once - as a child I made that decision and maintained it for about 6 years, and I went to a vegetarian school for nearly my entire education - but though ethics have a heavy influence on my decisions (I try to only buy free range, for example), left to my own devices I just don't feel the need to eat much meat (i think I'd find it hard to give up dairy); I identify with the latter of my groupings. For a long time a couple of years ago I ate moreorless vegetarian; times were tough, and together my wife and I took the decision not to buy meat rather than compromise our principles. Plus, vegetarian has some fantastic dishes. I could eat falafel and hummus all day...

tommo7567

Hopefully, the OP's query has been answered! This just seems like an interesting thread now.

It has thanks for those ideas all, and you're right it is an interesting read now so feel free to keep it going.

Cheers

paul

Velonutter

I became a vegetarian over 30 years ago and when I met my wife she was vegetarian as well, so it made things very easy.

I was very ignorant of the complexities of nutrition and the different styles and types of vegetarian, I'm a lacto vegetarian and by that I eat dairy products and milk., in essence my classification is that I will eat anything that an animal etc hasn't had to die to provide.

When our children were born we really were at a loss as to what to do, our beliefs were very strong but we didn't want to jeopardise their lives, so we decided that we would bring them up as healthy meat eaters and wouldn't discuss in too greater detail our reason why we were vegetarian. We stressed to our kids that until they were 16 that unless they could provide very valid reasons for wanting to be vegetarian then they would have to wait until they could make their own mind up.

Not sure it was the honourable thing to do, but that was our choice.

At the time there was not the choice of vege food that there is now, if there had of been then things would certainly have been different.

As for nutrition now, green lentils are my biggest source of protein, I also buy Puy lentils in a tomato and basil source pre cooked from Sainsburys, absolutely delicious and I can tell when I have eaten properly and when I have not watched the protein, not sure how but I feel accurately aware of when I haven't been eating so wisely.

In essence just watch what you eat and replace the meat part of any meal with the likes of Quorn, Tofu or Lentils, being of Hungarian descent I like highly flavoured food so any alternative however unappealing can be made to taste delicious.