Coffee snobs?

ddraver

So i ve been drinking coffee since September having been forced to have a pre club-run espresso by the barista that sponsored the "club"

What are coffee snobs opinions on Nespresso for "espressos" then? I notice that the Pro machine at work gives you a cup half the size (and much cooler) than the normo one...?

RDW

briantrumpet wrote:

And keep them in the fridge or freezer.

Heresy! That's as bad as ice in whisky! Keep the beans in a sealed container, chuck them out when they go stale, and always grind just before use.

RDW

ddraver wrote:

What are coffee snobs opinions on Nespresso for "espressos" then? ?

It's drinkable, and better than the high-tar espresso you might get in an average restaurant, but nowhere near as good as someone who knows what they're doing can manage with freshly roasted, freshly ground beans and a proper espresso machine.

Giraffoto

Is a proper espresso machine one of those little stove-top shiny aluminium pots, or the sort of machines that they use in cafes?

briantrumpet

ugo.santalucia wrote:

sa0u823e wrote:

Is there something like this with ice cream in Italy or is this my imagination?

Not that I'm aware of

It's probably called the Mafia.

Actually, I did find it odd that in France you trip over bakeries at every turning, but in Italy, even Rome, you need to search them out. Unlike petrol stations, which pop up every few hundred yards, it seems, along all roads.

I suspect that the coffee market is not the only one that is distorted in some way in Italy.

ugo.santalucia

briantrumpet wrote:

It's probably called the Mafia.

Actually, I did find it odd that in France you trip over bakeries at every turning, but in Italy, even Rome, you need to search them out. Unlike petrol stations, which pop up every few hundred yards, it seems, along all roads.

I suspect that the coffee market is not the only one that is distorted in some way in Italy.

Don't judge Italy by Rome... Rome, like Venice are not your average city, especially if you roam around the touristy areas. A bakery cannot survive in the centre of Rome, business rates are too steep.

The connection Italy = Mafia is an easy one, bit like Britain = hooligans, bad teeth and teenage pregnancies ... it is of course a lot of bullxhit

briantrumpet

ugo.santalucia wrote:

The connection Italy = Mafia is an easy one, bit like Britain = hooligans, bad teeth and teenage pregnancies ... it is of course a lot of bullxhit

Ha, smoked you out. Of course you would deny it

Re bakeries ... the one I found in the end was delightful. Once I'd found that, a Despar, and Il Gelatone I was happy.

southdownswolf

ugo.santalucia wrote:

The connection Italy = Mafia is an easy one, bit like Britain = hooligans, bad teeth and teenage pregnancies ... it is of course a lot of bullxhit

Correct, it should be Italy = hooligans

napoleond

RDW wrote:

briantrumpet wrote:

And keep them in the fridge or freezer.

Heresy! That's as bad as ice in whisky! Keep the beans in a sealed container, chuck them out when they go stale, and always grind just before use.

Yeah I grind fresh per shot. A bag of beans only last 3 days or so!

RDW

Giraffoto wrote:

Is a proper espresso machine one of those little stove-top shiny aluminium pots, or the sort of machines that they use in cafes?

Well, the cafe machines really, though there are decent home machines like the Gaggia Classic for under £200 that will do the job better than Nespresso. You'll also need a burr grinder to go with it (under £150 for an MC2, or under £50 for a hand grinder with ceramic burrs). The stove top things (moka pots) are pretty good, though it's not really espresso (much lower pressure). The Bialetti Brikka is nice for about £35 - raises the pressure a bit with a weighted valve, and the grind doesn't need to be that fine, so you can get away with a £20 blade grinder like the Krups.

napoleond

I have a gaggia classic but with a better portafilter and I changed the steam wand for a Rancilio one. It's bloody ace! My grinder is an Iberital MC2 bought from Happy Donkey. I'm a happy home coffee drinker )

Loretta Damage

Love coffee. Best beans I've found are Sainsbury's Fair Trade Espresso, always seem to be on offer as well which is a bonus. I use a Krups grinder & Delonghi espresso machine, nothing flash but does the job nicely. Can't beat a pre-ride espresso, really gets the enzymes flowing!

slowmart

Hasbean coffee here with a 3 month subscription. Fresh, different and great beans to your door every week.

Jura Bean to cup machine. 3 years faultless coffee production with regular cleaning.

I appreciate its all a bit of a yawn but a great cup of coffee is a simple joy.

napoleond

Having done all the main on line coffee sellers I've settled on Booths supermarket. A lot cheaper but also the nicest! Big win.

Sam Rothstein

briantrumpet wrote:

My little fight back against coffee shops is to ask for a "double espresso, but with some extra hot water" - nearly always cheaper than an americano, but that's exactly what I'm getting. Well, actually better than what normally passes for an americano, as most places put in way too much hot water.

I don't think you really need to be fighting back against coffee shops it's hard enough to make a living as it is - you'll notice that cafe owners aren't all arriving to work in a Ferrari. If you're doing this to in independent local cafe where margins are tiny (raw materials for making coffee are nothing compared to the overheads) then you're making it more likely they'll decide it's not worth it and shut up shop and you'll just be left with Starbucks and Nerro who can absorb the cost of your protest.

Drink-in customers who have an espresso will nearly always drink it quickly and be on their way in a few minutes, therefore my ability to "turn" that table increases. Part of what you're paying for with your americano is my opportunity cost on that table because you'll be occupying it for longer which means I miss out on serving someone else a hazelnut and caramel cappuccino. It might not sound much but it can be the difference between a small business surviving or failing. I would sell you this on take-away and as a one-off but if you did it regularly and during busy periods I wouldn't, at which point I may lose your custom but I have to do what's best for the business.

I would though make your americano how you liked it.

twist83

I am a self confessed coffee freak. I will not drink instant or the horrible supermarket Pre Ground or beans. Not because I am a snob but because frankly they are awful, bitter and acrid.

My coffee obsession has ended up with me having an Expobar Brewtus and Mazzer Supper Jolly at home. I then use an Aeropress and Hand grinder for work.

I literally cannot drink anything the big chains punt out. It just tastes awful. People who live in London are lucky as they literally have so many top notch Independant Artisan coffee shops.

chrisaonabike

I'm a bit of a coffee snob. If it's not real coffee, I'll have tea please, can't stand instant.

Café direct rich roast for me.

Giraffoto

Interestingly (for me at least) most of this discussion seems to be centred on the equipment you use to make your coffee, rather than the product. Now as I've said, I just have the stuff that comes in jars, so I can't purport to be any sort of expert here - but doesn't anyone have a preference for a particular variety, as distinct from a brand? Arabica, Robusta, Liberica? Kenyan, Ugandan or Ethiopian? That odd Indonesian variety that's been defecated by palm civets?

Sam Rothstein

Giraffoto wrote:

Interestingly (for me at least) most of this discussion seems to be centred on the equipment you use to make your coffee, rather than the product. Now as I've said, I just have the stuff that comes in jars, so I can't purport to be any sort of expert here - but doesn't anyone have a preference for a particular variety, as distinct from a brand? Arabica, Robusta, Liberica? Kenyan, Ugandan or Ethiopian? That odd Indonesian variety that's been defecated by palm civets?

I think the issue is that to consistently assess one bean against another to find your favorite you really need to be drinking a lot of coffee at home and making it properly which means you would end up spending a lot of time doing it so most people don't and have more when they're out or at work.

If you only have a cup a day you probably won't have multiple varieties of bean on the go at once as they only last a short time before the flavour will degrade anyway so judging them side-by-side is unusual.

I would much rather have a bean of a variety I like less made properly than a variety I prefer made badly and I think that's the reason why most people discuss equipment rather than bean. It would be even worse if we all did our own roasting!

You'd probably get the same thing in a wine/beer forum on home-brew which you wouldn't if you were discussing just buying a bottle.

To sort sort of answer your question...I like some robusta mixed in with arabica,I find arabica on it's own a bit bland as I like a bitter espresso. As a bonus you also get a tiny bit more caffeine.

twist83

I am a big fan of the Ethiopian Yirgacheffes. Very different tasting and sublime when made with Milk at a Flat White/6oz size.

I tend to prefer the lighter roasts where more subtle flavours are present. I am not a fan at all of dark roasts or Arabica blend but understand why people do. Just is not for me.

As an all round coffee though anything from Fazenda made properly is lovely. Classic chocolate/nutty coffee. Great as Espresso or with Milk again.

If you want to judge them side by side then a cupping event is the way forward (Sounds dodgy!!)

paul64

I'll own up to being another closet coffee snob although I have posted on here for a long time and never mentioned it before. In the past 10 years I have owned a cheap Gaggia, A Pavoni Europiccola (take it out of the box for fun occasionally and was shocked to see they cost £500 now!), an Expobar Brewtus II and an Izzo Alex MKII, these days I use an Alex Duetto. I owned a Macap MC4 grinder then moved to a Mazzer Mini Electronic. I started roasting with an iRoast, then A Hottop, a Gene Cafe which I modified to control the input watts and avoid the on-off roast method and difficult-to-control scorching before importing a Quest M3 that I have used for the past year. I used to an Aerobie and I still keep a decent Moka Pot around for occasional night-time use (when the Duetto is off and not due to come back on until the morning).

But it's all about the coffee. I started with Whittard, bought some beans from Hasbean and the like before becoming part of a group buy through Bella Barista where I buy all my equipment, spares and green beans, they are a brilliant company. At any one time I have 20kg minimum across about 10 varieties, I keep roasting logs, maintenance charts and evolved a grind-table so I know within a shot where any variety is likely to grind in terms of fineness and volume.

And just to round this out it it's all about the water too and I have used a RO system for about 4 years.

I generally avoid coffee conversations but word gets around. The acid test about whether all this produces better coffee is that, yes, people come round and want a coffee, they love it when I grind a fresh roast (about 3 days old) then take some for them to enjoy in their Moka pot or cafetiere.

Biggest disappointment for me was expecting nectar in Rome and finding it okay but nothing special so I take Ugo's comments on board to experience it in Naples, it's on my to do list. I feel that France and Spain have appalling coffee, never had a drinkable cup in either country yet!

RDW

Giraffoto wrote:

Interestingly (for me at least) most of this discussion seems to be centred on the equipment you use to make your coffee, rather than the product. Now as I've said, I just have the stuff that comes in jars, so I can't purport to be any sort of expert here - but doesn't anyone have a preference for a particular variety, as distinct from a brand? Arabica, Robusta, Liberica? Kenyan, Ugandan or Ethiopian? That odd Indonesian variety that's been defecated by palm civets?

Usually Arabica from South/Central America, sometimes single origin but more often a blend from somewhere like Square Mile or Monmouth (never ordered from Hasbean, but had a great blend of theirs at Fernandez and Wells). The exact beans you get from the specialist roasters vary with seasonal availability. Right now, looking for decent decaf, which I never thought existed until I tried a couple at the Monmouth shop and at Prufrock in London. Best so far was the Finca Borbollon (El Salvador), a CO2 process decaf from Square Mile, but it doesn't seem to be available at the moment. At the other extreme, there's the Algerian Coffee Store's Formula Rossa, an unfashionably dark roast with a serious caffeine kick that probably means it has some Robusta in the blend - a good one for the moka pot. Never tried the civet cat stuff, and my experiments with a ferret and a jar of Nescafe were singularly unsuccessful.

buckles

briantrumpet wrote:

Buckles wrote:

bernithebiker wrote:

What is the profit margin on that? Huge or enormous?

Depends how much it costs to rent, heat, light and power the building, pay the staff, council tax, water bills etc...

Good standard (espresso) coffees in France and Italy don't seem to be viewed as 'fleece the customer' items, unlike here. Though if people want to adulterate their coffee with all sorts of bizarre flavours, they deserve to get ripped off. I say that in a caring, condescending sort of way, you understand.

Wait... what?

buckles

twist83 wrote:

I am a big fan of the Ethiopian Yirgacheffes. Very different tasting and sublime when made with Milk at a Flat White/6oz size.

I tend to prefer the lighter roasts where more subtle flavours are present. I am not a fan at all of dark roasts or Arabica blend but understand why people do. Just is not for me.

As an all round coffee though anything from Fazenda made properly is lovely. Classic chocolate/nutty coffee. Great as Espresso or with Milk again.

If you want to judge them side by side then a cupping event is the way forward (Sounds dodgy!!)

Absolutely loved the last bag of Yergacheffe I had, really lemony and sweet. Big fan of fruity acidic coffees but also love some of the 'boozy' coffees... had something a while back (Sidikalang?) that basically tasted like fermented bananas. Hated it when I first tried it and attempted to get a refund, but ended up loving it and when it ran out no more was available.

Edit: this stuff! http://archive.hasbean.co.uk/indonesian ... 010__11498

Loretta Damage wrote:

Love coffee. Best beans I've found are Sainsbury's Fair Trade Espresso, always seem to be on offer as well which is a bonus. I use a Krups grinder & Delonghi espresso machine, nothing flash but does the job nicely. Can't beat a pre-ride espresso, really gets the enzymes flowing!

Problem with supermarket coffee is it's been sat around a while after roasting. Given that the expiry dates are often not a couple of weeks or even months but years in the future, who knows how long it's been on the shelf? That said, it is much, much cheaper. When I looked at how much I'd spent on Has Bean's little red bags over the last three months (and thought about how much of that I could have spent on cycling stuff) I was almost sick.

FransJacques

Holy crap I can't believe two of you own Brewtus'! After 5 years with a heavily modded Silvia I'm ready for my first E61 machine but the choice is too great. Faema, Rocket, Isomac, Quickmill, Grimac etc its worse than cross tyre choice. Any advice about how you chose the Expobar would be welcomed.

Best coffee in a bar ever is off the square in Frascati near Rome. All about the right blend of (whisper it) robusta. Agreed that France, Spain and Swiss make sheit coffee.

Beans in the freezer plays havoc with any moisture. Avoid.

Leeuw

briantrumpet wrote:

My little fight back against coffee shops is to ask for a "double espresso, but with some extra hot water" - nearly always cheaper than an americano, but that's exactly what I'm getting. Well, actually better than what normally passes for an americano, as most places put in way too much hot water.

Have you tried asking for an Espresso Lungo? A proper barista (as I think Costa claim all there staff are) will know what you're talking about - and if you've not heard of one, it's just an espresso that's left to run in the coffee machine for longer - tastes way better than an espresso topped up with hot water.

My god, I sound like a coffee snob

Leeuw

Giraffoto wrote:

Interestingly (for me at least) most of this discussion seems to be centred on the equipment you use to make your coffee, rather than the product. Now as I've said, I just have the stuff that comes in jars, so I can't purport to be any sort of expert here - but doesn't anyone have a preference for a particular variety, as distinct from a brand? Arabica, Robusta, Liberica? Kenyan, Ugandan or Ethiopian? That odd Indonesian variety that's been defecated by palm civets?

In my recent coffee quests (direct result of Santa replacing the cafetierre with a DeLonghi pump espresso maker) I'm leaning towards Arabica blends as they seem to make a smoother espresso... For me anyway...

And as far as geographically speaking, I've tried a lot of Central/South American coffees and liked them - Kenyan coming in close behind though.

And the new machine has greatly reduced my coffee drinking at work - out a machine and tastes like poo!!

florerider

Leeuw wrote:

Giraffoto wrote:

Interestingly (for me at least) most of this discussion seems to be centred on the equipment you use to make your coffee, rather than the product. Now as I've said, I just have the stuff that comes in jars, so I can't purport to be any sort of expert here - but doesn't anyone have a preference for a particular variety, as distinct from a brand? Arabica, Robusta, Liberica? Kenyan, Ugandan or Ethiopian? That odd Indonesian variety that's been defecated by palm civets?

In my recent coffee quests (direct result of Santa replacing the cafetierre with a DeLonghi pump espresso maker) I'm leaning towards Arabica blends as they seem to make a smoother espresso... For me anyway...

And as far as geographically speaking, I've tried a lot of Central/South American coffees and liked them - Kenyan coming in close behind though.

And the new machine has greatly reduced my coffee drinking at work - out a machine and tastes like poo!!

when it comes out of the civet you are supposed to PICK OUT THE GOOD BITS :roll:

Gazzaputt

Just ditched the Gaggia Baby Classic. Yes it makes nice coffee but build quality is shockingly bad. 5 years went back each year for a fault. Now out of warranty and steam has packed up, handle broke off, paint come away and it leaks!

Was my 2nd Gaggia before I had a Synchrony which was just as unreliable.

Now gone for a all singing dancing De'Longhi.

I use Lavazza Super Crema beans.

Doctor House

I saw "My Strange Addiction" a few months ago which featured a couple who were addicted to coffee enemas. It was something along the lines of 2 - 3 litres at a time, 9 times a day. They each had their own preferred blends of coffee & they would jolly along to the coffee supplier to select their special mix of beans and grind them up. Then it would be back home for a couple of litres up the back pipe. They were definitely Coffee Snobs. Only the finest beans for them.

Apologies if this has already been mentioned in the thread. I'm catching up and have only skim read the thread.