Handbuilt wheels. Final Decision.

FatBobSlim

I've been 'lurking' for a while now and picked up some great ideas for a new handbuilt set of wheels. I am 6ft, 85kg max and ride a mixture of solo and group rides averaging 40+miles a week and this year I would like to enter some sportives. The bike may occasionally be used for dry weather commutes. I'm looking for a reliable, lowish maintenance all round wheelset which will cover most bases. Below are my final options minus spoke count/type because that will depend on hubs and rims used but I have a good idea on which are suitable already. I would like to get some feedback on which of the below would suit my needs, or whether they would all be much of a muchness!

Also, rather sadly, I need to get some bike styling tips! I am not good at this kind of stuff! Assuming any of the below builds would suit my requirements, which of these combinations do you think would look best? My head says to stick with black hubs and rims, but something keeps drawing me to silver hubs and spokes, but are these best left to more retro builds?

The bike is a sky blue 2014 Cannondale CAAD8 105, like this one; [http://www.cannondale.com/nor/catalog/product/view/id/31897/s/caad8-5-105/category/916/] (sorry, this is my first post and I haven't worked out how to add an image yet!) The builds I am considering based on a max budget of £400 are these;

1. DT Swiss 350 hub on black Archetype or DT Swiss RR440 (not so worried about spoke colour on this build)
2. Miche Racing Box hub on black or dark grey Archetype or DT Swiss RR440 with silver spokes
3. Hope Mono RS in Silver on either the black or dark grey Archetype or DT Swiss RR440 with silver spokes

Any input re both the build itself and the slightly shallow, aesthetically oriented subject of how they will look on the bike would be gratefully received!
Cheers

majormantra

I really like silver hubs but in the case of the Miche, the black Primato looks much nicer than the Racing Box IMO.

I'd probably go Dark Grey Archetype/Primato/silver spokes, but all are good options. I always use silver spokes because they are timeless, they sparkle, and they are also cheaper. (And possibly stronger, depending on who you believe.)

ugo.santalucia

DT 350 and Archetype

majormantra

The combo I mentioned would also be quite a bit cheaper than, for example, anything with the Hopes.

FatBobSlim

Thanks MajorMantra and Ugo. I think I subconsiously put the Hope's last as they were my least favourite, partly as I'm not sure they offer anything extra over the DT Swiss 350 or Miche hubs for the same or more money. The Miche hubs do appear to be very good value. I also like silver spokes, black spokes seem to look dirty very quickly although I'm only going by my singlespeed commuter which is used in all weather.

Ugo, do you prefer that combination for any specific reason. The DT Swiss hubs do appeal. I see very little, if any negative info on them around the various forums. But then the same applies to the Miche hubs too. I think the Archetype is also winning for me for the same reason.

ugo.santalucia

FatBobSlim wrote:

Ugo, do you prefer that combination for any specific reason. The DT Swiss hubs do appeal. I see very little, if any negative info on them around the various forums. But then the same applies to the Miche hubs too. I think the Archetype is also winning for me for the same reason.

I do like DT for two reasons:

1) The bearings have a virtually infinite life if used properly
2) the freehub has a unique mechanism, which I find better than the standard pawl/ratchet. It's also easier to keep clean and in tip top conditions with zero tools. All parts can be individually replaced, unlike in many standard freehubs, which are virtually a single blocks to throw away when one part fails (mostly due to lack of individual spares).

The downside of DT is that some special tools are required to replace the cartridges... but I have never tried myself, there was never a need, so I don't know whether you can make do with standard tools

bmxboy10

Why not go Ultegra 6800 on the hubs and save some wedge?

majormantra

Ultegras are nice, but they cost a fair few quid more than the Miches. Limited hole counts as well.

smidsy

Nowt wrong with Hope hubs either, very nicely made and they look the dogs. Oh and they are British.

FatBobSlim

Thanks Ugo. So possibly a DT Swiss dealer may have the required tools if I were not able to do it myself? I'm liking the sound of the DT's more and more. The ability to clean/service easily really appeals. I have a young family and find time for riding hard to come by and don't really want to spend too much time doing maintenance.

Ideally I was looking at a 28/28 build which I think is adequate for my weight/riding with the Archetypes in particular and I think Ultegra in 28's are hard to get in the UK. I also am a bit nervous of the required servicing for the Ultegra, as above I don't find lots of time for bike maintenance at the moment. Maybe when the kids are older and they can come out with me and 'help' me with the maintenance it might be different!

So I suppose the question for myself is, are the DT Swiss hubs worth around £140 more than the Miche hubs! Although I see the Miche hubs in a 28/28 pairing look to be quite hard to get hold of at the moment as well.

Smidsy, I was just starting to convince myself that it was out of the other 2 . I used to have some Hope hubs on an mtb and they were great, but I wonder if the noise might annoy me more on a road bike (and yes I will try and pedal more!! )

BenderRodriguez

I would avoid the Miche hubs. I had a pair and the alloy the pawls sit in was very soft, so much so that the metal deformed causing the freewheel to stick. I identified the problem and filed down the burrs, only for the same thing to happen again. Finally the pawls wouldn't sit in their recesses properly, this time locking the freewheel completely. A pity really because I really wanted to like these hubs. Oh, and parts availability for Miche is not very good either!

smidsy

FatBobSlim wrote:

Smidsy, I was just starting to convince myself that it was out of the other 2 . I used to have some Hope hubs on an mtb and they were great, but I wonder if the noise might annoy me more on a road bike (and yes I will try and pedal more!! )

The noise is the best bit - really winds folk up when they are hanging their arse out and you are behind them freewheeling

Also a sign of the very good quality internals in their product - yes they are more money but they are very nice and loads better than the Miche.

Hope or Dura Ace I reckon

ugo.santalucia

BenderRodriguez wrote:

I would avoid the Miche hubs. I had a pair and the alloy the pawls sit in was very soft, so much so that the metal deformed causing the freewheel to stick. I identified the problem and filed down the burrs, only for the same thing to happen again. Finally the pawls wouldn't sit in their recesses properly, this time locking the freewheel completely. A pity really because I really wanted to like these hubs. Oh, and parts availability for Miche is not very good either!

True... the same happens to all alloy freehubs with Shimano splines though... including Hope, Novatec, Chris King etc...
The solution is to use a cassette with multiple carriers rather than single sprockets.
Shimano have no interest to acknowledge the problems, as they use steel or titanium freehubs to avoid it, so they don't give a toss if your wheels get chewed by their cassettes, so to speak...

FatBobSlim

Have read of a few instances of the freehub issues with the Miche hubs, but as Ugo says, it seems to be an affliction for a lot of of other aluminium freehub bodies including Hope and Novatec/Ambrosio.

Does anyone know what the freehub material is on the DT Swiss 350 hubs? It doesn't say on their website. I'm assuming aluminum given the weight of the rear hub is only 265g.

Smidsy, are you just trying to help me spend my money! Dura-ace would be great. I copuld buy one hub this year the other next year and then the rims in 2016!!

ugo.santalucia

FatBobSlim wrote:

Have read of a few instances of the freehub issues with the Miche hubs, but as Ugo says, it seems to be an affliction for a lot of of other aluminium freehub bodies including Hope and Novatec/Ambrosio.

Does anyone know what the freehub material is on the DT Swiss 350 hubs? It doesn't say on their website. I'm assuming aluminum given the weight of the rear hub is only 265g.

Smidsy, are you just trying to help me spend my money! Dura-ace would be great. I copuld buy one hub this year the other next year and then the rims in 2016!!

DT is aluminium...
If you want Dura Ace buy only the rear... 159 pounds at Evans... then you can buy a cheap front hub... front hubs are much of a muchness and a basic Novatec 171 worth 17.50 will do as good a job as a Chris King or Dura Ace one. Problems always come from rear hubs

BenderRodriguez

ugo.santalucia wrote:

the same happens to all alloy freehubs with Shimano splines though... including Hope, Novatec, Chris King etc...The solution is to use a cassette with multiple carriers rather than single sprockets.

The issue I had was not related to the way the sprockets on Shimano splined hubs can dig into the alloy of the freewheel body. As I said, it was a problem with the seating for the pawls inside the hub. I haven't had a similar problem with Campag hubs, perhaps because the alloy is a little harder and because the indent for the pawl is deeper.

majormantra

ugo.santalucia wrote:

FatBobSlim wrote:

If you want Dura Ace buy only the rear... 159 pounds at Evans... then you can buy a cheap front hub... front hubs are much of a muchness and a basic Novatec 171 worth 17.50 will do as good a job as a Chris King or Dura Ace one. Problems always come from rear hubs

Mismatched hubs?! I need to go lie down.

FatBobSlim

Haha! How have I managed to go from considering a £75 pair of Miche hubs to a £160 Dura Ace hub in the space of a few hours?! In all seriousness I think I'll limit my choices to the original ones for now. I'm indecisive enough as it is. I'm not sure I could do the Dura Ace's justice either!!

So going back onto the sad part now! Would the dark grey archetypes look ok on the sky blue frame or would black look better.

smidsy

MajorMantra wrote:

Mismatched hubs?! I need to go lie down.

That made me laugh out load like a mad thing

smidsy

FatBobSlim wrote:

Smidsy, are you just trying to help me spend my money!

Me...as if....I mean....reallly!

I have learned from experience that to buy cheap is to buy twice.

Now don't get me wrong there is a middle ground (Chris King are just silly) but Hope and DA are firmly in the VFM section in my books.

majormantra

FatBobSlim wrote:

Ideally I was looking at a 28/28 build which I think is adequate for my weight/riding with the Archetypes in particular and I think Ultegra in 28's are hard to get in the UK.

I'm not aware of 6800 hubs existing at all in 28h. The new disc version does, but not the pure road one.

FatBobSlim

Yep, I agree with the buying quality mantra. You've persuaded me to think again about the Hopes, maybe silver hubs, silver spokes and dark grey archetypes. Decisions, decisions!

cycleclinic

Ultegra 28H hubs in 6600 form can be had from the U.S I have a pair on the shelf.

Miche hubs are something I use week in week out never had a problem with any of them I would have heard something by know with the number I have used. There will always be one hub regardless of the manufacturer that will give a problem. Miche are no more prone to it than shimano or DT Swiss. Making judgements on a sample of one is never going to be representative. Miche hubs can come in 24H fronts too and in my experience are a very reliable hub.

Hope hubs are of course nice and so are DT Swiss 350 but you can't buy the 350's but my favourite high end hubs are Campagnolo Record (can come with a shimano freehub but 32H only) or Dura Ace hubs. With both of those hubs there really is nothing better imo.

As you are thinking a 28 spoke rear wheel and there is no reason why that won't work, a 24 spoke front would be fine. The front wheel never needs as many spokes as the rear so if you can go lower on the front then do so.

The grey archetype are a very dark grey and look perfect with ultegra 6800 hubs and silver spokes. If using black hubs then why not use a black rim. Also silver hubs look fine with the dark grey rims.

FatBobSlim

Thanks guys for all your input. It's made me think a bit more about what I want/really need. I am going to wait a couple of weeks to find out whether there is any flexibility in my budget (it's nearly bonus time!) and then may even be in touch about a build (Ugo/Malcolm). Thanks again.