Integrated headset question.
Hi, I have a FSA integrated headset I bought for my Monoc Quatro pro frame and I am now thinking I have the wrong bearing size! The diameter and angle are fine but when I put the whole thing together the top bearing works loose out of the 45deg angled bit which obviously makes the whole steerer wobble around! I assume I need a taller bearing so when the upper compression ring and cover goes on it must clamp it in place? Please bear in mind this is the first headset I have ever fit :oops:
The bearing I have says the height is 6.5mm but from the top of the compression ring to the top of the upper cover there is probably a 4mm gap? Also the bearing says 41mm diameter which my frame also is but yet there is probably a 1mm difference between the bearing and frame but I assume this is about right?
The bearing I have says the height is 6.5mm but from the top of the compression ring to the top of the upper cover there is probably a 4mm gap? Also the bearing says 41mm diameter which my frame also is but yet there is probably a 1mm difference between the bearing and frame but I assume this is about right?
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So with the fork fitted?"Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
Parktools :?:SheldonBrown0 -
Are you sure it's not a zero-stack / internal headset (not integrated)?
Do you have a photo with the bearing removed - so we can get a good look at the 'ledge' at the bottom of the 6.5 mm ?0 -
nicklouse wrote:So with the fork fitted?
With the fork fitted it has lots of play in the steerer, I assume this is due to the fact that the bearing and compression ring inside the head tube is not tall enough so the gap I pictured won't allow compression which holds the bearing in place for a tight fit?
I think I confirmed this with adding one of my carbon spacers to the top of the bearing then adding the cover and forks which then held it all together tight. I think the bottom bearing would also need the same but the 1 1/18 spacers I have wont push that far down the steerer as it is tapered.0 -
When you say there's 1mm difference from the bearing diameter and the shell, do you mean 1mm around the edge so that the diameter is about 2mm different? If so, if it could be 3mm (1.5mm around the edge, then it does sound like you need an internal/zero-stack headset rather than integrated.
FSA zero stack have a bored shell diamter of 44mm and the depth of the bore will be about 10mm. With an internal/zero-stack headset you pop a bearing race into the bored shell and the bearing sits in that.0 -
g00se wrote:Are you sure it's not a zero-stack / internal headset (not integrated)?
Do you have a photo with the bearing removed - so we can get a good look at the 'ledge' at the bottom of the 6.5 mm ?
It is an integrated headset it has a sticker on the front of the frame which says integrated Aheadset.
Top...
Bottom...
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g00se wrote:When you say there's 1mm difference from the bearing diameter and the shell, do you mean 1mm around the edge so that the diameter is about 2mm different? If so, if it could be 3mm (1.5mm around the edge, then it does sound like you need an internal/zero-stack headset rather than integrated.
FSA zero stack have a bored shell diamter of 44mm and the depth of the bore will be about 10mm. With an internal/zero-stack headset you pop a bearing race into the bored shell and the bearing sits in that.
it is only 1mm when the bearing is pushed right to one side so it is only 1mm in total, i think this would be normal looking at it but it's the height that seems to be the issue.0 -
Yup - the fact that there's paint on headtube faces makes it look like it's not internal/ZS (sorry for the bum steer). As they would normally be faced for internal.
According to the park tools website, the 45deg cut in the headtube defines the bearing placement on integrated headsets - the face isn't involved so doesn't need to be machined.
The 1mm play still doesn't sound right. If you look at the specs for IS41 at the bottom of http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-hel ... -standards , then there should only be 0.1mm of play.
IS42 is the Campag hiddenset but I don't think that's much deeper.
I think it might be time for the bike shop....0 -
g00se wrote:Yup - the fact that there's paint on headtube faces makes it look like it's not internal/ZS (sorry for the bum steer). As they would normally be faced for internal.
According to the park tools website, the 45deg cut in the headtube defines the bearing placement on integrated headsets - the face isn't involved so doesn't need to be machined.
The 1mm play still doesn't sound right. If you look at the specs for IS41 at the bottom of http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-hel ... -standards , then there should only be 0.1mm of play.
IS42 is the Campag hiddenset but I don't think that's much deeper.
I think it might be time for the bike shop....
Yes I think it is, after watching other videos online i'm quite supprised just how deep the 6.5mm bearing sits in the headtube! looking at the videos the bearing should protrude slightly above the headtube surface not be a few mm below.0 -
There are some more specs for the headtube prep dimensions here: http://www.cube.eu/uploads/media/Headse ... ide_01.pdf
Your's looks a bit odd.
Do you have some vernier callipers to measure the internal diameters and depth?0 -
Just used the "waybackmachine" internet archive to have a look at the old monoc.co.uk website. There's an image of the spare monoc headets. They're described as cane creek so that'll be IS41 - but it looks like they have quite big spacers/races added:
http://web.archive.org/web/200502060835 ... adsets.htm0 -
Monoc distribution was handled by Millenium Cycle Products in Preston now trading as Flandriabikes.comMake mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..0
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OK, bored at work so digging a bit further...
If you look closely at the image above, I think you can make out the text on the bearing as
TH Industries 1-1/8" AC?
and then it looks like
36-36
TH Ind is FSA. if you look at the Cube link above to the Cane Creek manual, the TH Ind bearings that are 36 36 need a deeper cut.
I've found a link to an FSA 36/36 headset that has a slightly wider bore at 41.6, has a deeper cut and longer seals that look identical to the ones in the Monoc headset image. The shorter FSA headcap looks identical too (H2052A). Check page 28:
http://www.vanbokhoven.de/downloads/anl ... e_2010.pdf
If you can find a way to confim the inside angle is 36 and not 45, it might confirm it.
The No.9M/TH0 -
g00se wrote:OK, bored at work so digging a bit further...
If you look closely at the image above, I think you can make out the text on the bearing as
TH Industries 1-1/8" AC?
and then it looks like
36-36
TH Ind is FSA. if you look at the Cube link above to the Cane Creek manual, the TH Ind bearings that are 36 36 need a deeper cut.
I've found a link to an FSA 36/36 headset that has a slightly wider bore at 41.6, has a deeper cut and longer seals that look identical to the ones in the Monoc headset image. The shorter FSA headcap looks identical too (H2052A). Check page 28:
http://www.vanbokhoven.de/downloads/anl ... e_2010.pdf
If you can find a way to confim the inside angle is 36 and not 45, it might confirm it.
The No.9M/TH
Unfortunetly I don't have anything to measure the angle so it looks like I will have to take it to my lbs.
I will have a look at them links this evening it could be that the link you sent is the headset I can use fingers crossed!!
I didn't realise such a small part could cause so much hassle, I have everything else to build it up into a good bike to.0 -
Sounds like you just need a spacer or washer on the top.0
