FD replacement

raymond82

Hi there!

I've written about this before but I can't get my front FD to work properly, it either refuses to shift up or it throws the chain off. I was given some good advice here the last time and improved things a bit but I'm not satisfied so I was thinking of going for a new one.

My current FD is a Sram force, shifters are the very first Rivals, chainrings 46/36 Sram apex. Since I read that Shimano FDs work a bit better than the Sram ones (and they're cheaper too) I was thinking of getting a Shimano one, now I'm doubting between the CX70 which is especially designed for smaller chainrings or a 105 which is a third cheaper. Any ideas on what would be the best option considering the 46/36 setup and compatibility with the Sram chainrings? I've messed around a lot, tried the FD in every imaginable position but I don't get it to work, is it likely that a Shimano FD will work better?

NANS295

Have you thought about going to your LBS and asking them to set it up for you rather than spending money on a new one. They may even be willing to show you how to set it up correctly.

NANS295

Also I don't think mixing sram levers and shimano derailleurs is a good idea as the pull ratio of sram and shimano levers are different. I think it can be done but is hard to set up.
Have you had a look at the Sram technical manual, it is actually quiet good and if you follow it I don't see why you shouldn't get good shifting.

wishitwasallflat

I tried this with Apex shifters and 105 FD and it didn't work - after many hours searching I found out that SRAM used to be compatible with Shim FDs but Shim changed the pull ratio (as far as I remember it changed from 105 5700 onwards) and they aren't anymore.

cervelofan

Older SRAM front mechs are notoriously difficult to get shifting perfectly Check the crank and chainring bolts are properly torqued as they can be overlooked. The height / angle, high low and cable tension of the FD have to absolutely spot on to work well but it can be done.

If you are changing then the yawl 10 speed mech works well. You get a ghost shift coming down form the big ring but the pick up is much quicker.

raymond82

Thanks for all the replies, good thing I checked here first before buying the Shimano FD!!

NANS295 wrote:

Have you thought about going to your LBS and asking them to set it up for you rather than spending money on a new one. They may even be willing to show you how to set it up correctly.

Maybe that's what I'll do in the end but over here LBS are expensive and they have long waiting lists so I doubt they would do it on the spot to show me. Nevertheless I thought about it too and in the end I might have to.

wishitwasallflat wrote:

I tried this with Apex shifters and 105 FD and it didn't work - after many hours searching I found out that SRAM used to be compatible with Shim FDs but Shim changed the pull ratio (as far as I remember it changed from 105 5700 onwards) and they aren't anymore.

NANS295 wrote:

Also I don't think mixing sram levers and shimano derailleurs is a good idea as the pull ratio of sram and shimano levers are different. I think it can be done but is hard to set up.
Have you had a look at the Sram technical manual, it is actually quiet good and if you follow it I don't see why you shouldn't get good shifting.

Good to know the pull ratios in the end are not the same, I thought I had found out they were and anyway figured that for a FD it wouldn't matter too much. I'll have a look if I can find a bit more on the subject, I would like to know what older FDs I might be able to use, in case I don't want to stick with the Sram one in the end.

cervelofan wrote:

Older SRAM front mechs are notoriously difficult to get shifting perfectly Check the crank and chainring bolts are properly torqued as they can be overlooked. The height / angle, high low and cable tension of the FD have to absolutely spot on to work well but it can be done.

If you are changing then the yawl 10 speed mech works well. You get a ghost shift coming down form the big ring but the pick up is much quicker.

This is something I had thought of too since I really tried everything when it comes to cable tension etc. In then end it comes down to the settings of the limit screw I think, that's why I thought an FD with a better shape or whatever might work better. Do you have any idea why shifting is so difficult with the old FDs? I have to say though that the FD is not as old as the shifters, I think it's from 2010.

Anyway I think I'll keep trying for a while, it is true that from time to time I have managed to get it right. If it really doesn't work out I'll take it to the LBS or try to find an old Shimano FD. I'll also look for the Yaw FDs but they're all Red I think so pretty expensive too...

raymond82

I did a bit of googling, I find that the pull ratio of Shimano's FDs changed with the 11 speed group and that before there was a change in pull ratio with rear derailleurs. However, how much would it matter to have a slightly different pull ratio for FDs? in the end the limit screws determine how far it will move right?

Considering the new Yaw FDs, would they work with my first generation shifters? And do newer Sram FDs that do not have the Yaw technology also shift better?

wishitwasallflat

I would recccomend a Force FD they are very good so maybe youjust need a new pne, Also your source about Shim changing only with 11 speed isn't what I found when I was trying to work out why my new 105 wouldn't work. Sorry I can't remember where else I saw it but it is in the Q&A on wiggle for band on 105 FD but I did also find it verified somewhere else. It's a few months ago now, best part of a year andI can't remember exactly where.

raymond82

wishitwasallflat wrote:

I would recccomend a Force FD they are very good so maybe youjust need a new pne, Also your source about Shim changing only with 11 speed isn't what I found when I was trying to work out why my new 105 wouldn't work. Sorry I can't remember where else I saw it but it is in the Q&A on wiggle for band on 105 FD but I did also find it verified somewhere else. It's a few months ago now, best part of a year andI can't remember exactly where.

I found your remark in the Q&A at wiggle and I also found another webpage where it is mentioned that the pull ratio has changed between the 5600 and 5700 105 mechs. It's somewhat confusing though, I also stumbled upon a comment about using the 5700 mech with Sram shifters but since it didn't work for you I'm not gonna try.

The new Force mech with Yaw technology is actually not that expensive, I might go for that. Apparently the Yaw works with normal Red shifters so I guess it also works with my ancient Rival ones.

raymond82

I read in multiple places that 10 speed Sram red is compatible with the 11 speed Yaw derailleurs, is there any reason to assume my old rival shifters would not be compatible? I might go for the Sram Force Yaw derailleur, I found it for only 47 euro (39 pounds).

edten

Have you ever managed to set up a front mech correctly (other than by chance)? If not you're probably just going through the learning curve of a home mechanic. If this is the case pay to get a LBS to do it and while they do it get them to show you how to do it. IME most mechanics are more than happy to do this if they're not too busy.

raymond82

edten wrote:

Have you ever managed to set up a front mech correctly (other than by chance)? If not you're probably just going through the learning curve of a home mechanic. If this is the case pay to get a LBS to do it and while they do it get them to show you how to do it. IME most mechanics are more than happy to do this if they're not too busy.

To be honest: no! I used to have a 42t outer ring and also then I never managed to get the shifting right because the mech couldn't be low enough. When I purchased the Force mech things actually improved because the cage is relatively short and now I changed to a 46t outer ring, mainly because I thought it would improve shifting. I've tried everything and spent a lot of time trying to fix it, watched many video's etc but I don't manage. Maybe it's a better idea to let a professional mechanic look at it but because I came across many threads with complaints about Sram front mech shifting and because I never have trouble setting up the rear derailleur I want to keep trying myself...

StillGoing

SRAM yaw22 FDs are not compatible with SRAM 10 speed shifters. I've tried it and it doesn't work well. If you can find a SRAM yaw 10 speed then it will work, but your standard Force FD just needs setting up correctly. Sometimes they can be a bit baffling, but there is a logical reason why things are or aren't happening. Have a look at the various set up videos done by SRAM and start with a fresh mind.

raymond82

philthy3 wrote:

SRAM yaw22 FDs are not compatible with SRAM 10 speed shifters. I've tried it and it doesn't work well. If you can find a SRAM yaw 10 speed then it will work, but your standard Force FD just needs setting up correctly. Sometimes they can be a bit baffling, but there is a logical reason why things are or aren't happening. Have a look at the various set up videos done by SRAM and start with a fresh mind.

You made me doubt again, I read in various places that it does work. However I don't want to risk it so I messed with it a bit more this morning and now the mech is at a stage where it won't shift after the clicks but with the extra pull on the shifter it sometimes overshifts but sometimes it works well. Guess I'll make do with that for a while, just have to be careful and I don't shift the front mech that often anyway. Untill I get fed up with it again, then I'm gonna take it to the LBS.

StillGoing

Make sure the shifter is set for the small chainring and disconnect the cable from the FD. Then start your adjustment to set the FD for the small chainring. Attach the cable to the FD ensuring it is taut and try changing up to the big ring. You'll need minimal turning of the adjustment screw to get it set so don't go doing full turns thinking nothing is happening.

Maxxypriest

I just put on a brand new 105-5700 FD onto my Boardman that has Sram Rival levers and it works a treat

raymond82

philthy3 wrote:

Make sure the shifter is set for the small chainring and disconnect the cable from the FD. Then start your adjustment to set the FD for the small chainring. Attach the cable to the FD ensuring it is taut and try changing up to the big ring. You'll need minimal turning of the adjustment screw to get it set so don't go doing full turns thinking nothing is happening.

This is what I've been doing, I might have been turning the screws a bit impatiently before but I've tried many times and it never really works. It's frustrating because it sounds like it shouldn't be too difficult, I would love to try once with shifters and front mech and a normal 53 or even 46 chainring all from the same group. Then at least if it doesn't work I know it's because of me and not because of the components.

Maxxypriest wrote:

I just put on a brand new 105-5700 FD onto my Boardman that has Sram Rival levers and it works a treat

OK, I couldn't resist and I ordered the CX70 front mech today, I think it might be more suitable for the 46t chainring I have than the 105. I just had to try to see if it works myself...

raymond82

The new mech came in today and it's really a huge improvement. Basically from the second I put it on, even before adjusting the limit screws it immediately shifted to the large chainring. I did have to mess around with the cable tension and the limit screws for a while (longer than with the Sram one, could that have to do with a different pull ratio?) but now it works perfectly. The cage of the Shimano mech seems to be a bit narrower and has a different shape than the Sram one, of which the inner plate of the cage was totally flat. I also have te feeling the Sram cage might have bent a little, I'll visit the LBS to ask if that's true.

Anyway, I'm very excited because I've had shifting issues with this bike ever since I changed my double to a compact with a <50 chainring, which was in 2009... Now I can finally quickly shift to the big ring on climbs for my attacks like Riis used to do!