Richmond Park in wet conditions

jpiers

Hi, just wondered how people are finding riding anti-clockwise in Richmond Park when it's wet, I saw someone slide out on the Richmond Gate roundabout recently. Specifically though I was wondering about doing the Bloomfeld Hill descent in the wet?

I saw the London Dynamo Park riders going down that descent in the wet, at quite some speed last Saturday morning. I had an 'off' recently on the Horton roundabouts, near Epsom, if anybody knows them, and it was only slightly damp so am now pretty nervous about cornering in the wet. I have been told by my LBS that those roundabouts regularly are pretty slippery due to diesel being dropped by buses, so it could've been due to that.

Does anyone have any views on Richmond Park in the wet and specifically Bloomfeld Hill descent in the wet and how safe it is? Do people generally brake when descending in the wet to force the tire onto the road or is it better to slow beforehand and not use the brakes at all as I find on a descent like Bloomfeld it's pretty fast if you don't use the brakes whilst going down it?

Cheers

housemunkey

I've seen a whole pack of Dynamos go down on that decent in the wet, a few needed ambulance treatment. IMO it is pretty sketchy and you should treat it with a big dollop of caution and respect. Just keep your speed in check and stay away from the front brake. Apart from that not much to report except the ascent of dark hill can be pretty slippy under the trees so it sometimes help to stay seated to avoid wheelspin.

Safe ridin'

diy

Braking increases your demand on grip. If you are at the point where you need to slow down due to grip, its probably already too late for you to brake. Acceleration, braking and cornering all place demands on the tyres for grip, if you are close to the limit and need more of one then you better be ready to give up another to compensate. There is a phrase in motorcycle training - slow in fast out and it transfers pretty well. Do all your braking early before the bend and you'll be able to get on the power earlier on the exit as you are not fighting for braking and cornering force at the same time. Obviously we don't have the ability to power out of bends in quite the same way, but the physics still work.

You can only increase grip through heavy braking as the weight transfers to the front giving you an increased braking area. However, the difference on bicycle is tiny compared to say a motorbike where the tyre is around 5 times wider and the contact point can be increased from say around 30-40% on a cycle under heavy braking to 2-400% on a motorcycle.

As a general comment on the London Dynamos, while they are a very large club and no doubt have some extremely safe, courteous riders, they have more than their fair share of idiots. My advice is to give them as much space as you can even if they don't return the courtesy.

marcusjb

Richmond park in the wet is fairly similar to pretty much anywhere else in the wet.

Broomfield descent catches many people out, wet or dry. It has a tricky camber that will drag you into the verge if you don't know what you're doing. Stay central and don't go faster than your bike handling skills.

If the weather is mucky, then I tend to use my fixed wheel in the park.

Riding in the wet, wherever, is a skill that has to be learnt through experience.

bernithebiker

Several years ago now, I dropped my Ducati on the last roundabout at Richmond gate. It was wet, but there must have been diesel or something, as I didn't even get a chance to kick it back up.

As DIY said, get the braking done first*, enter the bend at a safe speed, then accelerate out.

*you can brake really quite hard in the wet with the front if you're straight - just be progressive and keep your weight forward-ish.

cougie

Sounds like the park is a safer place for people who cant cope with bends and hills and rain ?

roger_merriman

I like the RP in the wet, it can be fairly quiet and on the whole the few other riders tend be on the ball etc.

Richmond Gate Roundabout can be a bit greasy and Broomfield is anti cambered but you do have to approach with too much speed to get in to trouble with both.

homercles

I think the park's OK when it's properly wet, or has been raining a decent amount in the few days before a ride. It's at its most dangerous when there hasn't been much/ any rain but the surface still has a dewy/ greasy covering (generally happens on cold/ misty mornings) - the combination of road dirt that hasn't been washed away and a greasy slick covering can catch folk out. But as a few have said already, take it easy, know your limits, try to pick clean lines and it's fine.

ugo.santalucia

marcusjb wrote:

Richmond park in the wet is fairly similar to pretty much anywhere else in the wet.

This pretty much sums up the thread... NEXT!

rpherts

I'm surprised more people don't crash into the huge piles of Strava segments strewn over the Park.

aroyalnit

Ice is more of a worry in the park this time of year...yesterday I saw an unlucky guy take a tumble on the flat between Robin Hood gate and Roehampton gate. Just a patch of black ice I luckily missed as I overtook him just before the patch.

I took it a bit careful through the park afterwards!

marcusjb

rpherts wrote:

I'm surprised more people don't crash into the huge piles of Strava segments strewn over the Park.

They do rather clutter the place up for sure!

hopak

Didn't the novice rider Cancellara fall off at the Star and Garter corner?
And it wasn't even wet!!
It must be a death trap that Richmond Park, and not only for old deer !

Moonbiker

You might need theese?

TakeTurns

It's fine in the wet. I've taken that bend at 40mph several times no issues.

Moonbiker

Didn't somone get a fine before for breaking the 20mph speed limit?

dyrlac

2 issues this time of year: ice tends to stick around (or unexpectedly appear on subsequent laps even if it doesn't feel like its gotten colder) on the false flat up Sawyer's Hill on the left side of the road. Seen way too many offs there. I've always been skittish down Broomfield. First time I went down it a couple of dudes went down hard 100m in front of me. So I don't put down the hammer until I'm at the apex of the turn.

ugo.santalucia

Dyrlac wrote:

(or unexpectedly appear on subsequent laps even if it doesn't feel like its gotten colder) on the false flat up Sawyer's Hill on the left side of the road. Seen way too many offs there.

RIchmond Park is notorious for being one of the few spots on earth where the phase diagram of water is somehow distorted... it has to do with the alignment of the constellations... Stonehenge kind of stuff.
At the summer solstice there are plenty of hippies going there with their willy out to observe the formation of summer crystals of ice of a pale shade of green

upperoilcan

Richmond park appeals to me,I will come see what all the fuss is about in the warmer months.

I'm sure there is a Duathlon held there too.

mattsaw

upperoilcan wrote:

I'm sure there is a Duathlon held there too.

I have no idea why someone would want to ruin a good bike ride..

jpiers

Cheers for all the thoughts on this guys, really helpful - especially about the braking, or rather the need to avoid it during actual cornering.

Good point about watching out for when there hasn't been much/ any rain but the surface still having a dewy/ greasy covering - cheers homercles, that's what happened when I had my off on Horton roundabouts.

Any views about best tyres for durability and wet weather grip? I'm currently riding Conti Gatorskin for commuting and puncture resistance but am wondering whether conti 4 season are just as good for puncture resistance but better for grip? In summer use conti GP 4000S for really good grip.

Any views guys?

Cheers and ride safe.

diy

Just to comment on the speed limit. People have been fined for exceeding the 20mph speed limit in Richmond park because they simply assumed the prosecutor had done his research when bringing the case and therefore accepted the allegation. If a person pleads guilty to an offence the court has very little power to review the details of the charge and may typically only ignore a guilty plea if the individual appears to have a significant impairment regarding the charge or process. i.e. the accused is a nutter.

In reality the 20mph speed limit was (I'm guessing unintentionally) revoked in 2010 when the limit was updated. The rewording used the same definition as the Road Traffic Act and thus tightened the scope of the applicability. i.e. motor vehicles.

Road Traffic Act still applies though since its a public right of way, so they'd probably argue dangerous cycling. But much harder to prove. lastly, there is the whole argument of type approval for any kind of speed measuring device other than timing between two points. I very much doubt that your typical "hairdryer" type speed camera could give accurate readings on a bike due to the absence of a decent reflective surface.

TakeTurns

jpiers wrote:

Any views about best tyres for durability and wet weather grip?

Michelin pro 4's.

diy

Yep the pro 4s are good - I have a set of the Enduros on my winter wheels and despite the lack of tread, they are good in the wet. They are however, not a patch on the GP4000s in terms of feel and a little heavy (both weight and feel).

Will certainly feel like an upgrade on Ultra race though.