Looking at putting a 34 cassette on my road bike

moonwrasse

Got a road trip planned that has nearly 60,000ft of climbing in 9 days. Some days are 10000 ft days.

I am looking to put a 34-11 cassette on to help on the long hills. My rear mech will only take 30 tooth. I have a 6700 gs rear mech on atm. Already running a compact chainset

What are my options?
xt m772 rear mech? and fit a cable adjuster on the down tube?

rolf_f

Not sure what the cable adjuster would be for - I presume the XT mech has it's own adjuster??

Anyway, I'd have a big think about what you need. Presumably you are getting effectively a 1:1 gearing out of this setup which is very, very low. If the climbing is UK style climbing (eg Lakeland) then that sort of gearing might certainly be handy. On the other hand, Alpine climbs tend to be a lot less steep. If you can't get up those in reasonable comfort with a 30 tooth rear, then I suspect you'll have a miserable trip - if you are finding it that hard then all the ultra low gearing will do is prolong the agony. I'm not saying that the 34 isn't the solution - just that if it is then personally, I'd be planning a different trip!

It all depends on the routes - 10,000 feet in a day at 6-7% max is very different to 10,000 feet in a day with a few hundred metres of 25% thrown in!

littledove44

Actually, it's nothing to do with where you ride. It's all to do with your own strength and the cadence you are comfortable with.

I run a 50/34, 34-11 setup on my road bike and love it. It enable me to keep up my favourite cadence of above 80 up a lot of places where my friends have to grind it out. They always moan and tell me how I have made it too easy for myself.

I have a Shimano 105 rear mech. Shimano said the 34-11 was not compatible. They are wrong. Maybe it's worth just trying it.

rolf_f

littledove44 wrote:

Actually, it's nothing to do with where you ride. It's all to do with your own strength and the cadence you are comfortable with.

You're missing the point. Of course it is down to your strength and preferred cadence but you cannot ignore the nature of the terrain and that is down to where you ride. Riding for an hour up a col on a gentle gradient is not the same as riding up Hardknott pass for 20 minutes. I certainly think picking the right gear for the terrain is worth doing and I have no time for the attitude that eg nobody needs more than 34-25 but there are limits. If you are ascending at 80 cadence on 34-34 you are barely doing about 6mph which for a 6% gradient is very, very slow. If you are doing 10,000 feet, then by my reckoning (which may be wrong!) then at 6% that is 30 miles of climbing. And 30 miles at 6mph is five hours just on the climbing bit. That's going to make for a long day in the saddle. In contrast, the same 34 tooth cassette ring on a 10,000 foot climbing ride in the Lakes is probably not going to slow you down at all.

shmooster

A 105 5700 will allow you to go to a 32T which might be low enough for you, as littledove44 said you might get away with 34, but you're running it out of spec so the chance of mech hitting cassette is higher.

littledove44

Rolf F wrote:

littledove44 wrote:

Actually, it's nothing to do with where you ride. It's all to do with your own strength and the cadence you are comfortable with.

You're missing the point. Of course it is down to your strength and preferred cadence but you cannot ignore the nature of the terrain and that is down to where you ride. Riding for an hour up a col on a gentle gradient is not the same as riding up Hardknott pass for 20 minutes. I certainly think picking the right gear for the terrain is worth doing and I have no time for the attitude that eg nobody needs more than 34-25 but there are limits. If you are ascending at 80 cadence on 34-34 you are barely doing about 6mph which for a 6% gradient is very, very slow. If you are doing 10,000 feet, then by my reckoning (which may be wrong!) then at 6% that is 30 miles of climbing. And 30 miles at 6mph is five hours just on the climbing bit. That's going to make for a long day in the saddle. In contrast, the same 34 tooth cassette ring on a 10,000 foot climbing ride in the Lakes is probably not going to slow you down at all.

Who said anything about 6%? Oh yes, I have realised, it was you, not the OP.

I have stuff well over 15% near my house.
According to my Strava last time I did it with my 34 I was doing 72 rpm and 9.4kph. Happy with that.
Bloke next to me at the same speed was pedalling about 60rpm in his lowest gear.

As we both say "it is down to your strength and preferred cadence".

rolf_f

littledove44 wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

littledove44 wrote:

Actually, it's nothing to do with where you ride. It's all to do with your own strength and the cadence you are comfortable with.

You're missing the point. Of course it is down to your strength and preferred cadence but you cannot ignore the nature of the terrain and that is down to where you ride. Riding for an hour up a col on a gentle gradient is not the same as riding up Hardknott pass for 20 minutes. I certainly think picking the right gear for the terrain is worth doing and I have no time for the attitude that eg nobody needs more than 34-25 but there are limits. If you are ascending at 80 cadence on 34-34 you are barely doing about 6mph which for a 6% gradient is very, very slow. If you are doing 10,000 feet, then by my reckoning (which may be wrong!) then at 6% that is 30 miles of climbing. And 30 miles at 6mph is five hours just on the climbing bit. That's going to make for a long day in the saddle. In contrast, the same 34 tooth cassette ring on a 10,000 foot climbing ride in the Lakes is probably not going to slow you down at all.

Who said anything about 6%? Oh yes, I have realised, it was you, not the OP.

I have stuff well over 15% near my house.
According to my Strava last time I did it with my 34 I was doing 72 rpm and 9.4kph. Happy with that.
Bloke next to me at the same speed was pedalling about 60rpm in his lowest gear.

Sigh.... Yes, it was me that mentioned 6%. And I mentioned that because it is a common sustained gradient in Alpine climbs. Because I was making the point that it's not just overall height climbed in one day that determines what gearing you need. Congratulations, you have 15% near your house. Have a big medal. I've got 20% near where I live. 15% gradients are all over the place here. I'll take an even bigger medal. My biggest cassette sprocket is 29* - I'll have another medal and a cake. None of this is either here nor there. Neither is your 9.4 kph. Nor the bloke next to you's 60rpm. Why? because it is all down to a combination of factors and one of those is where you are riding.

* that 13-29? I don't use it often. Only on a really, long hard day do I use it. Mostly I use a 12-27. But I converted the 13-29 to an 11-29 for the Alps. Why? Because I knew I'd want a fast gear for the descents as well as a slow one for the climbs - in the Lakes the descents aren't long so 13-29 is fine and avoids the gaps that would annoy over the undulating Lakes roads away from the big climbs. Gearing needs change according to where you are.

littledove44 wrote:

As we both say "it is down to your strength and preferred cadence".

No, I don't - I say it is down to strength, cadence and terrain.

whoof

Rode from Geneva to Nice last year and fitted a similar ratio gear 26 Chainring- 27 spocket with a Sora 9 speed rear mech. The rear mech shouldn't have been able to handle this ratio but with a bit of adjustment did. With regards to low ratio this allowed my girlfriend to ride at a comfortable pace and cadence. Passed quite a few people struggling to turn the gear and more than once they asked jokingly if we were willing to swop.

littledove44

Rolf F wrote:

littledove44 wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

littledove44 wrote:

Actually, it's nothing to do with where you ride. It's all to do with your own strength and the cadence you are comfortable with.

You're missing the point. Of course it is down to your strength and preferred cadence but you cannot ignore the nature of the terrain and that is down to where you ride. Riding for an hour up a col on a gentle gradient is not the same as riding up Hardknott pass for 20 minutes. I certainly think picking the right gear for the terrain is worth doing and I have no time for the attitude that eg nobody needs more than 34-25 but there are limits. If you are ascending at 80 cadence on 34-34 you are barely doing about 6mph which for a 6% gradient is very, very slow. If you are doing 10,000 feet, then by my reckoning (which may be wrong!) then at 6% that is 30 miles of climbing. And 30 miles at 6mph is five hours just on the climbing bit. That's going to make for a long day in the saddle. In contrast, the same 34 tooth cassette ring on a 10,000 foot climbing ride in the Lakes is probably not going to slow you down at all.

Who said anything about 6%? Oh yes, I have realised, it was you, not the OP.

I have stuff well over 15% near my house.
According to my Strava last time I did it with my 34 I was doing 72 rpm and 9.4kph. Happy with that.
Bloke next to me at the same speed was pedalling about 60rpm in his lowest gear.

Sigh.... Yes, it was me that mentioned 6%. And I mentioned that because it is a common sustained gradient in Alpine climbs. Because I was making the point that it's not just overall height climbed in one day that determines what gearing you need. Congratulations, you have 15% near your house. Have a big medal. I've got 20% near where I live. 15% gradients are all over the place here. I'll take an even bigger medal. My biggest cassette sprocket is 29* - I'll have another medal and a cake. None of this is either here nor there. Neither is your 9.4 kph. Nor the bloke next to you's 60rpm. Why? because it is all down to a combination of factors and one of those is where you are riding.

* that 13-29? I don't use it often. Only on a really, long hard day do I use it. Mostly I use a 12-27. But I converted the 13-29 to an 11-29 for the Alps. Why? Because I knew I'd want a fast gear for the descents as well as a slow one for the climbs - in the Lakes the descents aren't long so 13-29 is fine and avoids the gaps that would annoy over the undulating Lakes roads away from the big climbs. Gearing needs change according to where you are.

littledove44 wrote:

As we both say "it is down to your strength and preferred cadence".

No, I don't - I say it is down to strength, cadence and terrain.

Sorry to carry this on, but this is not about you, not about me, and not about "sustained alpine passes" either. The OP said nothing about the Alps.

He was asking what his options were. One of those is to try a 34.

Your suggestion that going up a hill slower just prolongs the agony is absurd. Not everyone puts out 400w, is young, strong or in a hurry. Some of us enjoy taking time, and I would much rather spin up a hill and keep going than grind quickly halfway up and half to stop. If one day that means I need more than 34 I will find a way of fitting it.

The Mechanic

moonwrasse wrote:

Got a road trip planned that has nearly 60,000ft of climbing in 9 days. Some days are 10000 ft days.

I am looking to put a 34-11 cassette on to help on the long hills. My rear mech will only take 30 tooth. I have a 6700 gs rear mech on atm. Already running a compact chainset

What are my options?
xt m772 rear mech? and fit a cable adjuster on the down tube?

I wonder why some people feel the need to turn a simple technical question into world war three.

You should be able to go up to 32 teeth with an 6700 Ultegra GS rear mech. You might get away with 34. My advice is to try it and see. If it doesn't work and you want to go further, you can indeed use a MTB mech but you need to make sure it is a 9 speed one, not 10 speed. The M772 is suitable. I use a M771 on my touring bike with 6700 shifters and it works fine. I do, however, use a triple chainset so hence the need for a MTB rear mech. The 6700 shifters will not work with a Shimano 10 speed MTB mech.

With regard to an cable adjuster, I fitted a Ritchley one to mine. It just pushes into the end of the cable stop on the mech. Works a treat.

moonwrasse

The long 6% climbs I am more than happy with. The ride I will be doing will have several steep 15%-20% hills. This is why I thought fitting a bail out gear of 34.. giving me a 1:1 ratio. It would be used when needed but after possibly well needed during 3 back to back 9000-10000ft days.

I tried a 34-11 off my mtb today. Not quite enough clearance, very close and all the gears work but it rubs on the top jockey wheel. Looks like a 32 would work.

So choices are, fit a 32t cassette, find a triple 2nd hand with the shifter, mech etc or buy a 9 speed rear mech and adjuster, (the xt rear mechs no longer have adjusters on them)

Monty Dog

In terms of the original questions, an XT772 rear mech would need an inline adjuster if using a road lever - try Jagwire:
http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/GXJAGMINI/ ... e-adjuster

I fitted a triple with a 30:30 bottom gear to a friend's bike for a LEJOG ride - initially they thought they didn't need it, but were very grateful I did.

The Mechanic

moonwrasse wrote:

The long 6% climbs I am more than happy with. The ride I will be doing will have several steep 15%-20% hills. This is why I thought fitting a bail out gear of 34.. giving me a 1:1 ratio. It would be used when needed but after possibly well needed during 3 back to back 9000-10000ft days.

I tried a 34-11 off my mtb today. Not quite enough clearance, very close and all the gears work but it rubs on the top jockey wheel. Looks like a 32 would work.

So choices are, fit a 32t cassette, find a triple 2nd hand with the shifter, mech etc or buy a 9 speed rear mech and adjuster, (the xt rear mechs no longer have adjusters on them)

Have you tried adjusting the B Screw. That is to adjust the clearance between the top jockey wheel and the sprocket. Might still not work but worth a try.

bernithebiker

moonwrasse wrote:

Got a road trip planned that has nearly 60,000ft of climbing in 9 days. Some days are 10000 ft days.

I am looking to put a 34-11 cassette on to help on the long hills. My rear mech will only take 30 tooth. I have a 6700 gs rear mech on atm. Already running a compact chainset

What are my options?
xt m772 rear mech? and fit a cable adjuster on the down tube?

For this type of riding, it has to be 28 tooth MINIMUM, even for a highly competent rider, unless you love to grind.

32 is almost certainly an even better idea for your average club rider. 34 may not be worth the extra technical hassle involved; maybe consider a triple up front?

smidsy

Also consider that an 11/34 cassette will have some big jumps between sprockets. Will this hamper the bits of your ride that do not require the emergency 34 tooth? Just a thought like.

Also you are doing the classic 'defeated before you get there' thing. I do it a lot and have learned that it is as much a state of mind as it is the physical attributes that have been so vehemently discussed here.

Go with the attitude that a 30 will be a piece of pish :-)

marcusjb

You say a road trip - are you carrying any gear (clothes, even tents etc.)?

markhewitt1978

Of course the ideal solution is to go triple, but this would require a bit more investment!

moonwrasse

Coming round to the idea that a triple would be the best solution? Its the most expensive thou.

Will borrow a 11-32 to see if it will fit. Then make a decision from there.
I tried the b screw in tight and even reversed it to get a bit extra but stll not enough room

rolf_f

littledove44 wrote:

Your suggestion that going up a hill slower just prolongs the agony is absurd. Not everyone puts out 400w, is young, strong or in a hurry. Some of us enjoy taking time, and I would much rather spin up a hill and keep going than grind quickly halfway up and half to stop. If one day that means I need more than 34 I will find a way of fitting it.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I used to think until the day I found myself being beaten up a hill by a normally slower rider than me with higher gearing than I had that day; he got to the top faster than me with less effort. But I'll give in now - you'll just either deliberately or accidentally (who knows which) misinterpret this just as you do everything else I say.

Back to the OP - the 11-32 is probably the best bet. If you are maintaining 80 rpm cadence on 34-32 you are only having to manage 0.4mph more than you would at 34-34. How long are the 15-20% bits likely to be?

Another thought - how about a touring triple. They are commonly 24-28 tooth on the smaller ring. That might open up more options though whether that is likely to cause problems with the front mech is another matter.

StillGoing

Rolf F wrote:

Not sure what the cable adjuster would be for - I presume the XT mech has it's own adjuster??

Anyway, I'd have a big think about what you need. Presumably you are getting effectively a 1:1 gearing out of this setup which is very, very low. If the climbing is UK style climbing (eg Lakeland) then that sort of gearing might certainly be handy. On the other hand, Alpine climbs tend to be a lot less steep. If you can't get up those in reasonable comfort with a 30 tooth rear, then I suspect you'll have a miserable trip - if you are finding it that hard then all the ultra low gearing will do is prolong the agony. I'm not saying that the 34 isn't the solution - just that if it is then personally, I'd be planning a different trip!

It all depends on the routes - 10,000 feet in a day at 6-7% max is very different to 10,000 feet in a day with a few hundred metres of 25% thrown in!

I can fully concur with this. I'm crap at climbing and thought to make life easier I'd put a 12-32 on the rear. I normally ride around 90+ cadence so spinning isn't a problem, but the 32 I found too low a gear even on the steepest climbs. The distance gained for the effort just wasn't worth it so I went back to an 11-28. My cadence may drop significantly on the steepest climbs, but the distance gained for every revolution of the pedals is the preferred option for me plus the ratios are closer together making for a smoother transition in gears.

cycleclinic

XT 9 speed rear mech M772 in GS (medium cage form) works well with a 11-34T cassette. The b tension screw has to be adjusted to the limit to allow the chain to get onto the 34T sprocket reliably but it works. I did this for a customer who went to the alps and he like the gearing. Not to my taste but I am not him.

As with all things like this adivse is subjective you have to just try and if you don't like the result buy a different cassette, it is the only way you will find out.

desweller

An 11-34 is all well and good, but these types of back blocks usually have a fairly conventional spacing from gears 1 to 9 and then a big 'pie-plate' as a bail out gear.

If it's within your budget then look at a triple. Doubly so if you are going to be hauling luggage as well.

littledove44

DesWeller wrote:

An 11-34 is all well and good, but these types of back blocks usually have a fairly conventional spacing from gears 1 to 9 and then a big 'pie-plate' as a bail out gear.

If it's within your budget then look at a triple. Doubly so if you are going to be hauling luggage as well.

No pie on my 11-34.
Actually it's 34, 30, 26, 23, 21, 19, 17, 15, 13, 11

Moonbiker

It does just look wrong somehow though :roll:

styxd

philthy3 wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

Not sure what the cable adjuster would be for - I presume the XT mech has it's own adjuster??

Anyway, I'd have a big think about what you need. Presumably you are getting effectively a 1:1 gearing out of this setup which is very, very low. If the climbing is UK style climbing (eg Lakeland) then that sort of gearing might certainly be handy. On the other hand, Alpine climbs tend to be a lot less steep. If you can't get up those in reasonable comfort with a 30 tooth rear, then I suspect you'll have a miserable trip - if you are finding it that hard then all the ultra low gearing will do is prolong the agony. I'm not saying that the 34 isn't the solution - just that if it is then personally, I'd be planning a different trip!

It all depends on the routes - 10,000 feet in a day at 6-7% max is very different to 10,000 feet in a day with a few hundred metres of 25% thrown in!

I can fully concur with this. I'm crap at climbing and thought to make life easier I'd put a 12-32 on the rear. I normally ride around 90+ cadence so spinning isn't a problem, but the 32 I found too low a gear even on the steepest climbs. The distance gained for the effort just wasn't worth it so I went back to an 11-28. My cadence may drop significantly on the steepest climbs, but the distance gained for every revolution of the pedals is the preferred option for me plus the ratios are closer together making for a smoother transition in gears.

I agree, 34-28 is a very easy gear. If you're climbing 20% hills then you'll be out of the saddle I'd have though. 34-28 just feels a bit to spinny for me out of the saddle.

As you can see below, a 34 looks daft, and you also get those annoying gaps between gears. My advice would be a a 27 or 28/12.

littledove44 wrote:

DesWeller wrote:

An 11-34 is all well and good, but these types of back blocks usually have a fairly conventional spacing from gears 1 to 9 and then a big 'pie-plate' as a bail out gear.

If it's within your budget then look at a triple. Doubly so if you are going to be hauling luggage as well.

No pie on my 11-34.
Actually it's 34, 30, 26, 23, 21, 19, 17, 15, 13, 11

mercia_man

Treat with scepticism pronouncements on whether a wide range cassette "looks wrong" or comments by people who say 11-28 is fine for them so it must also be fine for you. We are all different and you need to fit the gearing that suits you and the terrain you will be covering. There is nothing wimpish about wanting low gears for back-to-back days of hard climbing. Even Contador has been known to use 11-32 and you will be on a heavier bike than his and no doubt carrying more stuff.

It sounds to me that the advice from the mechanic and thecycleclinic is sensible. Plenty of people have made an 11-32 cassette work with your gs rear mech judging by a quick search on the internet so that would seem to be the easiest and cheapest solution. I would personally prefer a 12-32 cassette as it would give me closer ratios at the top end rather than a top gear I would only use as a downhill overdrive.

The difference in bottom gear with an 11-34 compared with 11-32 is very slight and probably not worth the hassle of buying an MTB rear mech. From memory, you need a nine-speed mech to be compatible because the new 10-speeds have a different cable pull.

As others have said, a triple chainset would give you the best spread of gears. You could even replace the 30-tooth inner ring on a road triple for a 24, 26 or 28 ring (they will bolt straight on). But the cost of new shifters, chainset, mechs and chain would be huge.

Another possibility, which is just starting to appear on some touring and expedition bikes, is to use an MTB double chainset such as a 44-28. I think that would work with your existing mechs and would give you a very low 1:1 bottom gear with an 11-28 cassette.

itboffin

Have you considered one of these? http://www.wiggle.co.uk/sram-rival-climbers-kit-wifli/

littledove44

Mercia Man wrote:

Treat with scepticism pronouncements on whether a wide range cassette "looks wrong" or comments by people who say 11-28 is fine for them so it must also be fine for you. We are all different and you need to fit the gearing that suits you and the terrain you will be covering. There is nothing wimpish about wanting low gears for back-to-back days of hard climbing. Even Contador has been known to use 11-32 and you will be on a heavier bike than his and no doubt carrying more stuff.

It sounds to me that the advice from the mechanic and thecycleclinic is sensible. Plenty of people have made an 11-32 cassette work with your gs rear mech judging by a quick search on the internet so that would seem to be the easiest and cheapest solution. I would personally prefer a 12-32 cassette as it would give me closer ratios at the top end rather than a top gear I would only use as a downhill overdrive.

The difference in bottom gear with an 11-34 compared with 11-32 is very slight and probably not worth the hassle of buying an MTB rear mech. From memory, you need a nine-speed mech to be compatible because the new 10-speeds have a different cable pull.

As others have said, a triple chainset would give you the best spread of gears. You could even replace the 30-tooth inner ring on a road triple for a 24, 26 or 28 ring (they will bolt straight on). But the cost of new shifters, chainset, mechs and chain would be huge.

Another possibility, which is just starting to appear on some touring and expedition bikes, is to use an MTB double chainset such as a 44-28. I think that would work with your existing mechs and would give you a very low 1:1 bottom gear with an 11-28 cassette.

The nice thing about the 11-34 is that you can just fit it and try it. Change nothing and see if you like it. They are less than £30.

Yes, there are some people who think it looks funny, but I am yet to meet one. Most people can't even tell just by looking. Anyway, who cares.

I can tell you for sure though that walking up a hill looks a lot more stupid. Personally I find the 6% difference between the 32 and the 34 worth having. You may not, but heaving myself up a 17% hill this morning, in my lowest hear at 10 beats less than my MHR I was glad of it.

mercia_man

littledove44 wrote:

The nice thing about the 11-34 is that you can just fit it and try it. Change nothing and see if you like it. They are less than £30.

Yes, there are some people who think it looks funny, but I am yet to meet one. Most people can't even tell just by looking. Anyway, who cares.

I can tell you for sure though that walking up a hill looks a lot more stupid. Personally I find the 6% difference between the 32 and the 34 worth having. You may not, but heaving myself up a 17% hill this morning, in my lowest hear at 10 beats less than my MHR I was glad of it.

I quite agree about the benefits of low gears. But the OP has already tried to fit an 11-34 to his bike and his mech won't take it. That's why I think an 11-32 or 12-32 is his best bet. To use an 11-34, he would need to fork out extra money for an MTB mech. And he would have to make sure it's compatible with his shifters. There have been several technical articles in the CTC mag recently about people buying modern Shimano MTB mechs which don't have the correct cable pull for road STI shifters.

rolf_f

itboffin wrote:

Have you considered one of these? http://www.wiggle.co.uk/sram-rival-climbers-kit-wifli/

What - a cassette, chain and med cage rear mech in an expensive and not very fancy box?! I'd want ribbons on it for that price!

That's one classy piece of marketing!