New to clipless; feel like I am pushing forward and down...

dilatory

I got back into cycling about 6 months ago, on a hardtail mountain bike. After a few 40-50mile Saturday morning rides on back roads I figured I should take the roadie plunge. Have to say, I'm loving it...

Anyway, about a week ago I upgraded from the awful cage clip things and got myself some clipless (went for SPD, as I commute too and figured it'd be much easier to quickly clip in and for a cross-over with the MTB). I feel like when I am pedalling hard I am almost pushing forward slightly as well as down. I've never ridden clipless before, only flats so not sure if this is proper technique or me just being lazy or a poor bike fit etc?

crankycrank

As long as your foot position is comfortable for you that is the most important thing. With cages it's easier to let your feet find their own comfortable position since you can move them so you may want to just emulate this position with your clipless. Also, clipless just feel weird at first to most people but after awhile you tend not to think about it so much and it will become more clear if your cleats need adjusting.

diamonddog

It sounds as if your shoes are a bit big and your foot is moving about in them as you push.

dilatory

I don't think it's the shoes, they fit fine. I've been on the turbo and I think it's just a new sensation, where I would normally have a whole pedal's worth of grip pushing, I've got this small clip and there's 0 chance of it moving, so I feel as I push forward.

crannman

i had a similar probleb only had my spd 2month think its just a matter of getting used to them im more confident now i just relax

ai_1

dilatory wrote:

I got back into cycling about 6 months ago, on a hardtail mountain bike. After a few 40-50mile Saturday morning rides on back roads I figured I should take the roadie plunge. Have to say, I'm loving it...

Anyway, about a week ago I upgraded from the awful cage clip things and got myself some clipless (went for SPD, as I commute too and figured it'd be much easier to quickly clip in and for a cross-over with the MTB). I feel like when I am pedalling hard I am almost pushing forward slightly as well as down. I've never ridden clipless before, only flats so not sure if this is proper technique or me just being lazy or a poor bike fit etc?

With clipless you're now attached tot he pedal. This means you can pedal exactly as you did with flats/cages if you like (i.e. pushing forward and down) but you can also apply power throughout the rest of the stroke because your feet will no longer part company from the pedal. You'll still produce most power at the front of the stroke but can drag the pedal along the bottom of the stroke and pull up the back too if you wish. I think most people will agree that pedaling a smooth circle is the ideal. I only consciously concentrate on a drag or pull when I'm trying to rest my legs for a few moments by shifting the load. If you just started using the clipless pedals it's probably too early to worry about how you're pedaling and look at where you've got the cleats. As long as you've got the cleats positioned correctly you should be able to pedal exactly as you did previously.

dennisn

Is there another direction to push pedals? :? Backwards and up doesn't sound very feasible or useful.

ai_1

dennisn wrote:

Is there another direction to push pedals? :? Backwards and up doesn't sound very feasible or useful.

I think you're wrong about that. When you're clipped in you can produce some power around most of the rotation.
Also, when you're very tired at the end of a day in the saddle it can be useful engage a different set of muscles for brief stints by "dragging" the pedal backwards at the bottom of the rotation and/or pulling it up at the back.
I think it was Lemond (feel free to correct me) who described the backwards motion as similar to scraping dog sh!t off your shoe.
I think any good efficient pedal stroke will apply pressure to cranks across as much of the rotation as possible.

dennisn

Ai_1 wrote:

dennisn wrote:

Is there another direction to push pedals? :? Backwards and up doesn't sound very feasible or useful.

I think any good efficient pedal stroke will apply pressure to cranks across as much of the rotation as possible.

Well, that's your way of thinking. I don't disagree. I'm of the opinion that forcing your toes forward, toward the front of the bike, is a very optimal pedal stroke. All this talk of spinning, pulling up,etc. is nothing more than another way of pedaling and not in any way PROVEN to be the best. I would say that a good cyclist varies his pedaling style as the miles tick by.

ai_1

dennisn wrote:

Ai_1 wrote:

dennisn wrote:

Is there another direction to push pedals? :? Backwards and up doesn't sound very feasible or useful.

I think any good efficient pedal stroke will apply pressure to cranks across as much of the rotation as possible.

Well, that's your way of thinking. I don't disagree. I'm of the opinion that forcing your toes forward, toward the front of the bike, is a very optimal pedal stroke. All this talk of spinning, pulling up,etc. is nothing more than another way of pedaling and not in any way PROVEN to be the best. I would say that a good cyclist varies his pedaling style as the miles tick by.

I never claimed anything I said was "PROVEN"
I just disagreed with your comment that "Backwards and up doesn't sound very feasible or useful.". Other than that I don't really know what point you're trying to make.

andrewjoseph

dennisn wrote:

Is there another direction to push pedals? :? Backwards and up doesn't sound very feasible or useful.

ask some one legged cyclists. they find it quite useful.

simon_masterson

Ai_1 wrote:

I think any good efficient pedal stroke will apply pressure to cranks across as much of the rotation as possible.

During the upward phase, the pedal is pushing the leg upward. Pulling during this phase is anything but efficient.

dilatory

Thanks all for replies, it feels comfy as hell and no pain has manifested itself so I can only assume that cleats are set correctly. It took some time but I barely even notice I'm stuck to the pedals (I'm sure that'll be to my detriment when I finally stop my mantra of "unclip, unclip, unclip" and take a spill...)

I realise forward and down sounds a bit daft and I find it hard to explain, but it's not uncomfortable or painful or less effective, it just feels different - but so does being clipped in, and in all honesty so does being on a road bike!

ai_1

Simon Masterson wrote:

Ai_1 wrote:

I think any good efficient pedal stroke will apply pressure to cranks across as much of the rotation as possible.

During the upward phase, the pedal is pushing the leg upward. Pulling during this phase is anything but efficient.

I've heard this suggested before and I presume that in a normal pedal stroke it is the case. However it is certainly possible to pull the pedal upwards if you try. In my case I've occasionally done it when accelerating out of the saddle with tired legs. I'd be interested to see strain gauge data from the cranks for efficient pedalers to determine how much, if any, braking they typically apply with their up-going leg. Are you aware of any such data?

ai_1

dilatory wrote:

Thanks all for replies, it feels comfy as hell and no pain has manifested itself so I can only assume that cleats are set correctly. It took some time but I barely even notice I'm stuck to the pedals (I'm sure that'll be to my detriment when I finally stop my mantra of "unclip, unclip, unclip" and take a spill...)

I realise forward and down sounds a bit daft and I find it hard to explain, but it's not uncomfortable or painful or less effective, it just feels different - but so does being clipped in, and in all honesty so does being on a road bike!

All sounds good then.
The occasional embarrassing fall when coming to a stop is pretty common when people start using clipless pedals. I managed to avoid this myself but I came close a few times. Several times I unclipped the right and then leaned left as I came to rest.

Monty Dog

There was a study done recently which looked at the effects of 'pulling' on the upstroke and whether it improved power generation - the results were inconclusive. That said the greater amount of pressure that can be applied throughout the pedal cycle will engage more muscles and therefore will be more economic i.e. a stomper will tire more quickly than someone with a smoother pedal stroke for the same give power output.

Neil_aky

Someone once told me to remember when pedalling that your foot needs to go around in circles - I thought it was a stupid obvious comment at the time, but when I remember this comment when on the bike I suddenly find myself pedalling more efficiently... I don't start pulling on the pedals but I think it makes my motion smoother.

Just a thought.

Pituophis

Neil_aky wrote:

Someone once told me to remember when pedalling that your foot needs to go around in circles - I thought it was a stupid obvious comment at the time, but when I remember this comment when on the bike I suddenly find myself pedalling more efficiently... I don't start pulling on the pedals but I think it makes my motion smoother.

Just a thought.

I came from mtbing and never stood up in the climbs (keeping traction in the loose stuff and all that :roll: ) so found it unnatural on a road bike, and I had to "teach" myself to do it. I know it is purely psychological, but once I remembered to pedal in a fluid circular motion, instead of trying to put power down in every stroke it suddenly seemed much easier!
Even now when I am really struggling it takes my mind off the pain if I concentrate on "nice and smooth" :oops:

Kingy912

^^^^^ what he says. A circular pedal stroke is smoother, more efficient and helps your cadence move (slightly) faster. I recently bought some rollers and with them you basically have to pedal in a smooth 360 motion or you are literally falling off. You have to sort of train your brain to do it but it definitely helps me personally

ai_1

Raising your cadence tends to help you pedal more smoothly since you'll start bouncing around a lot if you pedal quickly with a jerky stroke.
Also try unclipping one foot and pedalling single legged. This lets you feel exactly where in the stroke you're applying power and where the other leg is normally filling in the gaps.

Manc33

Is the saddle too low or too high from swapping pedals? Get it mm perfect!

I went up a 13% incline myself tonight with my seat 1" too low by accident and it feels bizarre when its been the right height for months prior. At the right height its almost like I am "standing up on the seat" and you know when it feels right. The guide of only just being able to get your heel on the pedal when sat on the saddle always works for me.