Hand Built Wheels - £600 max. Looking for ideas

paulmon

I've spent the last few days reading through a whole host of information (rim, hub type, spoke count, lacing pattern) and my head is well and truly spinning.

I'm looking for a set of hand built wheels that will be for summer use only on my best bike. I currently have a set of Fulcrum Quattros which will be relegated to the winter bike. I'm 70KG and tend to gravitate to rides with lots of climbing. I have a couple of trips this year including a week long trip doing Route des Grandes Alpes so I'm looking for something that will handle/enhance this once in a lifetime experience.

The wheels will be going on a stealthy CAAD 10 build so aesthetically I would like them fit in with this possibly with the hubs/spoke nipples being in a different colour to break up the black.

I'm OK with a spanner so something with hubs that are easy to self service would be a bonus. The groupset will be a Shimano 11 speed.

Thanks in advance.
Paul

ugo.santalucia

A set of Dura Ace hubs is your starting point 24 front/28 rear. 17-18 mm wide (internal) rims give you excellent handling downhill... Archetype, A 23, Pacenti or Stan's Alpha are good examples

paulmon

Hi Ugo,

Thanks for the swift response. I'd looked at the Stans with the Hope RS hubs but I've read so many reports of people having tyres blowout when using them with tubes its kind of put me off. It would appear (from the interweb) that they are only reliable when used tubeless which I guess is the point but the lack of tyre choice is a real put off.

Is there much of a difference between the Dura Ace and Hope RS hubs (other than the noisy freewheel) from a performance/reliability perspective?

Cheers
Paul

ugo.santalucia

PaulMon wrote:

Hi Ugo,

Thanks for the swift response. I'd looked at the Stans with the Hope RS hubs but I've read so many reports of people having tyres blowout when using them with tubes its kind of put me off. It would appear (from the interweb) that they are only reliable when used tubeless which I guess is the point but the lack of tyre choice is a real put off.

Is there much of a difference between the Dura Ace and Hope RS hubs (other than the noisy freewheel) from a performance/reliability perspective?

Cheers
Paul

I have never heard of tyres blowing out... I use mine with tubes.
Hope are good quality CNC machined hubs with sealed bearings... DA are precision machined angular bearings of the highest quality available with a titanium free hub... in my books there is no comparison, although Hope are very nice hubs.
With your budget, I'd buy Dura Ace

paulmon

ugo.santalucia wrote:

PaulMon wrote:

Hi Ugo,

Thanks for the swift response. I'd looked at the Stans with the Hope RS hubs but I've read so many reports of people having tyres blowout when using them with tubes its kind of put me off. It would appear (from the interweb) that they are only reliable when used tubeless which I guess is the point but the lack of tyre choice is a real put off.

Is there much of a difference between the Dura Ace and Hope RS hubs (other than the noisy freewheel) from a performance/reliability perspective?

Cheers
Paul

I have never heard of tyres blowing out... I use mine with tubes.
Hope are good quality CNC machined hubs with sealed bearings... DA are precision machined angular bearings of the highest quality available with a titanium free hub... in my books there is no comparison, although Hope are very nice hubs.
With your budget, I'd buy Dura Ace

Once again thanks. Here is a thread from weight weenies that discusses the issue http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... 3&t=108048

Cheers
Paul

ugo.santalucia

Maybe a problem of the older model, which had other issues, most likely he didn't "pop" the tyre properly all along the rim, as you need to do with all tubeless ready rims

I use mine for cyclocross, so if the tyre had to blow out, they would have blown out by now

kangarouge

Another vote for Shimano Dura Ace. Excellent hubs and quiet, though if you like a load of noise when you're freewheeeling, Hopes would be good for you.

banditvic

I don't think you will encounter tyres coming off a Pacenti rim, took me 10 mins to get each tyre on,(dreading having a puncture)

styxd

I had a front tyre blow off a Stans rim, thankfully I wasnt on the bike at the time! I dont think I'd use them again, a touch too light and a touch too dear.

I think you'd be better off with Archetypes or A23s.

Checkout the White Industries hubs, they look decent.

mistertommyt

I had a set of DA 9000's built onto Archetypes (24/28) by Paolo and I don't have a bad word to say about them. They've just done 1400 miles in Oz on varied terrain and have been flawless and a pleasure to ride on. Great components, beautifully built.

Thanks Paolo.

ugo.santalucia

styxd wrote:

I had a front tyre blow off a Stans rim, thankfully I wasnt on the bike at the time! I dont think I'd use them again, a touch too light and a touch too dear.

If the tyre blown off while you were not riding it, it suggests incorrect fit. Given the internal profile, Tubeless rims need you to handle the tyre along the rim to make sure it sits correctly, while you don't need to do that with normal rims. Is it possible you did not install the tyre correctly?
Also, because they are tubeless rims, they are not design to work at 120 PSI or so. I use mine with CX or touring tyres and never exceed 60.

Ultimately yes, they are not better than Archetype, only lighter and Archetype are fit and forget and much cheaper, so it's a no brainer

styxd

ugo.santalucia wrote:

styxd wrote:

I had a front tyre blow off a Stans rim, thankfully I wasnt on the bike at the time! I dont think I'd use them again, a touch too light and a touch too dear.

If the tyre blown off while you were not riding it, it suggests incorrect fit. Given the internal profile, Tubeless rims need you to handle the tyre along the rim to make sure it sits correctly, while you don't need to do that with normal rims. Is it possible you did not install the tyre correctly?
Also, because they are tubeless rims, they are not design to work at 120 PSI or so. I use mine with CX or touring tyres and never exceed 60.

Ultimately yes, they are not better than Archetype, only lighter and Archetype are fit and forget and much cheaper, so it's a no brainer

Yeh, could have been incorrect fit, although I checked the bead had been seated all the way round. It made a loud "ping" when I inflated the innertube. Another thing I found with the Stans is they tended to stretch the tyre bead alot (more so than any other rim I've used) which perhaps made the tyres easier to "blow off"

ugo.santalucia

styxd wrote:

Yeh, could have been incorrect fit, although I checked the bead had been seated all the way round. It made a loud "ping" when I inflated the innertube. Another thing I found with the Stans is they tended to stretch the tyre bead alot (more so than any other rim I've used) which perhaps made the tyres easier to "blow off"

The ping is correct. No idea... I've got the newer ones, not the super light first series that cracked... They don't seem particularly tight... kind of average fit

styxd

Hmm, god knows! I also had the later ones (alpha 350s), could have been the tyres that were partly to blame - GP4000S?

ugo.santalucia

styxd wrote:

Hmm, god knows! I also had the later ones (alpha 350s), could have been the tyres that were partly to blame - GP4000S?

There seems to be a bit of a literature of Stans and Conti GP 4000... maybe they just don't like each other. Tubeless rims in general are a bit more troublesome as tyre installation is more critical than it is on normal clincher rims, rim tape choice and installation is also critical.
I would use them for they've been designed... tubeless and lower pressure. 110-120 can easily become 140 if braking downhill. I use mine at 50-60 and have disc brakes and they are not giving me any grief

cycleclinic

I have heard of tyres blowing of the stans rims it not limtied to the conti tyres it seem more related to 1) tyre pressue used (too high) and 2) the kevlar bead strecthing a bit with time. I imagine if the pressues are kept down to 100 psi so when braking they don't rise to much all will be well. Still I struggle to see the point in the stans rim unless you are planning on running tubeless.

DA 9000 hub on H plus Archetypes, DT Swiss RR440's or if you really want to spend Pancenti SL23's is kind of perfect.

ugo.santalucia

Could be the stretch, but the new A 23 are a tighter fit and also tubeless ready and "pop" the tyre, so they should stretch the bead even more.
Again, I use big tyres which are a pretty relaxed fit and don't appear to be stretching

designman

Is it possible to have a pair of hand built clincher wheels for around the 1400g weight or less using DA 9000 hubs?

ugo.santalucia

designman wrote:

Is it possible to have a pair of hand built clincher wheels for around the 1400g weight or less using DA 9000 hubs?

Yes

designman

ugo.santalucia wrote:

designman wrote:

Is it possible to have a pair of hand built clincher wheels for around the 1400g weight or less using DA 9000 hubs?

Yes

Using what Rims and spokes?
The hubs will be 24 front / 28 rear.

ugo.santalucia

designman wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

designman wrote:

Is it possible to have a pair of hand built clincher wheels for around the 1400g weight or less using DA 9000 hubs?

Yes

Using what Rims and spokes?
The hubs will be 24 front / 28 rear.

Ah... you didn't say that before... spokes will have to be CX Ray innit?
There are several alloy rims just under 400 grams and that's where you have to look... or you can get hold or some shallowish carbon tubular (maybe 24/24 gives you more luck). Gigantex 20 mm or 38 mm will build well below your target

designman

ugo.santalucia wrote:

designman wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

designman wrote:

Is it possible to have a pair of hand built clincher wheels for around the 1400g weight or less using DA 9000 hubs?

Yes

Using what Rims and spokes?
The hubs will be 24 front / 28 rear.

Ah... you didn't say that before... spokes will have to be CX Ray innit?
There are several alloy rims just under 400 grams and that's where you have to look... or you can get hold or some shallowish carbon tubular (maybe 24/24 gives you more luck). Gigantex 20 mm or 38 mm will build well below your target

I would be looking for alloy rims which are clincher type, not wanting to get carbon rims as I have a pair of 50mm carbon wheels already.

ugo.santalucia

designman wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

designman wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

designman wrote:

Is it possible to have a pair of hand built clincher wheels for around the 1400g weight or less using DA 9000 hubs?

Yes

Using what Rims and spokes?
The hubs will be 24 front / 28 rear.

Ah... you didn't say that before... spokes will have to be CX Ray innit?
There are several alloy rims just under 400 grams and that's where you have to look... or you can get hold or some shallowish carbon tubular (maybe 24/24 gives you more luck). Gigantex 20 mm or 38 mm will build well below your target

I would be looking for alloy rims which are clincher type, not wanting to get carbon rims as I have a pair of 50mm carbon wheels already.

You are looking at Kinlin XR 200 then... like all Kinlin rims, they're nothing spectacular in terms of finish.. .the drilling is not directional and leaves the nipples always slightly bent compared to the spoke direction. That can possibly be offset by using some Sapim round washers (the HM ones), otherwise don't bother, it's not a big issue.

cycleclinic

As I use/ride kinlin rims I can confirm it is a non issue. A XR200 built 24F/28R with DA 9000 hubs laced up with Sapim Laser's or CX-ray and alloy nipples all round would weigh 1400g +/- 20g.