Bullet proof tyres

jameses

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I think in England we have the worst road surface I have seen in the Western World. Locally, you can find worse roads elsewhere, but as a whole roads here are much much worse than anywhere else I have been.
Wales and Scotland are significantly better, for what I have seen.

May be true of London, but the roads in South Wales are certainly no better than those around Hampshire/Sussex.

bendertherobot

robbo2011 wrote:

What people should remember is that the Radonneur Pro weighs about twice as much as a normal race tyre, that's why it is so robust. But it certainly qualifies as bulletproof and might just be what the OP needs.

I have had a lot of success with Schwalbe Durano 28mm tyres (not the plus version) on my winter bike. tough and last ages (6000 miles plus)

28C stock Durano is pretty much 300g. Durano Plus is only available in 25 at 380g.

Randonneur Pro II is 420 g. So a mere 120g more than a stock Durano. And that's in 32c size.

There's a weight penalty but hardly a speed one. The only question is can you make them fit.

ugo.santalucia

bendertherobot wrote:

robbo2011 wrote:

What people should remember is that the Radonneur Pro weighs about twice as much as a normal race tyre, that's why it is so robust. But it certainly qualifies as bulletproof and might just be what the OP needs.

I have had a lot of success with Schwalbe Durano 28mm tyres (not the plus version) on my winter bike. tough and last ages (6000 miles plus)

28C stock Durano is pretty much 300g. Durano Plus is only available in 25 at 380g.

Randonneur Pro II is 420 g. So a mere 120g more than a stock Durano. And that's in 32c size.

There's a weight penalty but hardly a speed one. The only question is can you make them fit.

Speed:

My best 15 Km around Richmond Park with 24 H wheels, CX Ray spokes and Vittoria CX tubulars is 26:15
With the same bike, 36 H wheels with DB spokes and 27 mm Vittoria Pave' tubulars is 28:00 flat
With the cross bike and 32 H wheels with the Randonneur PRO is 29 minutes, which I think I can improve on, as it's been always breezy when I tried

robbo2011

bendertherobot wrote:

robbo2011 wrote:

28C stock Durano is pretty much 300g. Durano Plus is only available in 25 at 380g.

Randonneur Pro II is 420 g. So a mere 120g more than a stock Durano. And that's in 32c size.

There's a weight penalty but hardly a speed one. The only question is can you make them fit.

Read my post, I said a normal race tyre so a 23mm tyre with a 220g or so weight.

I was not comparing a winter training tyre like the Durano with the Radonneur.

I was just making the point that there is a trade off between weight and ruggedness and the Radonneurs are so rugged partly because they have more material and so are heavier.

robbo2011

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Speed:

My best 15 Km around Richmond Park with 24 H wheels, CX Ray spokes and Vittoria CX tubulars is 26:15
With the same bike, 36 H wheels with DB spokes and 27 mm Vittoria Pave' tubulars is 28:00 flat
With the cross bike and 32 H wheels with the Randonneur PRO is 29 minutes, which I think I can improve on, as it's been always breezy when I tried

Well I guess if you guys are riding around on the flat all the time then weight is no issue for you.

Me on the other hand, it matters. I took my BMC SLR01 out today on my normal 65km route which has 1350m of climbing. I was 15 minutes quicker (moving time) than last week when I rode it on my Genesis Vapour. conditions were similar.

And I did a sufferfest video yesterday so my legs were dead today. But still 15 minutes quicker over 65km.

Hardly scientific but it is consistently the same story when comparing the BMC with Genesis speeds. And weight makes no difference?

Anyway, back to tyres as this is all off topic.

ugo.santalucia

robbo2011 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Speed:

My best 15 Km around Richmond Park with 24 H wheels, CX Ray spokes and Vittoria CX tubulars is 26:15
With the same bike, 36 H wheels with DB spokes and 27 mm Vittoria Pave' tubulars is 28:00 flat
With the cross bike and 32 H wheels with the Randonneur PRO is 29 minutes, which I think I can improve on, as it's been always breezy when I tried

Well I guess if you guys are riding around on the flat all the time then weight is no issue for you.

Me on the other hand, it matters. I took my BMC SLR01 out today on my normal 65km route which has 1350m of climbing. I was 15 minutes quicker (moving time) than last week when I rode it on my Genesis Vapour. conditions were similar.

And I did a sufferfest video yesterday so my legs were dead today. But still 15 minutes quicker over 65km.

Hardly scientific but it is consistently the same story when comparing the BMC with Genesis speeds. And weight makes no difference?

I've not taken the cross bike to the alps yet, so I can't compare my times up my usual cols.
My best time up Box hill (a small pimple in the south of England) with race tyres is just under 7 minutes, with the cross bike and touring tyres is 7:25... the all setup is about 1 Kg heavier, 400 g or so is tyres
I did the Etape Cymru (just over 2,500 mt of climbing) just off a gold standard... I would have probably got a gold standard had I not waited for my mate's weak bladder. That's in line with my normal finish times on hilly sportives with a road bike and race tyres

Let's put it this way... I will not use the Randonneur for a time trial, but I will use them for everything else, they ride well, they are extremely reliable and they are fast enough to keep up in a chain gang.
BTW: downhill they are faster than road tyres... that is especially true when the descent has broken surface and twists

bendertherobot

robbo2011 wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

robbo2011 wrote:

28C stock Durano is pretty much 300g. Durano Plus is only available in 25 at 380g.

Randonneur Pro II is 420 g. So a mere 120g more than a stock Durano. And that's in 32c size.

There's a weight penalty but hardly a speed one. The only question is can you make them fit.

Read my post, I said a normal race tyre so a 23mm tyre with a 220g or so weight.

I was not comparing a winter training tyre like the Durano with the Radonneur.

I was just making the point that there is a trade off between weight and ruggedness and the Radonneurs are so rugged partly because they have more material and so are heavier.

I read your post perfectly well. I compared the performance of the tyre you claimed to be bulletproof with one you claimed to be twice the weight of a racing tyre which you yourself are not using. That's a falsity to start with. I was merely commenting that, in terms of the Randonneur, it's not that much heavier than racier all condition tyres.

robbo2011

I never claimed the Duranos were bulletproof.

And all I have said that the Radonneurs are much heavier than all out performance tyres. You don't get something for nothing, that's the only point I was trying to make.

bendertherobot

Indeed you don't. But neither do you necessarily lose as much as you'd expect. The difference between my "balls out commute" on a 6.8kg carbon bike v a 11kg Croix De Fer on a hilly commute (18 miles) is about 3 minutes. That's considerable or not, depending on your point of view.

But it's also extreme as so many examples are. Remember that if we're talking about changing from a race tyre at 250 g to even a Randonneur at 500g that's a mere 0.5 kg difference. Sure, it's rotational, but it probably won't mean very much.

Now, as you add other factors such as heavy frame, heavy wheels, mudguards, heavy tyres etc, it stacks up. It's also very very difficult to make real world comparisons in the face of so many external factors.

robbo2011

On a side note, do you actually enjoy riding your 11kg Genesis compared to your carbon bike?

I find my 11kg Vapour to be dead, slow, energy sapping with barge-like handling in comparison to SLR01. Not any fun at all. I only ride it because I don't want to spoil the good bike by using it in bad weather.

Maybe I should take it off road, but it's too hilly and technical here, I'd need a MTB.

bendertherobot

Yes. Absolutely. But not in the dry!

I love it because I can take it anywhere and it will do anything. I can get it dirty and not clean it. When I do it looks like new.

I am probably doing a North to South Wales 1 dayer this year. I hope it's dry. I'd like to take my best bike (which is steel now) but I won't be at all upset if it's wet and I take the Croix.

robbo2011

Glad you enjoy the CdF.

If I had ridden the Vapour on my last Sportive (Alpen Brevet Gold tour), I genuinely don't think I would have been able to get round. Seriously.

bendertherobot

Sram wifli!

ugo.santalucia

robbo2011 wrote:

Glad you enjoy the CdF.

If I had ridden the Vapour on my last Sportive (Alpen Brevet Gold tour), I genuinely don't think I would have been able to get round. Seriously.

Don't underestimate yourself, I have seen quite a few people going around the 205 Km and 3.5 K of climbing course of the Eroica with 100 years old bikes weighing 30 Kg and with no gears.
As a feat, doing an Alpine event on a cross bike is not even worth mentioning...

noiseboyfeetman

I usually use Gatorskins but when I came to getting some replacements Wantied to try something different so went for some Michelin Lithion 2's following this review http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/category/components/tyres/road/product/review-michelin-lithion-2-road-tyre-13-47178/. However after having 2 punctures and getting through three intertubes in the last week commuting i've decided to go back to the Gatorskins which never gave me any problems previously. If you're happy with the Gatorskins i'd be tempted to stick with them, especially given this horrible wet weather and all the cr@p on the roads at the moment.