Yawn - DA9k, Red 22 or Record?

JonEdwards

Yep, I know this has been done a million times before, but it's still not helping me make a decision!

I need a new groupset for my roadbike shortly, and there are some good offers around at the mo.

Currently I can get DA9000, Red22 or Record for within £25 of each other, but not sure which to go for.

Record - most familiar with as I'm currently using 2004 Record. Like the hood shape/shifting action. Don't need to buy a new freehub. Best looking. Heaviest, and not compatible with my other half's bike. Not as bombproof as it used to be? Stupid tool needed for joining the chain (or use a KMC chain)

Red - Lightest by 200g, I've always had good luck with SRAM mtb kit, can play mix and match(ish!) with my other half's bike (she's on Force 20). Reputation is that it's not all that robust?? Need to buy a new freehub.

DA - probably the most reliable/"just works". Wouldn't have even considered it until this generation, but the new hood shape is much nicer. Upgradeable to di2 at some point. Needs a new freehub, but then can swap wheels with the missus. Not a great fan of the shift lever set up, but sure I'll learn. Least pleasant of the 3 to look at, IMO.

Thoughts? I know there's a lot of personal preference involved, but what's your take? Gut reaction is to stick with Record, but I'm sufficiently weight weenie (and at 10 stone can almost justify it!) that the 200g difference in weight is dragging me towards SRAM, but then I'm hearing loads of good stuff about DA too... (Lots of long term Campag users going "if I was buying now, I'd get DA")

...and no, I don't "need" any of the above. I'm sure 105 would do me fine, but I've got 8 years out of a secondhand Record gruppo, so if I can get similar or more out of a new one, it'll justify itself that way!

Cheers!

rc856

You've got the best so why change
I've gradually got a Record/Super Record groupset and would only replace it with a newer version.
The size of the hoods was the original deciding factor but now I'm not one to change as I don't think anything else can offer a great enough improvement at that level.
They're all good though I'm sure.

djhermer

What frameset is it? It matters.

Iamnot Wiggins

Stick with Record. My Park chain tool joins & breaks Campag chains without any issues so don't worry too much about a specific tool! Those KMC links are very good though.

JonEdwards

What frameset is it?

Santa Cruz Roadster (for the moment - this may change)

Mccaria

Jon,

I have 9000 and am very pleased with it, significantly improved shifting on 7900 (which surprised me). My only concern has been the noise coming from the cassette on the larger sprockets.

However check out the weight weenies forum and there have been people having problems with 2 aspects of the new groupset - breaking gear cables and breaking cassettes.

On the cassette there is a concern that to lose weight they have introduced carbon fixings for the larger sprockets which are not up to the strain placed on them, leading to failure. There is a thread on this on WW. Certainly on one my cassettes in the larger sprockets there is a noise that doesn't sound great.

It is interesting that shimano have already brought out a new lever the 9001 which is replacing the 9000 levers. The 9001 has a slightly different angle for the gear cable to exit the lever (they had already done this with the first edition 6800). Shimano have been quiet on this but there is some speculation that the angle on the 9000 was causing undue cable rub, leading to wear on the cable and then failure.

Personally and to date I have not had problems with my 9000 (other than the cassette noise) and really like it, but there is comment out there that the cassette and the cabling are not up to standard. A solution for the cassette is either to go 6800 which doesn't use the carbon fixing or go for the SRAM cassette which is compatible. Also check whether you are getting 9000 or 9001 levers.

mfin

Do you really 'need' a new groupset on your Santa Cruz, are some things worn out that you can simply replace instead?

PS. Don't bother with Shimano if you liked Campag, stick with Campag or Sram as it also has a good feeling of feedback on gear changes.

g00se

As a devout Campagnologist, it pains me to suggest this. But it seems like any 11-speed wheel will work with any 11-speed system. So you could go with DA9000 or Red22 and keep your freehub (provided you use an 11-speed Campag cassette).

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/09/ ... ght_303199

JonEdwards

I *need*:- (as in the old ones, are utterly trashed:)

Cassette, chain, chainrings, rear mech, BB.

I'd *like* to go compact at the same time as I'm getting a bit bored of grunting a bottom gear of 39/25 up the 1 in 4s in the Peaks. So new cranks.

(The ergos are fine (rebuilt them last year), the brake calipers are tired but OK (a few of the alloy nuts have corroded and split and been replaced with steel ones), the front mech is sloppy but still works.)

That lot, at Record level, adds up to in excess of £700. A full new groupset is a bit over £1k. If I'm going to replace most of it anyway, i might as well replace the whole lot and be up to date.

Iamnot Wiggins

JonEdwards wrote:

What frameset is it?

Santa Cruz Roadster (for the moment - this may change)

Oh wow, I've always wanted one of those frames! Only ever seen one in the flesh and didn't have the money to buy it

JonEdwards

I'm not the most experienced roadie out there, but by my experience it's remarkably comfortable for an ally frame (I guess the long post helps), and the handling is wonderful - stupidly short stays, so it's got a very short wheelbase and is very nimble.

I've been gently toying with changing it for something else, but it's comments like yours that make me want to keep it!

djhermer

JonEdwards wrote:

What frameset is it?

Santa Cruz Roadster (for the moment - this may change)

Love it!! SRAM Red. No brainer.

caadybrompton

Mccaria wrote:

Jon,

I have 9000 and am very pleased with it, significantly improved shifting on 7900 (which surprised me). My only concern has been the noise coming from the cassette on the larger sprockets.

However check out the weight weenies forum and there have been people having problems with 2 aspects of the new groupset - breaking gear cables and breaking cassettes.

On the cassette there is a concern that to lose weight they have introduced carbon fixings for the larger sprockets which are not up to the strain placed on them, leading to failure. There is a thread on this on WW. Certainly on one my cassettes in the larger sprockets there is a noise that doesn't sound great.

It is interesting that shimano have already brought out a new lever the 9001 which is replacing the 9000 levers. The 9001 has a slightly different angle for the gear cable to exit the lever (they had already done this with the first edition 6800). Shimano have been quiet on this but there is some speculation that the angle on the 9000 was causing undue cable rub, leading to wear on the cable and then failure.

Personally and to date I have not had problems with my 9000 (other than the cassette noise) and really like it, but there is comment out there that the cassette and the cabling are not up to standard. A solution for the cassette is either to go 6800 which doesn't use the carbon fixing or go for the SRAM cassette which is compatible. Also check whether you are getting 9000 or 9001 levers.

Very good advice Mccaria , was about to post the same thing.
Here is the thread to read and see pics of the cracked cassette. http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=118879

Make sure you get 9001 one levers if you do decide to go with DA to avoid the potential cable problems.

I have Red22 on my Caad10 and have been very impressed with the set up. Smooth,Very quiet and great shifting. Very intuitive with the doubletap etc in my opinion.
I haven't tried the others so can't comment on them in that sense.

slowandsteady

djhermer wrote:

What frameset is it? It matters.

No it doesn't, I'm about to put campag on a Cannondale

cycleclinic

Record chains do not need a stupid tool tool to join. The new Park tool 11 speed chain tool has the pin peening tool intergrated and it is cheaper than the Campag tool. Or use fit a KMC quick link to the record chain.

DA 9000 and record are within 30g of each other. SRAM Red22 is light but it does not look right. DA and Record look classy. 200g will make naff all difference in the end. The new Ergo hood shape is best for my hands and most people really like it. Shimano hood shape is fine but not as good. Shimano DA has other plus points though.

bendertherobot

thecycleclinic wrote:

Record chains do not need a stupid tool tool to join. The new Park tool 11 speed chain tool has the pin peening tool intergrated and it is cheaper than the Campag tool. Or use fit a KMC quick link to the record chain.

DA 9000 and record are within 30g of each other. SRAM Red22 is light but it does not look right. DA and Record look classy. 200g will make naff all difference in the end. The new Ergo hood shape is best for my hands and most people really like it. Shimano hood shape is fine but not as good. Shimano DA has other plus points though.

Red 2013 and Red 22 has a new hood shape