Component priority when weight saving?

Manc33

Everyone says "upgrade your wheels" when talking about lightening your bike, the rotational weight etc. So thats one upgrade. After this people probably suggest the frame itself, you can go from a cheap aluminium frame weighing 2000g to a relatively cheap (for what it is) carbon frame that is half that weight.

It is after this it gets confusing for me. There aren't really many heavy components left to a bike. The crank arms and chainrings are I guess the next culprit? On my £300 bike the triple crank arms/chainrings/bolts weigh 800g and to just drop to a 600g one would cost a fortune. Used and scuffed carbon crank arms are £150 and so on.

Now it seems everything I consider upgrading would cost a fortune to save hardly any weight.

Welcome to cycling?

tlw1

have a big poo is a good weight saving!

You are correct though - the weight saved if far less than the money spent

Anonymous

I would buy a whole new bike personally. Quickly (instantly probably) followed by some new wheels!

rolf_f

I'm going through this process with my Look. So far, even at half price, the Record crankset has been the big stinker in value for money!

It helps to source things over time and get them cheaply. Aside from the obvious stuff like the wheels and tubes, the carbon railed Arione new for £100 wasn't bad. And the Super Record brakeset new for not much more also did surprisingly well in £s per gram terms.

Effectively, the crankset is probably barely worth doing for anything other than bling reasons - take the weight saving as the bonus prize.

You can get lightweight bars like 3T team or Deda Superleggera at well under 200g. A lightweight stem isn't much more expensive in £s per gram if you get a lightweight alloy rather than carbon (carbon stems are really heavy for carbon products). I got the Deda bars and stem from Ribble for about £224 the pair which is less than the retail for the bars alone.

It's expensive but it is gaining me a new bike in spares so I win twice over! These smaller things are only worth doing as a collection as a whole - the weight saving on any individual upgrade is insignificant. I've knocked half a kilo or so off the bike so far and am targeting the UCI weight limit. (I don't want to beat Froomes Strava times and have people tell me I only did it because my bike was lighter..... )

Monty Dog

You need to start with a decent frame - spending hundreds on a £300 bike it's still going to handle and feel like a bike with a £100, 2kg frame ie. dead and unresponsive. Better to save your money and invest in a better platform to upgrade from.

Calpol

Manc33 wrote:

Everyone says "upgrade your wheels" when talking about lightening your bike, the rotational weight etc. So thats one upgrade. After this people probably suggest the frame itself, you can go from a cheap aluminium frame weighing 2000g to a relatively cheap (for what it is) carbon frame that is half that weight.

It is after this it gets confusing for me. There aren't really many heavy components left to a bike. The crank arms and chainrings are I guess the next culprit? On my £300 bike the triple crank arms/chainrings/bolts weigh 800g and to just drop to a 600g one would cost a fortune. Used and scuffed carbon crank arms are £150 and so on.

Now it seems everything I consider upgrading would cost a fortune to save hardly any weight.

Welcome to cycling?

Head over to www.weightweenies.com. I think they have a database of components that have been weighed. The "Introduce Yourself " thread is quite nice to browse through.

neeb

Once you get past wheels, frame and groupset it's just a case of lots of little things adding up. But yes, it is expensive, and dubiously worth it. Bars, saddle, stem, seatpost, pedal spindles etc. can all save you some weight but the light stuff costs and the savings only really make sense when you add them all together, e.g. 5x60g = 300g. And you are still only talking half a full water bottle... The same principle applies when you are looking at smaller components, except there are more of them and the individual gains are even smaller. E.g. brake cables, alloy bolts, bar tape, bottle cages, quick releases etc. But again, they all add up and you might lose another 200g. It's these things that (all together) get a mid-range off-the-shelf bike with decent wheels and groupset down to 6.8kg from 7 - 8kg.

bobones

Here are some of the savings you could make going from typical stock items to light weight stuff:
Wheels - 500g going from standard 2kg wheels to 1.5kg or less (e.g. DA C24)
Tyres - 200g going to lightweight folding clinchers such as Ultremo, Pro 3/4, GP4000 from heavy wired
Tubes - 100g going to conti supersonics (50g) or latex (70g) from standard butyl
Chainset - 200g going to carbon chainset like SLK light, Praxis rings even lighter
Groupset - 350g going to SRAM Rival/Force/Red from 105/Ultegra/Dura Ace
Seatpost - 150g going to lightweight carbon from heavy alloy
Bars - 100g going to lightweight carbon from heavy alloy
Saddle - 100g going to lightweight carbon or titanium rails from standard, e.g. Selle Italia SLR TT, Specialized Toupe Pro

That's 1.7kg or 3.75lbs right there which Is pretty significant and we've not yet looked at titanium skewers, bolts, lightweight cables, tape, cages, pedals etc. There's a fair amount to be saved on cassettes too if you're willing to fork out for the top of the range stuff.

rolf_f

bobones wrote:

Chainset - 200g going to carbon chainset like SLK light, Praxis rings even lighter
Groupset - 350g going to SRAM Rival/Force/Red from 105/Ultegra/Dura Ace

Double accounting here possibly? The groupset weight would include the chainset.

Lightweight skewers is one thing I won't do. Internal cam skewers are a weight cost worth putting up with.

I guess if you are starting out with a bike that has 2kg wheels then probably the frame isn't worth the expense. Even basic Campag Khamsins weigh a lot less than that and they cost barely more than £100. How much weight you can save in relative terms doesn't really matter - it's the absolutes that count!

markhewitt1978

Pedals too. I saved approx 140g going from bottom of the range SPD to top of the range.

bobones

Rolf F wrote:

bobones wrote:

Chainset - 200g going to carbon chainset like SLK light, Praxis rings even lighter
Groupset - 350g going to SRAM Rival/Force/Red from 105/Ultegra/Dura Ace

Double accounting here possibly? The groupset weight would include the chainset.

Yes, that's probably the case with something like SRAM Red, but even discounting the chainset, SRAM Rival is around 300g lighter than 105 and I reckon the same with Force/Ultegra. Moving from a SRAM Rival chainset to lightweight carbon with praxis rings is still worth around 200g.

bobones

Rolf F wrote:

I guess if you are starting out with a bike that has 2kg wheels then probably the frame isn't worth the expense. Even basic Campag Khamsins weigh a lot less than that and they cost barely more than £100. How much weight you can save in relative terms doesn't really matter - it's the absolutes that count!

You'd be surprised at how heavy the stock wheels are on some bikes with high quality frames, e.g. some Felt F series carbon bikes come with Mavic CXP 22 that are around 2kg. I have nice hand built winter wheels with Ambrosio Evolution rims and 105 hubs that top 2kg whereas my DA C24s are around the 1.4kg mark.

markhewitt1978

Yep; my Trek Madone 2.1 for example. I upgraded to Shimano RS10 wheels on it (so nothing fancy) but recently I put on one of the stock Bontrager wheels back on the back for use on the turbo, the weight difference just picking up the bike was very noticeable.

The fact that manufacturers nearly always skimp on the wheels is one of the main reasons they are always first for upgrade.

rolf_f

bobones wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

bobones wrote:

Chainset - 200g going to carbon chainset like SLK light, Praxis rings even lighter
Groupset - 350g going to SRAM Rival/Force/Red from 105/Ultegra/Dura Ace

Double accounting here possibly? The groupset weight would include the chainset.

Yes, that's probably the case with something like SRAM Red, but even discounting the chainset, SRAM Rival is around 300g lighter than 105 and I reckon the same with Force/Ultegra. Moving from a SRAM Rival chainset to lightweight carbon with praxis rings is still worth around 200g.

All down to where you start from. I only saved 50 grams going from Centaur carbon cranks to Record carbon - that cost £5.49 a gram! This is how it worked out for me - this was buying bargains so the normal costs without shopping around would have been rather different. For example, the Super Record brakes cost only £125 brand new and the chainset was cheap at £279.99 but still appalling value in weight saving terms! The saddle was expensive for the weight saving as well despite being a good price (£100 for a brand new carbon railed Arione)

In order of increasing cost - inner tubes, veloplugs, tyres, wheels, brakes (surprisingly), stem, bars, saddle, crankset.

However, you also have to look at the absolute weight savings.

In order of decreasing weight saved - tyres, bars, brakes (surprisingly), inner tubes, chainset, stem, saddle, veloplugs.

So the nearer something is to the front of both lists, the more it is worth doing. As you might have guessed, the brakes saved more weight at less cost than I expected.

Manc33

I already got a pair of 1400g wheels (stock were 2100g) saving 720g.

I have got a Brooks Colt on (567g) and I am swapping to a carbon saddle (95g)

Next will be the frame, going from 2000g (cheap alu) to 1000g (carbon)

Then I might swap off my Marathon Plus tyres (1180g!) and get some of those "Kenda Kaliente" tyres (310g)

The saddle is a lot heavier than stock but swapping to all of that will save 3062g aka 6.75lb. The bike was 23lb stock so would go down to under 17.0lb even taking that saddle into account.

The cost of doing that... £630

1000g carbon frame: £350
1400g wheelset: £190
310g tyres: £50
95g carbon saddle: £40

charlie_potatoes

Manc33 wrote:

Next will be the frame, going from 2000g (cheap alu) to 1000g (carbon)

Once you change the frame it becomes a different bike?

Triggers Broom!

Semantik

Is the 1400g wheelset price of £190 for anew or secondhand set? If new, what are the wheels?

Bo Duke

I weigh 110kgs and you guys are talking about saving grams? Hello?!

charlie_potatoes

Bo Duke wrote:

I weigh 110kgs and you guys are talking about saving grams? Hello?!

Look after the grams, Bo, and the kilograms will take care of themselves

FransJacques

Weigh your seatpost. A friends £3000 bike came with a > 300 gram seatpost. KCNC and Woodman make nice light posts. Plus you can often improve your position in the process.

Manc33

Semantik wrote:

Is the 1400g wheelset price of £190 for anew or secondhand set? If new, what are the wheels?

Someone (pastey_boy) pointed these out in another thread. Ended up getting them. 8)
viewtopic.php?f=40042&t=12952557#p18666563

http://superstar.tibolts.co.uk/product_ ... cts_id=834

I weigh 175lbs but took a chance on them.

Heard a few creaks from the spokes the very first time I went out, but I have done miles and miles on them now at all speeds over unavoidable potholes and they have held up, up to now.

Website claims 1360g but mine were 1407g. Who cares lol. Thats super light, like Dura-Ace kinda light, for 3 or 4 times less cost.

Don't even ask me how safe they might be, I cannot guarantee anything, they are after all light and cheap so strength is going to always be the issue if there were an issue with them. Hubs roll for absolutely ages.

I ordered them and they got delivered the next day.

The funny thing is the rear hub on those seems to be 280g+ and swapping to an "Ultralight UL190" would again shave off nearly 100g on the wheelset. Then they would be 1300g lol. I admit I am careful on them, no tight turns, try to avoid bumps etc.

Yes these are brand new and built in the UK. Crazy price I know. The spokes are apparently the same as Sapim CX-Ray just not aero, they are round in the middle. Those spokes (Sapim laser/CX-Rays) are ludicrously light. Something like 4.5g per spoke. I am sure there are old nipples that weigh that. :oops:

Rims seem solid and aren't even stupidly light at 485g each I think it was. I'd say thats a safe rim weight even at my 175lb. If anything is going to break on these it will be a spoke.

Manc33

On my bike strictly by weight the components go like this:

793g - Crankset
440g - Pedals
400g - Brake Calipers
338g - Gear Shifters / Brake Levers
312g - Rear Mech
300g - Seat Post
300g - Handlebar
292g - Bottom Bracket
290g - Chain
280g - Cassette
200g - Stem

Beyond that its too light to care, for me anyway.

I would argue that if you have already upgraded to new wheels and frame (same bike? Trigger's Broom again) the only things to upgrade to save weight then are crankset, pedals and brake calipers.

After that you're talking silly money for lighter shifters, rear mech and so on and saving what, 100g? 200g tops per item.

I can buy a bike and swap the frame and wheels and call it the same bike. :oops:

Remarkable

Manc33 wrote:

On my bike strictly by weight the components go like this:

793g - Crankset
440g - Pedals
400g - Brake Calipers
338g - Gear Shifters / Brake Levers
312g - Rear Mech
300g - Seat Post
300g - Handlebar
292g - Bottom Bracket
290g - Chain
280g - Cassette
200g - Stem

Beyond that its too light to care, for me anyway.

I would argue that if you have already upgraded to new wheels and frame (same bike? Trigger's Broom again) the only things to upgrade to save weight then are crankset, pedals and brake calipers.

After that you're talking silly money for lighter shifters, rear mech and so on and saving what, 100g? 200g tops per item.

I can buy a bike and swap the frame and wheels and call it the same bike. :oops:

Firstly, what bike do you have?

FransJacques

my God there are some good pickings on that list:

- a 312g rear mech? do you have 1987 Deore XT long cage?

- 400g brake calipers - SRAM are much ligher

- 400g pedals, most are now 125g per pedal, less if you get the new Time Espresso

- you have very light gear shifters and a heavy mech - are you running Di2?

- 300g seatpost - see? boat anchor

- 292g BB? is that an octalink or square taper? that's nuts heavy

- 300g handlebar - there are lots of light/cheapish alu bars out there, esp if you go 26.0, Deda 215 Shallows are very light. This will have a spillover benefit for your stem too.

- no front mech? are you running a 1 x 9/10?

racingcondor

There are some things not worth doing though.

Personally I'd take a good Alu frame over a cheap carbon one every time (frames in the £600 range). Cheap carbon frames may be light but many are so spongy that they're just not a good ride (I'd go CAAD10, Canyon, Kinesis Aithein etc) alu frame isn't. I've used cheap, light skewers and will not be going back to them again (Shimano internal cam all the way).

Wheels are good because a decent set can be a good way to shed 3-400g (or more) and will improve the feel of the bike. As you've noted the chainset is a great place to lose 2-300g but it's not a cheap one (I've been eyeing Rotor cranks for a couple of years now for that reason, can't bring myself to spend the £££).

Looking for cheaper easy ways to lose weight from the bike though you'd be surprised what you can lose off a bike on the showroom floor by looking at the bottle cages, seatpost, bar tape, saddle tyres and tubes.

paulhino

Bo Duke wrote:

I weigh 110kgs and you guys are talking about saving grams? Hello?!

:shock:

Manc33

FransJacques wrote:

my God there are some good pickings on that list:

- a 312g rear mech? do you have 1987 Deore XT long cage?

- 400g brake calipers - SRAM are much ligher

- 400g pedals, most are now 125g per pedal, less if you get the new Time Espresso

- you have very light gear shifters and a heavy mech - are you running Di2?

- 300g seatpost - see? boat anchor

- 292g BB? is that an octalink or square taper? that's nuts heavy

- 300g handlebar - there are lots of light/cheapish alu bars out there, esp if you go 26.0, Deda 215 Shallows are very light. This will have a spillover benefit for your stem too.

- no front mech? are you running a 1 x 9/10?

- a 312g rear mech? = Shimano Alivio MTB mech

- 400g brake calipers = cheap B'Twin calipers, I just guessed at 200g each

- 400g pedals = Wellgo Bear Trap

- you have very light gear shifters and a heavy mech - are you running Di2? No, they are XTR M951 (the last of the 8 speed) shifters/brake levers combined.

- 300g seatpost - see? boat anchor - I just guessed with it being a cheap bike, might not be that bad. :oops:

- 292g BB? is that an octalink or square taper? that's nuts heavy - "Kinex" and is that heavy because it is a square taper one.

- 300g handlebar - there are lots of light/cheapish alu bars out there, esp if you go 26.0, Deda 215 Shallows are very light. This will have a spillover benefit for your stem too. - I only guessed at the weight, its a Rockrider 5.2 bar. Came off one of the cheapest full sus MTB's out there.

- no front mech? are you running a 1 x 9/10? = Its a Shimano R443 braze on with band mount to fit my 34.9mm seat tube. Had to use that because of having MTB shifters.

I got a triple 28-39-50 front and a SRAM PG850 11-32 cassette. It has a massive gear range.

If you think all of that is bad look at my tyres - 1180g for the pair. Marathon Plus, can't have pun**ures.

Remarkable

Manc33 wrote:

FransJacques wrote:

my God there are some good pickings on that list:

- a 312g rear mech? do you have 1987 Deore XT long cage?

- 400g brake calipers - SRAM are much ligher

- 400g pedals, most are now 125g per pedal, less if you get the new Time Espresso

- you have very light gear shifters and a heavy mech - are you running Di2?

- 300g seatpost - see? boat anchor

- 292g BB? is that an octalink or square taper? that's nuts heavy

- 300g handlebar - there are lots of light/cheapish alu bars out there, esp if you go 26.0, Deda 215 Shallows are very light. This will have a spillover benefit for your stem too.

- no front mech? are you running a 1 x 9/10?

- a 312g rear mech? = Shimano Alivio MTB mech

- 400g brake calipers = cheap B'Twin calipers, I just guessed at 200g each

- 400g pedals = Wellgo Bear Trap

- you have very light gear shifters and a heavy mech - are you running Di2? No, they are XTR M951 (the last of the 8 speed) shifters/brake levers combined.

- 300g seatpost - see? boat anchor - I just guessed with it being a cheap bike, might not be that bad. :oops:

- 292g BB? is that an octalink or square taper? that's nuts heavy - "Kinex" and is that heavy because it is a square taper one.

- 300g handlebar - there are lots of light/cheapish alu bars out there, esp if you go 26.0, Deda 215 Shallows are very light. This will have a spillover benefit for your stem too. - I only guessed at the weight, its a Rockrider 5.2 bar. Came off one of the cheapest full sus MTB's out there.

- no front mech? are you running a 1 x 9/10? = Its a Shimano R443 braze on with band mount to fit my 34.9mm seat tube. Had to use that because of having MTB shifters.

I got a triple 28-39-50 front and a SRAM PG850 11-32 cassette. It has a massive gear range.

If you think all of that is bad look at my tyres - 1180g for the pair. Marathon Plus, can't have pun**ures.

This is only my opinion but...if that parts list is anything to go by, just save your money, get a new road bike, and transfer your wheels.

On the other hand, If you like tinkering, buy a frame, build it up with whatever parts you want and then transfer your wheels when your finished. This way, you can keep riding your current one while you are working on your new project.
Planet x have some seriously good deals on bikes/ frames at the minute and Ribble are always very reasonable with components.

t4tomo

So you have some frankenbike with heavy MTB parts and a pair of cheap light wheels that probably flex like crazy.

Enjoy

sloppyschleckonds

t4tomo wrote:

So you have some frankenbike with heavy MTB parts and a pair of cheap light wheels that probably flex like crazy.

Enjoy

All that advice given on Bike Radar has paid dividends

Manc33

It kinda isn't weighed down by MTB stuff. The only MTB only stuff on it is the handlebar, cassette, rear mech, shifters.

A light MTB bar is lighter than a light road bar. :P Way more tubing to a road bar. At least every one I have seen (like Extralite at 100g or whatever it is) no road bars exist that light.

Thing is I need bar ends on flat bars and so it isn't realistically just flat bars, the bar ends are 150g a pair.

Saw some super light aluminium bar ends a while back, might get them, 49g they reckon for the pair.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Moutain-Aluminu ... t+bar+ends

Used to have some really light ones on my old MTB back when I was a kid, best bar ends ever, can't find them anywhere, I am going back 20+ years.