Compact vs Standard?

Bozabyka

My new frame will arrive in the next few weeks.
The bike will be used for fast riding, sportives and perhaps a few mountains.
I will be buying a Campag Veloce groupset but need to decide on compact or standard chainset.
I have researched the subject and am now still unsure what to do.
I think I will be best with compact 50/34 and a close ratio block. My concern is that this may mean dropping to bottom ring and changing more than I would with a standard.
Would I be better with a 53 top ring and a wide cassette?
I have tried using gear calculators and really do not have enough knowledge to make an informed decision.
What might you suggest?

hp1975

Have you owned a road bike before? Have you tried either of the chainsets you mention? It also depends to some extent how big a gear you can turn. Personally I ride a 53/39 with 11/23 at the rear but thats personal preference. I rode it in the alps last year but put a 26T at the back which was probably still a little too high. I'm more of a descender than a climber so I prefer a big gear but if you see yourself climbing more or your riding style is to spin lower gears then get the 50T. Perhaps try both and find some hills (up and down) and see which you prefer.

kajjal

Its personal preference based on your riding style and ability. I ride a 50/34 with a 12/30 to get me up steep hills and due to not being a fast rider. A faster rider would prefer higher , less spread out gearing. I am more biased to comfort over a few hours than out and out speed.

imposter2.0

If you need to ask, then you probably should buy a compact.

cycleclinic

You'll like veloce cheap and light it works well too. As for the standard vs compact thing. I personally can't stand compacts becuase if I am in a group ride I always found my self changing chain rings. I got stronger and learned how to spin at 90 to 100 rpm I then switched to a standard double on all my bikes. I live in suffolk though our climbs tend to be short so I have variety of ratios on the back on my different bike 13-18T (on a 52/44T chainset) and 12-21T, 12-23T and 12-25T on various bikes with 53/39T. Climbing a 10% gradient on 39/21T is tough but doable if it is short. If I lived somewhere hilly I would use a 12-27T miche cassette or even a 12-29T with a modern campag rear mech.

So just be realistic about where you live. The other alternitive for the rider in the hill is campagnolo's lovely triple groupset. With that you can use a closer ratio cassette like like a 12-23T.

GGBiker

Another option is to get a compact and see how you get along with it, it will make hills easier certainly. If you are changing between rings too much then change the 34t for a 36 or 38 which will give a feel more like a 53/39.

I have 50/38 at the moment and it works great, I had the same problem as mentioned, always switching between the rings on group rides on rolling terrain, problem solved now.

redscouse

this useful?

http://philsroadbikingblog.blogspot.co. ... sette.html

chrisw12

Imposter wrote:

If you need to ask, then you probably should buy a compact.

Since this question comes up so often, I think this advice should be a 'sticky'.

fsman

have a play with the different options.

http://www.gear-calculator.com/#KB=39,53&RZ=11,12,13,14,15,17,19,21,24,28&GR=DERS&KB2=34,50&RZ2=11,12,13,14,15,16,17,19,21,23,25&GT2=DERS&TF=81&UF=2099&SL=2

I found that with a compact and a 12-25 there is little overlap between going from small to big on the chain ring.

northpole

I'm guessing this may be your first road bike or you would have some perspective on the matter from your existing bike?

I bought a bike several years back with a standard and set about doing a sportive in the Surrey Hills. Lesson learnt very quickly and the standard was quickly replaced with a compact. I can't see circumstances changing which would convince me that I'm strong enough to make the switch back to standard, unless I started riding in very different terrain.

I would suggest a compact is a great place to start and you can experiment a bit with Veloce cassettes which are a fraction of the cost of a new chainset.

Peter

rickeverett

thecycleclinic wrote:

You'll like veloce cheap and light it works well too. As for the standard vs compact thing. I personally can't stand compacts becuase if I am in a group ride I always found my self changing chain rings. I got stronger and learned how to spin at 90 to 100 rpm I then switched to a standard double on all my bikes. I live in suffolk though our climbs tend to be short so I have variety of ratios on the back on my different bike 13-18T (on a 52/44T chainset) and 12-21T, 12-23T and 12-25T on various bikes with 53/39T. Climbing a 10% gradient on 39/21T is tough but doable if it is short. If I lived somewhere hilly I would use a 12-27T miche cassette or even a 12-29T with a modern campag rear mech.

So just be realistic about where you live. The other alternitive for the rider in the hill is campagnolo's lovely triple groupset. With that you can use a closer ratio cassette like like a 12-23T.

I agree - this is the main factor. I live in towards Pennine Lancashire and hardly touch flat ground. Most rides will involve a fell or two. Even short runs will be hilly. Compacts are more common than standards around here.
I compensated for the flats by getting a Compact with 11-25T.

OP should consider his terrain first.

Monty Dog

Down to the fitness of the rider and expected terrain - someone living in East Anglia is going to have a different perspective to someone living anywhere hilly. Likewise, if you're riding with a club or racing then you're likely to want a close-ratio cassette but if it's a first road bike, then in general a compact will suit more riders.

on-yer-bike

Compact. Maybe with a 36 instead of a 34 inner ring. A 50-34 with an 11-25 or an 11-23 cassette is a good combo IMO. If you go to the alps you could change to a 12-27 or a 13-29. I use a 39-53 as well but need a 12-27 cassette. A 53-39 is really a pro, keen fit racer kind of chainset.

Bozabyka

Thanks for the replies.
I have been riding for six years road and mtb(SS). I am quite happy to spin and mash.
My road bike has 52/39 and 11- 27 Ultegra cassette. I live in Northamptonshire and it is pretty flat.
I do use bottom gear on the worst climb around here.
I can do ten miles in half hour and want to do the Fred Whitton, any suggestions on suitable gearing?

ManOfKent

I've never done the Fred Whitton but have heard its gradients go up to 25%. My guess is you would need a 32 sprocket on your current bike, so the equivalent on your new frame.

mrushton

So you can do 20mph then for an hour but what about the rest of the ride? The Fred involves some 30% grades albeit short. You could get a chainset with a bcd of 110mm and use rings suited to that - you can then use any ratio you want. Personally I find v. little use for anything over 48 now (how many of us ride on 50x11 or 12 for any length of time). A 48 x 11 or 12 or even 46x11 would prob. get more use. Use the gear inch calculators to get an idea.

Bozabyka

mrushton wrote:

So you can do 20mph then for an hour but what about the rest of the ride?

Yes this is my problem. I want a bike to thrash over ten miles and be capable of crawling up a mountain.
Is a compact a disadvantage on a TT? If you can spin it I am sure it does not matter.
What is your opinion?
I think compact with a couple of a couple of cassettes and chains is going to be better than a 52/39 with a wide block and an emergency mtb cassette.

nochekmate

As others have said, if you're doing the Fred Whitton then you'll more than likely benefit from a compact - this will more than outweigh your needs on the TT front. Besides running a compact in a TT with an 11 tooth cassette offers you more than enough for your standard of riding (it's not as if you are suddenly going to be knocking out 10 mile TTs in sub 22 mins by the sounds of things).

Ride the 53/39 and you are likely to be walking some of the FW route IMO.

rickeverett

OP - What's the terrain like where you live?

There's nothing wrong with Compacts. They aren't amateur at all. Likewise Standards aren't Pro either.
( It would actually be more of an amateur thing to do to whack a Standard with a 11-25 or something in the Passes of the Pennines or the Slopes of Scotland and end up walking than to go with the setup for your region and ABILITY.)

Lots ride compacts around me. Ones with Standards usually have a 27+ cog for the hills as backup.

If you live in a hilly region then a Compact with a close cassette of say 11-25 or 12-28 is more than enough. If you live on the flats then a Standard will do you just as good.

I wouldn't over think it.

desweller

Triple, innit.

<strokes beard, tightens buckles on sandles and saunters off down the beach>

inseine

You're going to run out of gears more often with a standard than a compact, and for the Fred Whitton you'll definitely need a compact.
You'll loose a lot more time being over geared than undergeared and if you get a 50x11 it's a pretty big gear anyway.

nunowoolmez

I run compacts on all my bikes, but that is mostly due to those being the chainsets that came on them & me not being too fussed either way. I have discovered i do like climbing & once i get into rhythm can just tap it out all day. I have nothing to compare against but with compacts & a 11 - 28 cassette, i find i can comfortably get up very steep long climbs. That & i train feckin hard. I would consider a different combo but my training area includes lots of steep climbs, albeit not very long, but i find the combo i use is good for giving full gas on interval type hill training. It seems to work for me anyway. If i ever wanted to beging racing, i might consider a different set up however.

I did the Fred a couple of years back & i would have seriously struggled without a compact & 11-28. I reckon most would advise this gearing, but there will be plenty of riders strong enough who can handle it with the standard & a 12-25. Gits.

Bozabyka

Thanks Des:)

Looks like compact is the way for me to go.
50/34 and 12-23 looks similar to 39/52 and 11-27.
If I have a bigger cassette like a 13-29 for serious climbing will I need a medium rear mech?
Will a medium sized rear mech cause problems with close ratio block?

farrina

Bozabyka wrote:

My new frame will arrive in the next few weeks.
What might you suggest?

A good start would be to calculate your current gearing. From this you can see where you need to go. I have a number of thoughts but am pressed for time.

To calculate your current gearing divide the number of teeth on your front chain ring by the number on the back and multiply by 27. This will give you your individual gearing in inches. Post the results back here if you have a moment for review.

Cheers

Alan

mrbrightside

on-yer-bike wrote:

Compact. Maybe with a 36 instead of a 34 inner ring. A 50-34 with an 11-25 or an 11-23 cassette is a good combo IMO. If you go to the alps you could change to a 12-27 or a 13-29. I use a 39-53 as well but need a 12-27 cassette. A 53-39 is really a pro, keen fit racer kind of chainset.

Where and when do the overlaps coming when changing from the 'normal' setups?

Presumably 50-34 or 53-39 with a circa 25-11is selected as it does not overlap?

Serious Cat

I had a quick look at the Whitton in clips on YT and there is not a snowball in hells chance Id attempt it with a standard crank, much respect to those who can though.

Bozabyka

farrina wrote:

Bozabyka wrote:

My new frame will arrive in the next few weeks.
What might you suggest?

A good start would be to calculate your current gearing. From this you can see where you need to go. I have a number of thoughts but am pressed for time.

To calculate your current gearing divide the number of teeth on your front chain ring by the number on the back and multiply by 27. This will give you your individual gearing in inches. Post the results back here if you have a moment for review.

Cheers

Alan

Thanks Alan these are my results!
39 27 39.00
34 23 39.91
50 12 112.50
52 11 127.64

farrina

This is just focussing on the bottom and top gears. IMHO there is more to it than that!

What I would do is compile a full spreadsheet of your current utilised range of gears deleting those where there is an obvious issue with chain line. You may also find that various combinations duplicate gears.

I have recently switched from a 39/53 to a 36/50 (with an 12-23) 10 speed cassette. The main reason for this was not that I needed a lower bottom gear (I never used the 23) but that I spent a lot of time using the 53/19/18 sprockets and the chain line was not ideal. By switching to a 50/36 it has had the effect of moving my standard gearing down a sprocket. By this I mean I spend most of my time using a 50/18/17. Additionally if you frequently use gears near the cross over point, you can spend a lot of time having to change up and down the cassette and front chainrings eg going from 53/19 ->39/15 to drop 5 inches (hope this makes sense)

I prefer to not use a large sprocket on the back cassette as invariably this involves compromises and larger gaps between gears. For instance when hill climbing a gear a few inches lower can make all the difference and by using a close ration block I only need to snick up a gear.

My useable range is thus:

110,101,94,88,82,77,73,69,64,60,56,53,50,47,43 & 39

Which is a nice grouping with no large jumps (top end excepted)

Gearing is a personal thing and the best route is personal experience - only you know how low you need to go for a certain gradient of hill. Personally now that I am getting on a bit I am not to bothered if I spin out at 50/12 (infrequently) and only down hill.

I have attached a copy of my gear calculations (note I bought a 7950 Shimano 50/34 chainset but sourced a 36 ring from a Shimano Cyclo Cross chainset which works fine to replace the 34.This leaves me the option of putting on a 34 for seriously steep stuff or when I reach my dotage.

Note red indicates chain line issue (unusable) Yellow - not ideal and blue is the gears where I spend most of my time

Hope this helps - any questions please shout

Alan

ps the inches quoted in the chart will be slightly out as I am using 27 inches (harping back to the old days of 27 inch wheels) rather than 700c of today, but you will no doubt get the general idea)

pps if you are thinking of doing the Fred Whitton, apart from a psychiatric evaluation, you may need to use both a compact (34) and a bigger sprocket than a 23 on the back. Only you know how strong a rider you are but given its reputation you may have to specifically gear for the event and sacrifice upper range gears to go down into the mid to low 30 inches as a bottom gear. Its one thing riding up a steep hill, its entirely another doing it over and over again over 100 miles.

florerider

Bozabyka wrote:

Thanks for the replies.
I have been riding for six years road and mtb(SS). I am quite happy to spin and mash.
My road bike has 52/39 and 11- 27 Ultegra cassette. I live in Northamptonshire and it is pretty flat.
I do use bottom gear on the worst climb around here.
I can do ten miles in half hour and want to do the Fred Whitton, any suggestions on suitable gearing?

several threads with people looking for hills for training in the flat land - where do you go to find a hill in Northants that uses the bottom gear?

cycleclinic

For 30% gradients a triple chainset is best but the OP has bought a double groupset. If it is new and unused e.t.c then it should be possible to return it and buy the triple group. Doubles are a comprise in my eyes they make a bike rideable for a bigger range of riders whithout putting the cost of the bike up. Triples are for mountains pure and simple. If you plan or riding mountains and daft gradients then for a triple group is the only. I don't like comprimises. Compacts are cheaper that is why they get used it does not mean they are best.

rolf_f

If in doubt, compact. It's a sellers market for compacts and a buyers market for standards. More people seem to regret buying standards at least in the shorter term and the new old stock bargains are usually standards. It'll be easier and cheaper to switch to a standard than vice-versa.

thecycleclinic wrote:

For 30% gradients a triple chainset is best but the OP has bought a double groupset. If it is new and unused e.t.c then it should be possible to return it and buy the triple group. Doubles are a comprise in my eyes they make a bike rideable for a bigger range of riders whithout putting the cost of the bike up. Triples are for mountains pure and simple. If you plan or riding mountains and daft gradients then for a triple group is the only. I don't like comprimises. Compacts are cheaper that is why they get used it does not mean they are best.

Try living in Yorkshire and saying that! Nobody likes a compromise but when the landscape itself is a compromise, what can you do?!