Motorcycle Helmets for use on MTB downhill

tombrewerton

This year I am wanting to do some trackdays in my car and I'm also thinking of learning to ride a motorbike.
I have always ridden my push bike mountain bike in an open face helmet even when I have gone to say Aston hill or chicksands.
I have seen an off road motorbike helmet for sale on demon tweeks this has a removable visor so you can wear goggles.
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorcycl ... -ds-helmet

I would like to buy this for all three sports but my question is would this helmet be too heavy or have enough ventilation for use on a push bike going downhill.

CitizenLee

Far too heavy and un-ventilated for mtb use. Plus with proper mtb fullface lids you dont remove the visor to use goggles.

You can get a Giro Remedy or Specialized Deviant for around £100.

tombrewerton

I did think it might not be ventilated enough for MTB use. The removable visor is so you can use it either as a on road motorcycle helmet or as an mx off road helmet.

TheNorthernTrain

There was an article on pinkbike a while back.

Not suitable due to being built to resist different impact speeds or something. I'll see if I can find it, was quite an interesting read.

rockmonkeysc

MX Helmets are ok for downhill but not road motorcycle helmets. Even MX helmets can be a bit hot and heavy.
Road motorcycle helmets are designed for completely different types of impacts at higher speeds.
The other problem is you will ruin it very quickly, the lining isn't designed for getting muddy and the helmet won't take multiple impacts like a proper diwnhill or mx helmet.

cooldad

I don't know of any helmets designed to take multiple impacts.

rockmonkeysc

DH helmets don't need replacing after every impact, that would cost some riders a couple hundred pounds a weekend

DCR00

RockmonkeySC wrote:

DH helmets don't need replacing after every impact, that would cost some riders a couple hundred pounds a weekend

I'm quite surprised at this

I was under the impression that it was advisable to replace a helmet after an impact

I guess it depends on the force of the impact

cooldad

RockmonkeySC wrote:

DH helmets don't need replacing after every impact, that would cost some riders a couple hundred pounds a weekend

Only rubbish ones who fall off a lot.

But I challenge you to find any helmet manufacturer, of any type of helmet, made of anything, that doesn't tell you to chuck it after an impact.

cooldad

Obviously most people don't after a minor impact - I seem to use mine to deflect tree branches mainly, but any significant impact the helmet has done it's job.

rockmonkeysc

cooldad wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

DH helmets don't need replacing after every impact, that would cost some riders a couple hundred pounds a weekend

Only rubbish ones who fall off a lot.

But I challenge you to find any helmet manufacturer, of any type of helmet, made of anything, that doesn't tell you to chuck it after an impact.

Rubbish riders or good riders sessioning difficult lines! I have seen a pro rider crash on the same rock garden five or six times trying to make a crazy line work.
Manufacturers will of course tell you to replace after every impact but they will take several minor impacts. I replace mine after a big crash.
Not sure a road motorcycle helmet will take lots of minor impacts like that.

Stevo_666

I've got a couple of MTB FF lids and a motorbike lid I used for trackadays so can compare directly. The motorbike lid is too heavy and would be too sweaty in warm weather. Also it's probably not designed to keep any goggle straps in place. Get a proper FF MTB helmet for the DH stuff.

TheNorthernTrain

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/DH-Helmets ... Safer.html

Here we go. Can't remember if this is the exact article I was thinking of but if not it does the job.

Kowalski675

RockmonkeySC wrote:

The other problem is you will ruin it very quickly, the lining isn't designed for getting muddy and the helmet won't take multiple impacts like a proper diwnhill or mx helmet.

That is quite probably the most stupid sentence I've ever read on this forum (if not anywhere). No helmet is designed to take multiple impacts. They're a one time deal - you crash it, you bin it (or continue to ride in an unsafe helmet). Any impact minor enough not to compromise a DH helmet wouldn't compromise a motorcycle helmet either - they're designed to cope with bigger impacts than even the fastest DH racers will experience.

The Hornet DS has a removable, washable interior (as do most decent lids), but it would be too heavy for MTB use. It's not even designed for proper off road motorcycling - it's a road lid that can take goggles for Charley Boarman wannabes who want to do a bit of gentle greenlaning on their 2 wheeled Chelsea tractors.

poah

because of what cycle helmets are made of they need to be replaced after a hard impact. small offs are not going to do anything to a helmet

Kowalski675

POAH wrote:

because of what cycle helmets are made of they need to be replaced after a hard impact. small offs are not going to do anything to a helmet

A glancing blow from an overhanging branch (for example) won't do any harm, but even a small off where your head meets anything stationary can render a helmet scrap, and you won't necessarily be able to see the damage with the naked eye.

tombrewerton

Interesting pinkbike article. I think everyone is right it would too hot to wear exerting energy pedeling or roaring down a hill. The more you spend on open face helmets usually they have better ventilation since they are all built to the same safety standards.
Motorbike helmets are designed for higher speed impact crashes so as the article says maybe too stiff due to the industry regulations.
Branch hits to the helmet, I don't think are worthy of replacement but crashes where you hit something with your helmet/head are worthy of replacing. As is replacing after about 5 years.
I think after what has been said it is better to have two separate helmets. I'm making this decision really on the weight issue because it his not comfortable to have a heavy helmet.

CitizenLee

A carbon DH lid will be the lightest, but at considerable cost.

rockmonkeysc

CitizenLee wrote:

A carbon DH lid will be the lightest, but at considerable cost.

Not necessarily. A Urge Down-O-Matic is lighter than most carbon helmets (Including Troy Lee D3) and if you shop around you can get one for under £100. There are others as well.

DCR00

Plenty of 661 helmets on CRC for around the £60 mark

I paid £70 for my Fox Rampage. TBH i was quite surprised at how light it was when i first started using it. The expectation was that it would be heavy, but thats just not the case.

Cqc

Who would spend £300 on a Tory lee helmet if they were going to bin it after one crash? I wouldn't spend £30 on a helmet if I knew I would have to buy a new one soon! That stuff is rubbish

Stevo_666

Agree with DCR and Rockmonkey on that. A good composite will be fine for what you need and the difference in weight is often not noticeable - which is the case for my two DH lids.

poah

if my 9 year old can wear a bog standard 661 comp helmet without any issues I can't see an adult having issues withone either. I don't really notice my FF helmet at the moment but that may change come summer lol

CitizenLee

RockmonkeySC wrote:

CitizenLee wrote:

A carbon DH lid will be the lightest, but at considerable cost.

Not necessarily. A Urge Down-O-Matic is lighter than most carbon helmets (Including Troy Lee D3) and if you shop around you can get one for under £100. There are others as well.

Not a fan myself of Urge styling personally, but always good to have more choice.

I'd never shell out for a TLD though. I don't care what anyone says, your paying for the paint job, and I'm not a fan of flashy MX graphics.

Happy with my basic Remedy

rockmonkeysc

Troy Lee aren't just about fancy styling and weight. The quality of the lining is superb and lasts for years. I might consider one if I can find one discounted to around £250 which they often are when colours get discontinued.
Light weight helmets also put less strain on your neck in crashes.

Cqc

They won't last years if you bin one the second you crash though...

cooldad

Unless you are a toddler, most crashes you don't actually land on your head.

rockmonkeysc

DH crashes are usually fast and over the bars so there's usually a bit of bouncing around so it's quite normal to bump your head and often smash the peak.
Why do they sell replacement peaks if you have to replace the helmet after a bash, the Urge peaks are designed to not break in impacts which would suggest that the helmet can take a few minor bumps.

cooldad

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Why do they sell replacement peaks if you have to replace the helmet after a bash,

I don't know, perhaps ask the manufacturers. Maybe so you can match them to your riding gear. ,

Northwind

Weight is a big deal in a helmet, heavier lids put more stress on the cervical spine in a crash, for obvious reasons but they also change the forces on your head- more momentum means higher dwell times. It's not just the g-forces you experience as your head decelerates that causes damage, it's also the length of time you experience those g-forces, and heavier lids can increase that by a lot.

The tricky thing is that helmets do various different jobs, so sure, if you were going to get jagged in the head with a spiky rock, you'd want a heavy, stiff one as that's all about dissipating that threat. But if you're going to bang your head really hard on a flat surface, you're better off with a softer, lighter helmet which will absorb more force, more slowly. Even within single disciplines there's arguments about this- the CEN and Snell tests for motorbike helmets prioritise things differently, Snell is designed more for penetration resistance, CEN more for dissipation.

cooldad wrote:

But I challenge you to find any helmet manufacturer, of any type of helmet, made of anything, that doesn't tell you to chuck it after an impact.

Arai- they offer an inspection service and I've had helmets which have been properly smacked pass with flying colours. Even one with chunks out of the shell.

I agree with replacing a helmet after a decent sized impact but not after every minor spill. Course where it gets hard is deciding where that line is.

cooldad

Northwind wrote:

cooldad wrote:

But I challenge you to find any helmet manufacturer, of any type of helmet, made of anything, that doesn't tell you to chuck it after an impact.

Arai- they offer an inspection service and I've had helmets which have been properly smacked pass with flying colours. Even one with chunks out of the shell.

I agree with replacing a helmet after a decent sized impact but not after every minor spill. Course where it gets hard is deciding where that line is.

Fair enough, but Arai are still telling you to get it checked after a crash.

Similar from Troy Lee manual:

"Helmets are designed to absorb ONE impact. After your helmet has been involved in one impact you must destroy
it and replace it. Your helmet is designed to distribute the localized force of an impact over a larger area on the helmet. Even if your helmet looks undamaged its useful life is finished after one impact and will no longer provide protection in an accident.
With a sufficient impact, the helmet’s impact absorbing liner (EPS or “expanded polystyrene”) becomes compacted. Once this has happened, the helmet no longer has the ability to absorb further impacts and protect your head. If you have any doubts for example, if you drop your helmet or if it is hit by something and you are not sure if the impact was sufficient to damage the helmet contact Troy Lee Designs before you use the helmet again".

Pretty unambiguous.