Refurb - campagnolo delta brakes

Simmo72

Working on a refurb of my old early 90’s Rob Telfer Columbus frame, kitted out with chorus and c record
Except:
Modern Saddle, I ride with what fits my arse today, not 22 years ago
Modern Pedals and Handlebars
And most importantly brake pads for my delta brakes that actually do the job of slowing you down at the required rate. I don't want an original replacement set as they are rubbish.

Does anyone know what alternative brake cartridge I can use? I don’t mind a bit of DIY to make it fit.
The original deltas pads are really thick so you can’t just stick a modern set on as the gap is too great. I need to come up with some sort of thick spacer to fill the gap.
The purists will baulk but I don’t care, I think they would look great with a set of Swiss stops on them providing the cartridge is a matching material. Take something old and make it better!

Also, any recommendations for a frame respray in the South east? Probably going to be a single colour but this frame is too good for a simple powder coat.

Monty Dog

Probably best asking the brake block question on Retrobike - not sure you have much choice though unless you start adapting a modern block to fit.

In terms of resprays, there's Armourtex for powdercoat, Mario Vaz (opinions vary) and Colourtech in Dartford that I know of.

ugo.santalucia

Upgrading the original delta pads is a good idea, as they were notoriously awful... I am not sure I understand the problem though...

cycleclinic

I think the pads used on the delta brakes look different to modern pads. I am not sure modern pads will sit properly on delta brakes they might sit a bit skewiff. I am not certain though you will have to try but it is probably worth getting pads for pre 2000 campagnolo brakes, I know koolstop do them do them.

For resprays I use Brekland Finishing in Thetford a bit far though from Hampshire.

gfk_velo

We have a very limited number of original Delta pads left in stock - please PM me.

There isn't a convenient modern replacement for the Delta pad assembly - the carrier and pad are quite deep and the shoe & washering system used to support the pad is designed in such a way as to allow the pads to align with the fairly steep-sided "V" shaped rims that were often used on TT bikes of the era- Campag Omega, Wolber Profil and the like.

It is possible to Kludge something together that will work but I'd be very cautious about doing that on the brakes, of all places ...

Don't listen to the guys that say things like "the pads were notoriously bad", or that Delta brakes don't stop you -it's actually not at all true.

The pads were the same material that Campag used on the square pattern pads used in the Cobalto (and other) brakes of the same era.

The biggest problem with Deltas was that people failed dismally to set them up correctly, with the corresponding lever - fitted correctly with the right lever and with the pad spacing away from the rim set at 2-3mm (not the "almost brushing" set up that most mechanics used at the time) the brakes gave excellent modulation and very good stopping power - I still have a pair and use them on my racing tandem without any issues at all. They anchor 140 kg of combined rider weight down from 50kmh plus quite regularly, quite nicely, thank you ... correctly set up they were the equal of any of the side-pulls available in their day and were better than most then, and still outperform a good few today.

Demon descenders of the C-Record / Delta era, like Sean Yates (he was on Campag equipped bikes at Fagor, etc ...) never seemed to have any great issues with them in the Alps or Pyrenees. Stephen Roche used Deltas at various points all the way through his 1987 "Triple" season, as did Fignon in 87, 88 and 89 ... I mention this because at the time all the Campag-sponsored teams and riders had the choice to use Deltas or standard side-pulls & teams / riders would certainly not opt for inferior braking and Roche, especially, was very particular about his bike and and was (and is) an excellent mechanic ...

The difference in the block spacing away from the rim is because of the way that the linkages inside the case work - they need to be closed to certain point before you get maximum mechanical advantage out of them. The correct lever for the Deltas had a correspondingly longer cable pull per lever movement so that the lever isn't against the bar before the brake acts. Campag actually did three versions of the lever - a version that allowed either "Aero" or out-of-the-top cable routes (aero was achieved with a specially curved plate that fitted inside the lever blade to carry the cable out of the back of the lever), a dedicated aero lever and last and most often (mis) used, an aero lever with adjustable pull ratio, which could be optimised for Cobalto or Delta brakes.

HTH

Graeme
Velotech Cycling Ltd
Campagnolo Main UK Service Centre
http://www.velotech-cycling.ltd.uk

ugo.santalucia

gfk_velo wrote:

fairly steep-sided "V" shaped rims that were often used on TT bikes of the era- Campag Omega, Wolber Profil and the like.

Don't listen to the guys that say things like "the pads were notoriously bad", or that Delta brakes don't stop you -it's actually not at all true.

HTH

Graeme
Velotech Cycling Ltd
Campagnolo Main UK Service Centre
http://www.velotech-cycling.ltd.uk

As I understand, there was a problem with the first generation of pad material, that was subsequently changed... I have read that on the Campagnolo 75 years of cycling passion book, it's not internet bullxxit.
I have also read of someone using modern pads successfully, so it must be somehow possible, although this is internet rumour

And here are my Omega V, indeed steep, although here with a Super Record setup

gfk_velo

Hi Ugo, you are right in that the pad material was changed but in reality, it only affected the 1st half of the first years production. The biggest problem was set-up, for sure - I worked on a good number of pro's and amateurs bikes at the time and we never had an issue.

As I say, you can kludge something together, especially where a squarer-shaped rim is converned but I'd be very cautious about going too far away from the designed solution on brakes - I have seen too many horrible things happen over the years ...

GFK

ugo.santalucia

gfk_velo wrote:

As I say, you can kludge something together, especially where a squarer-shaped rim is converned but I'd be very cautious about going too far away from the designed solution on brakes - I have seen too many horrible things happen over the years ...

GFK

I use square SR pads on the Omega V and they do brake fine... although in fairness these are my TT wheels and I don't use them for trips to the alps... I don't think they were ever meant to be used in demanding braking conditions, as they are not machined and the surface is curved. I have done the same with the Wolber Profil 18 in the past and also found the braking OK, although the judder at the rim joint was too much to bear and I sold them as track rims

rolf_f

Simmo72 wrote:

Does anyone know what alternative brake cartridge I can use? I don’t mind a bit of DIY to make it fit.
The original deltas pads are really thick so you can’t just stick a modern set on as the gap is too great. I need to come up with some sort of thick spacer to fill the gap.
The purists will baulk but I don’t care, I think they would look great with a set of Swiss stops on them providing the cartridge is a matching material. Take something old and make it better!

The purists won't mind. They've seen worse......



Picture taken a day or two after the Paris Triathlon last year. There's quite a lot to enjoy in this pic if you look carefully!

Simmo72

Shocking images from Paris. the owner of that bike should be dragged through the cobbled streets.

Simmo72

Thanks for all the info. Yep i've got a 3rd generation set so most of the design issues were resolved and using them last summer they were almost good, not great, I made sure I had 3-4mm clearance. Used them on Omega and open 4cd rims without issue. My reason for wanting to put some modern pads on was to future proof them, the originals are running out and are expensive, i expect these to last many a year on a special occassion summer ride.

I reckon there is some small little engineering workshop out there that can put something reliable together instead of what i can cobble together.

BG2000

Simmo72 wrote:

Working on a refurb of my old early 90’s Rob Telfer Columbus frame, kitted out with chorus and c record
Except:
Modern Saddle, I ride with what fits my ars* today, not 22 years ago
Modern Pedals and Handlebars

Too right about the contact points - saddles and bars have much better shapes nowadays. Last year when I built up a nice 'retro-ish' bike (531c frame, Record groupset), I initially put a Rolls saddle on and Cinelli stem/bars. It looked great but didn't feel nice. I finally replaced the Rolls with a Specialized Phenom and ditched the crappy quill stem and bars for a set of FSA Vero Compact bars (using 1" quill to 1-1/8" aheadset convertor) and it feels great now, and still looks good.

SJLcp

Hi

I agree with the gfk above that delta's do work well when correctly set up. Its amazing how many people will tell you how bad they are but have never actually tried them! I would try and source the original pads rather than replace, the arms have oversized holes and wont fit modern pad holders. The last time I bought a set of ebay they were £20 which isn't bad since they last for ages. I have also had success with koolstop retro pads trimmed to fit the delta pad holders in an effort to reduce squeal. The best way to avoid this is to toe the pads in,

Also agree that delta's like to be run "open" and with the correct levers when they will be surprisingly light an powerful.

Lastly, the Croce D'Aune delta's have slotted pad holders and have enough clearance to be run with 35mm SKS mudguards on a suitable frame.