Is everybody soft now?

nickyburnell

Hi all, I came back to cycling a couple of years ago, I'm now 53, 100kg plus and fine if it's not too hilly!
I previously left cycling in 78 after finding girls and cars. Recently I found an old Audax certificate for 100 miles, Hampton Court to Worthing and back. The time was 5 hours, 5 mins. I was 16, just, not massively fit, my "10" time was about 26mins. So to my point, I remember getting to Worthing, having enough money for a fry up, re filled my one bottle from a fountain and then joined our bunch to return. Then cycled another 8 miles home. What is it with all these feed stations now? Recently I read an article that had one at 12 miles! Our Sunday runs of 50 miles never had feed stations, tea and a biscuit maybe?
Today I'm constantly amazed at the constant stopping to re-fuel, a girl I ride with just stops if she doesn't eat.
So in all seriousness what is this? None of our old club used to do it (Twickenham CC) so I know it's not just lucky old me. Has everyone gone soft? Same issue with gears, I had 45 x 20 as my bottom gear, got up Box hill, Leith Hill and all the others on Sunday runs, now we're told a compact is mandatory. Big records were set in the old days, especially by Women on 80 odd inch fixed gears.
I suppose a comparison could be made between the African barefoot runners and the, "Soft" (!) Nike wearing competitors.
None of the above is meant to be inflammatory, I'm genuinely interested in peoples thoughts.

buckles

If it's not meant to be inflammatory, perhaps try re-reading your post and imagine how it comes across to other people.

I agree that feed stations at small intervals aren't necessary for me, and that compact chainsets aren't necessary for me... however I accept that other people are different. Your apparent smug sense of superiority seems to have blinded you to the fact that many more people are taking up cycling nowadays and not all of them are as physically capable or determined as you might be.

desweller

You're awesome, you are. I wish I was as awesome as you.

rolf_f

nickyburnell wrote:

Same issue with gears, I had 45 x 20 as my bottom gear, got up Box hill, Leith Hill and all the others on Sunday runs, now we're told a compact is mandatory.

You might find that you are 'fine' if it is too hilly if you get yourself some sensible gears......

People don't use compacts because 'they aren't hard enough for a standard' - they use them because they are often the right tool for the job.

Has it not occurred to you that things might be different because they are better (in some ways)l? Maybe a ride has a feed stop at 12 miles to encourage non cyclists to give it a go. There's plenty of folk at work that would look somewhat appalled at the idea of riding 12 miles let alone 24. A feed stop half way might make the difference between them doing it or not.

vimfuego

You sound just a bloke in my club - the only time you ever hear from him in the club newsletter it's to be-moan new fangled technology (compact chainsets are the poorly engineered tomfoolery of the devil), "Ah never need t'helmet", and how everything used to be fields and he used to regularly ride up Ben Nevis on a fixie, not like today's generation on their modern contraptions that are effectively equal to mechanical doping - apparently. Well sir, it's called progress. As per previous posts, use whatever works for you, but it doesn't apply to everyone. I switched to a compact a few years ago after 5 or 6 years of grinding round on a standard double. My knees thanked me for it and I wouldn't look back (except at the overweight plodders on standard doubles that I regularly pass on climbs in sportives). It's easy to look back with fond nostalgia on the past & when you grew up with something, it's what you knew and were used to - the same goes for today's riding generation - I'm sure we'll bemoan future tech and be slow to adopt it when we reach a certain point in our "careers". Celebrate where you came from by all means , but never forget though - the good old '70s also gave you unchecked trade unionism, the Austin Allegro and polyester suits...............

Vive la difference!

gozzy

Yes, apparently so.

JackPozzi

I'm not soft at the moment. but then I have only just woken up.

markhewitt1978

Wow. Typical complete lack of empathy. It's fine for me so this must be the case for everybody.

pianoman

On the point of lower/higher gears, someone in a bike shop told me the other day that compacts are seen as the new standard. In any case it's quite the joke in my club how I sometimes end up "spinning" 50X11 at a sub-60 cadence, though that's normally because I'm trying to save my lungs and energy reserves for the cafe sprint :P

On a semi-related point, although we must have events to attract newbies who, as has been pointed out, couldn't even contemplate 100 miles on a fixie, more people really need to understand that there comes a point where you don't need anything like as much fuelling as you used to; that's why, after 8 years of mixing energy powders into my bottles on most rides, I've decided to give up on them, even for all-day efforts, they're so flawed as they reduce your own efficiency when it comes to using the 100,000+ calories we all have in our bodies as fat burn. Now, granted, the likes of SIS GO and High5 EnergySource aren't the only ones responsible for the bad mess I and others have got into, because since the OP did that 100 miler all those decades ago the standard of the Western diet in general has plunged to newfound depths, and the amount of kids you see drinking cans of Coke makes you wonder how on earth some of them are brought up. But the high price, high sugar content and wild claims from the manufacturers that "this latest elderberry-flavoured powder WILL make you go faster" makes them such a easy target.

So while I think it's a bit much for the OP to think everyone needs to MAN UP and ONLY use 54/45 chainsets (even if I'm quite the joke in my club for tackling some climbs in far too big a gear) I do agree with him that some people need to stop relying on excess energy intake give "fasting" rides a try, especially at this time of year when we all ride slower anyway, and in particular, cut the sugar. Besides, the Christmas turkey sandwich I had at a cafe the other week - after 55 miles of riding on nothing but my breakfast - was tastier and more nutrionally complete anyway Oh and don't those African barefoot runners go out before breakfast for two-hour runs on empty stomachs? I haven't force myself to those lengths yet, in the name of fat-burn efficiency, but give it time........

chris_bass

DesWeller wrote:

You're awesome, you are. I wish I was as awesome as you.

there just isnt enough awesome in this world to make two people as awesome as the OP. if there were the universe would implode!

edhornby

diets have changed and nutritional knowledge and advice is different from what was known in the 70s

even Eddy Merckx said the same thing when he was interviewed for the cycle show [paraphrasing] 'we used to eat steak every morning before a race... that was totally the wrong thing to do'

so yes it is possible to do fifty miles, have a full fry up then do another fifty - or you can do 20ish, grab food from a table at the roadside like a banana or a bar, keep riding and do the same at 40, 70 and do the entire ride not stopping; the world changes

sloppyschleckonds

There is an awful lot of bollix spouted nowadays…..I blame Wiggle. Or the internet.

c40nl12

on a fixie

If he was old school he would say "Fixed", as we all should.

iPete

Lots of people are going to flame the OP but yes a lot of people have gone soft.

Basics are lost on new riders like being self sufficient. Things I've passed onto my mates who have started in the sport in the last year. Things that I got horribly wrong myself and learnt the hard way.

And people seem to think you are nuts for going out in a bit of grey weather but then most people have completely disconnected with the world. Wake up, walk to car, drive to work, sit inside all day, drive home, repeat. Go out in the rain, are you mental!

You can either use your experience to help the uninitiated or be moany. I like to do both

pianoman

They shouldn't flame him, even though I would have done so 10 years ago as if to say "are you trying to put me off joining your club" - these days I'd absolutely agree with him, sometimes the truth hurts and people need to accept that, though I'm not sure I agree on the point regarding chainsets, how many people really need 53x11 (and I often get pulled up for "only" doing 22mph while grinding 50x11 so that gives you an idea of why compact seems to be the new standard).

By the same token I had my best ever years' racing in 2013 after a winter when I purposely went out on my heaviest training wheels for every ride. When I was worthy of a better set in the summer (Ksyrium Elites) all that training was worth it and I even had my best club hillclimb to date

Bustacapp

this you OP?

mercia_man

I reckon it's a good thing that organisers provide feed stations and that developments like compact gears are widely available. It all helps to make cycling more accessible to all.

On the other hand, I think the OP is right to poke a bit of fun at all this focus on nutrition and hydration nowadays. It's the same in the running world. I find it amusing to see all these people carrying water with them and listening to music on earphones while competing in a 5k road race lasting all of 30 minutes. You don't get softies like that in fell-running!

ugo.santalucia

It's a discussion worth having and the grumpy old OP has a point... we are extremely needy and whilst the need for water hydration is real, the need for a constant supply of electrolites is simply ludicrous, as is the need for athlete tailored food that costs only in slight defect of the price of a precious metal. The need for 6 Kg bicycles and 34 x 29 gears to overcome the smallest hills in Europe is also a bit pathetic...
We are very needy, it's a fact...

Jay_Pea

Classic internet forum over reaction

If you're happy spinning 34:32 on your hydro disc brake equipped, wifli electronic 11 speed carbon fibre rig then great. Equally if you want to ride helmetless on your steel framed, hernia inducing, 45:20 geared 5 bar gate then great. Either way chill out it's only cycling.

P.S. For the avoidance of doubt feedstops every 10 minutes and being reliant on "energy products" is 100% soft, there's nothing a recreational cyclist can acomplish using brightly packaged sugar that they can't do with real food.

Edit: I have both plastic and metal bikes I'm happy with 10 sprockets on the back and cable rim brakes, all bikes have a 53/39 chainset and I don't do too badly on them. I have also ridden compact chainsets.

littledove44

ugo.santalucia wrote:

It's a discussion worth having and the grumpy old OP has a point... we are extremely needy and whilst the need for water hydration is real, the need for a constant supply of electrolites is simply ludicrous, as is the need for athlete tailored food that costs only in slight defect of the price of a precious metal. The need for 6 Kg bicycles and 34 x 29 gears to overcome the smallest hills in Europe is also a bit pathetic...
We are very needy, it's a fact...

So needy in fact that at 56 I would never dream of going out on 34x29.

I have 34 x 34 instead.

chrisaonabike

I agree with the OP. Anyone that can't complete a 100 mile ride in about 5 hours with just one bottle refill shouldn't even be allowed on a bike. They should stop cluttering the roads up.

:roll:

ugo.santalucia

littledove44 wrote:

So needy in fact that at 56 I would never dream of going out on 34x29.

I have 34 x 34 instead.

You got in your head that you need it, but you don't... the point of the thread is to debate whether we have become soft, meaning that we won't attempt the smallest challenge unless we have the best/easiest option... bit the same we were arguing about a week or so ago on the charity side...

In your area YOU can happily ride with normal gears, then of course you have a million reasons to ride what you want.

Bozman

There is something to what the op says, you have the choice of an easy option now but you never used to, if you're given the easy option you'll generally take it.
When I bought my first road bike(Raleigh Dyna Tech) in the early/mid Nineties it came with a 53/42 chainset and a 12/25 cassette, there was no option and I knew no different so I just got on with it.
The 42 went eventually and was replaced with a 39 when I was told that it would make my life easier.(I was still getting up the hills but apparently it looked like a fight).
I stopped using a standard about 2 or 3 years ago, It took me a while to get used to and I ran an 11/23 for a while to iron out a few creases but there's not a lot of difference, I don't think I'm going up the hills any faster but I am older now.

rolf_f

Bozman wrote:

There is something to what the op says, you have the choice of an easy option now but you never used to, if you're given the easy option you'll generally take it.
When I bought my first road bike(Raleigh Dyna Tech) in the early/mid Nineties it came with a 53/42 chainset and a 12/25 cassette, there was no option and I knew no different so I just got on with it.

I think that the thing is, to make this argument with reference eg to compacts is plainly wrong. Compacts are one of the few developments in road biking in the last 30 years that have actually made a real difference. Where we are soft is in terms of what we do with those bikes - I think we ride less far on much lighter bikes than people did 50 or more years ago. Maybe the lack of internet telling them not to be so hard was the problem!

chris_bass

my take on it is that a lot more people cycle these days, the proportion of hard as nails OP wannabes is probably the same as is the proportion of 'soft' OP nemeses, but the volumes have increased so you might notice more softer people about! that and the whole obesity epidemic and people seeing (and rightly) that cycling is a good way to get some level of fitness back.

junglist_matty

I don't have a compact, can I join the hard man club please!? :roll:

bompington

It's intriguing, the "big ring" mythology (the epitome being the website of that name). The thing is, we still feel its pull, don't we - however ridiculous.
I have felt the entirely unjustified pride at grinding it out with my massive gears, even as others are spinning up the hill on their compacts at pretty near twice the speed.
And I feel the lurking shame of buying a 48/34 just 'cos I need a new chainset and it was really cheap... goodness only knows how I'll feel once I've actually fitted it.

Iamnot Wiggins

Some of us just like eating. And if we can combine cake with cycling then I'm all for it!

Jon_1976

ugo.santalucia wrote:

littledove44 wrote:

So needy in fact that at 56 I would never dream of going out on 34x29.

I have 34 x 34 instead.

You got in your head that you need it, but you don't... the point of the thread is to debate whether we have become soft, meaning that we won't attempt the smallest challenge unless we have the best/easiest option.

I've done a reasonable amount of miles this years (just under 5k) on a compact (34x28) and never suffered any ailments at all. At the start of November, I briefly had a job at TNT doing the postie role using their super heavy 3 speed mailstar bikes with up 35kg of mail. On that bike, I was only doing about 10 miles a day in a not too hilly area and it was agony. My knees were hurting for days. I'm pretty sure that wasn't psychological.

I'd rather be a soft arse on a compact than spending my time hobbling round with sore knees.

marcusjb

junglist_matty wrote:

I don't have a compact, can I join the hard man club please!? :roll:

Me neither.

A couple of bikes with a triple, a hub geared bike and a fixed wheel bike.

I'm happily a member of the softies club. I used to be able to push a standard over pretty much anything, but a lung operation put an end to those sort of shenanigans.

BillyMansell

The OP has to realise that the world is constantly moving on. They may think they were hard in the 70's but they were soft compared to those riding in the thirties - Tommy Godwin anyone?

Cycling is just different these days. Back in the day you had to join a club if you wanted to get into cycling and your choice of equipment was limited, throw in different socio-economic factors and there probably was more an attitude of MTFU and make do and mend.

Today we have more choice and freedom and greater access to information before even sitting on a bike, which can be good but with the growth in information has come a growth in the myth and magic around cycling that can misinform people.