Reversing brake lever cables

dyrlac

So, I've recently taken up commuting seriously in London after many years off the bike. 18 km each way through typical London traffic. To avoid stalling out by trying to push on too big of a gear when the lights change (reached via sprinting from the previous light in the top gear for a bit of SCR, naturally), I'm finally remembering to downshift *before* getting to the lights or ped crossing or whatever. The problem is that downshifting the cassette whilst braking the front wheel requires two different motions on the same lever (off the bike for so long that STI is new to me, amazing what they can do now!). So I feel like I'm always compromising either the braking or the downshifting. This seems inefficient at best. It would seem that swapping the front and rear brake cables so that they go to the "wrong" lever would do the trick, then I could brake up front on the left while dropping down the sprockets on the right. How unsound is this plan from a technical, efficiency or safety standpoint?

Caveats:
* Sure, I could always achieve an easier start by dropping to the little ring, but the whole point of a cyclocross gear set up (46/36;12-26) is that you *always* push the big ring.
* I suppose I could also simply be uncoordinated.

sungod

i commute in london too

if you're in top gear, sounds like your cadence is way too low, or you are travelling remarkably fast for london traffic!

just coast and change down waaaaaay before you need to brake, aim for cadence 90+, you'll accelerate faster on green

BillyMansell

Technically it's easy enough and from what you describe of your situation it could improve efficiency and safety.

There's no absolute right or wrong when it comes to which lever controls which caliper. Try it and if you don't like it you can swap them back.

dyrlac

sungod wrote:

if you're in top gear, sounds like your cadence is way too low, or you are travelling remarkably fast for london traffic!

OK, so maybe not *quite* top gear, although my calculator figures 90 cadence at 46x12 is "only" 44 kph/27.5mph, a high but not totally outrageous number on the CS8 for the Millbank sprint, even in rush hour. Getting a cadence sensor in my stocking (although since it's another toy for "that damn bike" I may end up with coal instead) so I'll be able to monitor easier.

BillyMansell wrote:

There's no real right or wrong when it comes to which lever controls which caliper. Try it and if you don't like it you can swap them back.

Cheers! I think I read somewhere it actually is reversed in the States, but does that go for the gearing as well?

charlie_potatoes

The brakes (but not the gears) are reversed in Europe as well.

rolf_f

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

The brakes (but not the gears) are reversed in Europe as well.

Which is how they are designed - ie that the left lever controls front brakes and front mech and the right lever controls rear brakes and rear mech. It's all so zen when you know

charlie_potatoes

Rolf F wrote:

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

The brakes (but not the gears) are reversed in Europe as well.

Which is how they are designed - ie that the left lever controls front brakes and front mech and the right lever controls rear brakes and rear mech. It's all so zen when you know

I got on well with it when I hired a bike earlier in the year.
I might swap mine over.

earthvspace4XTuUWcX

I set my bikes up the European way, ie front brake is the left lever. As you say, easier to brake and change gear at the same time, also better when turning right as you can brake and signal at the same time. Also cable runs on the bike are better.

buckles

Sounds like a good idea to me. I prefer the brake I use most to be in my 'best' hand (i.e. right hand) so would rather have the rear shifter on the left and keep the front brake on the right... sadly this doesn't seem to be possible!

buckles

xdoc wrote:

I set my bikes up the European way, ie front brake is the left lever. As you say, easier to brake and change gear at the same time, also better when turning right as you can brake and signal at the same time. Also cable runs on the bike are better.

Ironic that the Euro way is better in that respect for riding in countries that require you to ride on the other side of the road, yet the UK way is better for riding on the continent

paulbnix

I heard a theory that says the brakes are as they are so you can slow down "safely" using the back brake whilst signalling to cross the road ie. in the UK signalling with your right hand, on the continent with your left.

buckles

paulbnix wrote:

I heard a theory that says the brakes are as they are so you can slow down "safely" using the back brake whilst signalling to cross the road ie. in the UK signalling with your right hand, on the continent with your left.

If that's true it's not the best logic... maybe it helps stop inexperienced riders from catapulting themselves over the handlebars, but I know I'd rather be using the brake with the most stopping power (i.e. the front one)

rolf_f

paulbnix wrote:

I heard a theory that says the brakes are as they are so you can slow down "safely" using the back brake whilst signalling to cross the road ie. in the UK signalling with your right hand, on the continent with your left.

The only problem with this argument being that you don't use your back brake as the principal means of deccelerating!

In practice, it's a distinction of minimal justification. I went Euro style for a better cable run to the front brake and I can happily switch between Euro and UK style til the cows come home. Ultimately though, if I was applying the logic of which hand to I want free for signalling and which for braking, I would indeed go UK style. This has nothing to do with turning right - quite the opposite. Normally, I don't have a problem with indicating and braking - the exception is the last turn on my commute home from work where I turn left off a steep descent. I can be doing 30mph before needing to slow down and the road surface is rough. Because of my speed, I need to indicate early which is where the bumps are - and the braking distance is long because of the gradient. So I have to brake firmly, release brake causing acceleration, indicate, brake firmly. It's not a big deal but if I had right front braking, I'd be able to avoid releasing the front brake. So for this one junction alone, I have a decent argument to switch! (But I won't)

paulbnix

I don't support the theory that I posted. I think the circumstances where you are gently applying the back brake whilst signalling with your other hand are not as frequent as those where you are braking hard, whipping out the signal and then carrying on braking.
In my case this puts the front brake on my stronger right hand.

rolf_f

paulbnix wrote:

I don't support the theory that I posted. I think the circumstances where you are gently applying the back brake whilst signalling with your other hand are not as frequent as those where you are braking hard, whipping out the signal and then carrying on braking.
In my case this puts the front brake on my stronger right hand.

I did spot the subtley of your wording!

Re the 'stronger right hand' thing. This is an often heard argument. Personally, under normal use I find no difference between my right and left. The only time finger strength does start to come into it in my experience is on long steep descents. But even then, when my hands are starting to ache, I never feel that things would be better if only I had right front. Do you actually feel that there is a real, rather than theoretical, benefit here?

charlie_potatoes

For me it is dexterity rather than strength difference between right and left hands

drlodge

xdoc wrote:

I set my bikes up the European way, ie front brake is the left lever. As you say, easier to brake and change gear at the same time, also better when turning right as you can brake and signal at the same time. Also cable runs on the bike are better.

+1

Found out when I hired a bike in Gran Canaria that the hire bike was setup the same as mine. Oh yeh, I was on "the continent"!

markhewitt1978

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

I got on well with it when I hired a bike earlier in the year.
I might swap mine over.

Same here, I'd expected it to confuse me massively but I took to it straight away and seemed quite natural. Indeed I wonder if it would be better for me, being able to operate the main brake, with my strongest (left) hand?

I'm planning on giving my bike a spring overhaul with new cables etc so wonder about swapping them over then, is there any routing advantages / disadvantages I need to be aware of if I did?

Monty Dog

I set all my bikes this way - I'm left handed and there's a better argument to say that I'd rather have better control whilst making the more risky manouevre (turning right) where there's a greater need to signal your intentions, rather than the need to take my left-hand off the bars to signal left where I'm exposing myself to less risk? The British Standard for bikes in an anachronism, much like the one for bike lights. Finally, the aesthetics of a left front brake are far better when running a short headtube, particularly when you cross-over the gear cables too to prevent cable-scuffing of the paint.

dyrlac

Thanks all. I'm having the bike serviced on Monday, and getting them swap the cables while they're at it. Will report back, although anyone heading south on the embankment around 1945 on Monday is highly advised to keep a close check on their 6 for an incoming silver cannondale, because that'll be the proving ground.

buckles

Monty Dog wrote:

...the aesthetics of a left front brake are far better when running a short headtube

Or any length headtube for that matter! Just one curve from handlebar to barrel adjuster instead of an S-curve... must make braking slightly smoother as well.

dyrlac

Well, tonight certainly made for an interesting test bed for the reversed cables. So wet that I didn't really have any brakes to speak of! But the muscle memory adjustment was quick enough and it did seem like I had a bit more control over simultaneous downshifting and braking. Cable aesthetics possibly over my head, they run under the bar tape for the most part, or am I missing something?

rolf_f

Dyrlac wrote:

Cable aesthetics possibly over my head, they run under the bar tape for the most part, or am I missing something?

Yes - the aesthetics are about what happens after they've come out of the bar tape!

hypster

As a motorcycle rider as well, I always associate right hand with front brake so all my bikes have always been set up this way. However, I think from a cable POV it would be better to do it the other way round but my muscle memory is too long in the tooth to change now!