Pellizotti

dish_dash
dish_dash Posts: 5,558
edited December 2013 in Pro race
Astana have dumped him after it became clear that MPCC membership posed challenges to hiring him. And now Savio is trying to re-sign him after having announced he wouldn't hire any more dope-linked riders.

Better for the future for cycling if Pellizotti left the sport, I would have though, and shame on Savio for his (hardly surprising) hypocrisy.

Interesting move by Astana though. I always wonder about their schizophrenic approach to being 'clean'...

Comments

  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Hmmm....Astana just being businessmen.

    As for Savio...no surprise WHATSOEVER
  • rayjay
    rayjay Posts: 1,384
    edited December 2013
    dish_dash wrote:
    Astana have dumped him after it became clear that MPCC membership posed challenges to hiring him. And now Savio is trying to re-sign him after having announced he wouldn't hire any more dope-linked riders.

    Better for the future for cycling if Pellezotti left the sport, I would have though, and shame on Savio for his (hardly surprising) hypocrisy.

    Interesting move by Astana though. I always wonder about their schizophrenic approach to being 'clean'...


    You don't know that. You cannot see the future. Do you have those kind of powers? Are you one of the x men :lol: Pellizotti could do some wonderful things and you will be left eating your words on a big plate of humble pie that's just come out of the oven set at gas mark egg on your face.

    I say let Pellizotti ride. I like his style. He's as clean as anyone riding.
    I have actually rode with him once when he was with Cannondale.
    We had a sort of nice chat through the language barrier.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,243
    At the time when Pellizotti had long curly hair I did have the pleasure to share the road with him... he was chatting his way up to Oropa with Di Luca testing the Time trial course, while I was panting my way trying to stick to their rear wheel... in vain.
    It would be a shame if a bunch of hypocrits prevented him from racing... the same people would probably raid pharmacies with fake prescriptions just a couple of years earlier
    left the forum March 2023
  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,558
    rayjay wrote:
    dish_dash wrote:
    Astana have dumped him after it became clear that MPCC membership posed challenges to hiring him. And now Savio is trying to re-sign him after having announced he wouldn't hire any more dope-linked riders.

    Better for the future for cycling if Pellezotti left the sport, I would have though, and shame on Savio for his (hardly surprising) hypocrisy.

    Interesting move by Astana though. I always wonder about their schizophrenic approach to being 'clean'...


    You don't know that. You cannot see the future. Do you have those kind of powers? Are you one of the x men :lol: Pellezotti could do some wonderful things and you will be left eating your words on a big plate of humble pie that's just come out of the oven set at gas mark egg on your face.

    I say let Pellezotti ride. I like his style. He's as clean as anyone riding.
    I have actually rode with him once when he was with Cannondale.
    We had a sort of nice chat through the language barrier.

    Given that I clearly indicated that Pellezotti not being part of the future of cycling was my opinion, the first half of your response is surreal...

    As for letting him ride. Signing him violates MPCC rules, as Astana have discovered. It was curious that they tried to subvert them to begin with. Though perhaps they are turning a corner... And as for Savio, why hypocrisy... I'd expect greater outrage from the guardians of the cycling community to be honest.
  • whiteboytrash
    whiteboytrash Posts: 594
    dish_dash wrote:
    rayjay wrote:
    dish_dash wrote:
    Astana have dumped him after it became clear that MPCC membership posed challenges to hiring him. And now Savio is trying to re-sign him after having announced he wouldn't hire any more dope-linked riders.

    Better for the future for cycling if Pellezotti left the sport, I would have though, and shame on Savio for his (hardly surprising) hypocrisy.

    Interesting move by Astana though. I always wonder about their schizophrenic approach to being 'clean'...


    You don't know that. You cannot see the future. Do you have those kind of powers? Are you one of the x men :lol: Pellezotti could do some wonderful things and you will be left eating your words on a big plate of humble pie that's just come out of the oven set at gas mark egg on your face.

    I say let Pellezotti ride. I like his style. He's as clean as anyone riding.
    I have actually rode with him once when he was with Cannondale.
    We had a sort of nice chat through the language barrier.

    Given that I clearly indicated that Pellezotti not being part of the future of cycling was my opinion, the first half of your response is surreal...

    As for letting him ride. Signing him violates MPCC rules, as Astana have discovered. It was curious that they tried to subvert them to begin with. Though perhaps they are turning a corner... And as for Savio, why hypocrisy... I'd expect greater outrage from the guardians of the cycling community to be honest.

    Violates MPCC rules?

    I think you mean it contravenes their membership.

    The MPCC is neither a ruling or anti-doping body. Just a ethics body which is voluntary to join.

    The alternate is to be like other teams and not join and be free to hire whom they please.

    The last point is the teams need to be careful of restraint of trade in Europe. Astana should be careful there. But I don't think Pelizotti wants another court proceeding.
  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,558
    FWIW, they call them rules... http://www.mpcc.fr/index.php/en/mpcc-uk
  • rayjay
    rayjay Posts: 1,384
    edited December 2013
    dish_dash First part of my post, just call it surreal humour.

    I agree with ugo.santalucia let him ride

    When I rode with Pellizotti I was turning on to a main road and he went riding past SRM on his bike, full kit on. I did not know who it was at first. I caught him up and went past him, he obviously was not going flat out. I turned round to see where he was and he was on my back wheel. I took off again and he just stuck to my back wheel. When we stopped at a main road he pulled alongside and only then did I realise who he was. He was a very nice. He even asked if I rode for a team :lol: He had already been riding for about 3 /4 hours from what I understood. I mean he looked like he had just rode up the shops. I had only done about 10 miles and was as fresh as a daisy. Those guys really put the miles and work in whatever you think of them.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,150
    rayjay wrote:
    When I rode with Pellezotti I was turning on to a main road and he went riding past SRM on his bike, full kit on. I did not know who it was at first. I caught him up and went past him, he obviously was not going flat out. I turned round to see where he was and he was on my back wheel. I took off again and he just stuck to my back wheel. When we stopped at a main road he pulled alongside and only then did I realise who he was. He was a very nice. He even asked if I rode for a team :lol: He had already been riding for about 3 /4 hours from what I understood. I mean he looked like he had just rode up the shops. I had only done about 10 miles and was as fresh as a daisy. Those guys really put the miles and work in whatever you think of them.
    So you rode at the same speed as a known doper. Therefore, you are a doper. That's how the logic works, right?
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,243
    It's worth poiting out that the correct spelling is PELLIZOTTI
    left the forum March 2023
  • rayjay
    rayjay Posts: 1,384
    RichN95 wrote:
    rayjay wrote:
    When I rode with Pellezotti I was turning on to a main road and he went riding past SRM on his bike, full kit on. I did not know who it was at first. I caught him up and went past him, he obviously was not going flat out. I turned round to see where he was and he was on my back wheel. I took off again and he just stuck to my back wheel. When we stopped at a main road he pulled alongside and only then did I realise who he was. He was a very nice. He even asked if I rode for a team :lol: He had already been riding for about 3 /4 hours from what I understood. I mean he looked like he had just rode up the shops. I had only done about 10 miles and was as fresh as a daisy. Those guys really put the miles and work in whatever you think of them.
    So you rode at the same speed as a known doper. Therefore, you are a doper. That's how the logic works, right?

    Rich, seriously. That's a really sad attempt to prove a point.
  • rayjay
    rayjay Posts: 1,384
    post delete
  • whiteboytrash
    whiteboytrash Posts: 594
    dish_dash wrote:
    FWIW, they call them rules... http://www.mpcc.fr/index.php/en/mpcc-uk

    Sure. But membership is voluntary. And they can call it anything they like. They could call it law! Not that it would be respected as such.

    Astana could easily withdraw their membership and look, no rules!

    My point is that by membership they agree to adhere to the rules of that membership. Other teams chose not to belong and thus break no rules.

    It really is showmanship. Like belonging to a ethics group. In the finance and legal professions there are many groups like this which mean little in a real world context.
  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,558
    whiteboytrash wrote:
    dish_dash wrote:
    FWIW, they call them rules... http://www.mpcc.fr/index.php/en/mpcc-uk

    Sure. But membership is voluntary. And they can call it anything they like. They could call it law! Not that it would be respected as such.

    Astana could easily withdraw their membership and look, no rules!

    My point is that by membership they agree to adhere to the rules of that membership. Other teams chose not to belong and thus break no rules.

    It really is showmanship. Like belonging to a ethics group. In the finance and legal professions there are many groups like this which mean little in a real world context.

    Whatever dude, go pick a fight with that wall over there.

    All I said was that signing Pellizotti violated MPCC rules, hence Astana have now ditched him. They valued their voluntary membership of MPCC over signing him. Surely that shows that the MPCC does have an impact in the real world... we now have a convicted doper who may not have a ride next year thanks to the Movement for Clean Cycling.
  • whiteboytrash
    whiteboytrash Posts: 594
    dish_dash wrote:
    whiteboytrash wrote:
    dish_dash wrote:
    FWIW, they call them rules... http://www.mpcc.fr/index.php/en/mpcc-uk

    Sure. But membership is voluntary. And they can call it anything they like. They could call it law! Not that it would be respected as such.

    Astana could easily withdraw their membership and look, no rules!

    My point is that by membership they agree to adhere to the rules of that membership. Other teams chose not to belong and thus break no rules.

    It really is showmanship. Like belonging to a ethics group. In the finance and legal professions there are many groups like this which mean little in a real world context.

    Whatever dude, go pick a fight with that wall over there.

    All I said was that signing Pellizotti violated MPCC rules, hence Astana have now ditched him. They valued their voluntary membership of MPCC over signing him. Surely that shows that the MPCC does have an impact in the real world... we now have a convicted doper who may not have a ride next year thanks to the Movement for Clean Cycling.

    I'm actually agreeing with you. I think it's a good thing what Astana have done.

    It's a pity the rest of the non-French teams don't care about it.

    Sky and Saxo don't belong so they can hire whom they like.
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    Is there anyone who hasn't ridden with him?

    Here's a photo I took on the Friday before Liege Bastogne Liege in 2003. You can see his big hair, 2nd rider from the right. Just in front of Laurent Dufaux.

    8001037271_1938720c96.jpg
  • rayjay
    rayjay Posts: 1,384
    My first road bike was a red Saeco cadd 5 . I wish I still had it.
    Nice photo . Cheers
  • Crankbrother
    Crankbrother Posts: 1,695
    So Pellizotti has taken, essentially, a 4 year ban because of dubious passport data rather than actually being caught with a positive and/or confession ... and is subsequently blackballed same as Landis, Ras (ASO embarrassment seems to be the defining factor) yet the riders on a team headed by a MPCC bigwig only do 6 months, whilst also allowing them to finish their careers on the grand(est) stage ... Hmmm ... politicking, controlling, bullying, only admitting when no option left ... Sounds familiar eh Vaughters?

    I'm guessing cycling would have suffered too much via loss of sponsors/races if AC had copped the same fate :?
  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,558
    Crankbrother wrote:
    So Pellizotti has taken, essentially, a 4 year ban because of dubious passport data rather than actually being caught with a positive and/or confession ... and is subsequently blackballed same as Landis, Ras (ASO embarrassment seems to be the defining factor) yet the riders on a team headed by a MPCC bigwig only do 6 months, whilst also allowing them to finish their careers on the grand(est) stage ... Hmmm ... politicking, controlling, bullying, only admitting when no option left ... Sounds familiar eh Vaughters?

    I'm guessing cycling would have suffered too much via loss of sponsors/races if AC had copped the same fate :?

    The 2 year plus rule only counts if the rider has been sanctioned with a ban of more than 6-months...

    "MPCC teams say they do not enter riders convicted (or recognized involved) in anti-doping violation under Articles 2.1 to 2.8 of the World Anti-Doping Code, which have been sanctioned more than 6 months by the court international or national body (excluding penalties for three breaches of geolocation system of administration and management ADAMS doping), within 2 years after the suspension." http://www.mpcc.fr/images/RI2210EN.pdf
  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,558
    Just realised that Savio is actually a "member of the MPCC office", so if he does find the sponsors to fund a re-signing of Pellizotti presumably he and Androni Giocattoli will be leaving the MPCC...
  • Crankbrother
    Crankbrother Posts: 1,695
    dish_dash wrote:
    Crankbrother wrote:
    So Pellizotti has taken, essentially, a 4 year ban because of dubious passport data rather than actually being caught with a positive and/or confession ... and is subsequently blackballed same as Landis, Ras (ASO embarrassment seems to be the defining factor) yet the riders on a team headed by a MPCC bigwig only do 6 months, whilst also allowing them to finish their careers on the grand(est) stage ... Hmmm ... politicking, controlling, bullying, only admitting when no option left ... Sounds familiar eh Vaughters?

    I'm guessing cycling would have suffered too much via loss of sponsors/races if AC had copped the same fate :?

    The 2 year plus rule only counts if the rider has been sanctioned with a ban of more than 6-months...

    "MPCC teams say they do not enter riders convicted (or recognized involved) in anti-doping violation under Articles 2.1 to 2.8 of the World Anti-Doping Code, which have been sanctioned more than 6 months by the court international or national body (excluding penalties for three breaches of geolocation system of administration and management ADAMS doping), within 2 years after the suspension." http://www.mpcc.fr/images/RI2210EN.pdf

    Yes, understood the >6 months rule ... Which actually makes the thing worse in terms of Vaughters involvement ...
  • whiteboytrash
    whiteboytrash Posts: 594
    Crankbrother wrote:
    So Pellizotti has taken, essentially, a 4 year ban because of dubious passport data rather than actually being caught with a positive and/or confession ... and is subsequently blackballed same as Landis, Ras (ASO embarrassment seems to be the defining factor) yet the riders on a team headed by a MPCC bigwig only do 6 months, whilst also allowing them to finish their careers on the grand(est) stage ... Hmmm ... politicking, controlling, bullying, only admitting when no option left ... Sounds familiar eh Vaughters?

    I'm guessing cycling would have suffered too much via loss of sponsors/races if AC had copped the same fate :?

    Yes and the anomaly was based on being tested per the passport twice in a 8 month period!

    Yes he was more than likely doping. But..... Armstrong wasn't in the same year?

    The passport has serious problems.
  • mike6
    mike6 Posts: 1,199
    dish_dash wrote:
    whiteboytrash wrote:
    dish_dash wrote:
    FWIW, they call them rules... http://www.mpcc.fr/index.php/en/mpcc-uk

    Sure. But membership is voluntary. And they can call it anything they like. They could call it law! Not that it would be respected as such.

    Astana could easily withdraw their membership and look, no rules!

    My point is that by membership they agree to adhere to the rules of that membership. Other teams chose not to belong and thus break no rules.

    It really is showmanship. Like belonging to a ethics group. In the finance and legal professions there are many groups like this which mean little in a real world context.

    Whatever dude, go pick a fight with that wall over there.

    All I said was that signing Pellizotti violated MPCC rules, hence Astana have now ditched him. They valued their voluntary membership of MPCC over signing him. Surely that shows that the MPCC does have an impact in the real world... we now have a convicted doper who may not have a ride next year thanks to the Movement for Clean Cycling.

    Nice one Dish, hope it works out and he is denied a ride next year. One less doper to poison the sport we love.

    Notice the double standards of the guys you are arguing with? :lol:
  • Crankbrother
    Crankbrother Posts: 1,695
    ^ One less suspected doper (he likely was at it but it was an 'in all likelihood' job rather than actual proof) and several more confessed serial dopers still riding in the peleton ... Great job MPCC ...
  • whiteboytrash
    whiteboytrash Posts: 594
    whiteboytrash wrote:
    Crankbrother wrote:
    So Pellizotti has taken, essentially, a 4 year ban because of dubious passport data rather than actually being caught with a positive and/or confession ... and is subsequently blackballed same as Landis, Ras (ASO embarrassment seems to be the defining factor) yet the riders on a team headed by a MPCC bigwig only do 6 months, whilst also allowing them to finish their careers on the grand(est) stage ... Hmmm ... politicking, controlling, bullying, only admitting when no option left ... Sounds familiar eh Vaughters?

    I'm guessing cycling would have suffered too much via loss of sponsors/races if AC had copped the same fate :?

    Yes and the anomaly was based on being tested per the passport twice in a 8 month period!

    Yes he was more than likely doping. But..... Armstrong wasn't in the same year?

    The passport has serious problems.

    Actually it was 3 from 22.
    According to La Gazzetta dello Sport, three of Pellizotti's 22 controls were irregular: one on December 12, 2008, at Pellizotti's home in Treviso, one on April 15, 2009, at a training camp in Tenerife, Spain, and one on July 2, 2009, at the start of the Tour de France in Monaco.

    http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/6099/ ... z2nBYw9wxP
  • rayjay
    rayjay Posts: 1,384
    Hey mike6, what about all those doped riders still riding?

    Happy to see your ex confessed doper Millar and his team mates still ride ? You know, the ones that have doped and have a manger who used to dope as well, but there ok because they have a nice haircut or something :lol:



    Double standard :lol::lol::lol:
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    "I'm sorry because Franco is a friend. I think he's been very unlucky these past years, he's served his suspension," Nibali said. "There are some rules that are difficult to explain but are applied, like those of the MPCC. He can't be part of our team at the moment for certain reasons linked to the MPCC and I'm very sorry about that. I don't understand these things. On another day, a new group could start with different rules.

    "We need a directive, something, from the UCI. They should say 'we're the ones who decide' and it finishes with them. The UCI is working very well with the new president, but I think they need to come up with the same rules for everybody. We can't have one rule for some and another for others, it's not right."
    Contador is the Greatest
  • smokey_bacon
    smokey_bacon Posts: 1,639
    frenchfighter wrote:
    "I'm sorry because Franco is a friend. I think he's been very unlucky these past years, he's served his suspension," Nibali said. "There are some rules that are difficult to explain but are applied, like those of the MPCC. He can't be part of our team at the moment for certain reasons linked to the MPCC and I'm very sorry about that. I don't understand these things. On another day, a new group could start with different rules.

    "We need a directive, something, from the UCI. They should say 'we're the ones who decide' and it finishes with them. The UCI is working very well with the new president, but I think they need to come up with the same rules for everybody. We can't have one rule for some and another for others, it's not right."

    I empathise with his point partly in that the MPCC is an opt in organisation. It is not the most elegant solution to the issue.

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