My energy bill is going up by how much?

greg66_tri_v2.0

13%.

Yes, according to Eon's letter that I opened this morning, as part of putting me on a simpler, fairer, clearer and more competitive tariff (not the absence of the words "cheaper" or "more affordable"), they are shutting down our existing tariff and putting us on a new one.

Which will result in an increase of your current bill by 13%, Mr 66.

How the hell is it that I read in the press about rises of 3.7%, 5%, etc, but not 13%?

rubertoe

Energy bills are a massive joke.

Colinthecop

Maybe they think youre an MP and the rise is in line with your pay rise...

asprilla

Not laughing.

Better open that letter from nPower that's sitting on the sideboard.

BillyMansell

Greg66, the best thing to do is contact your MP, invite then around to your house and get them to explain how they effected the legislating of power companies as the government said they would. All the hot air they produce should heat your home for weeks.

markhewitt1978

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

How the hell is it that I read in the press about rises of 3.7%, 5%, etc, but not 13%?

"An average of"; been a lot of talk about energy companies recently, but zero action. They are ripping is off, they know it, we know it, the government knows it, but nobody can do anything about it.

Fireblade96

As the Government would say, privatised energy companies bring competition for the benefit of the consumer, you can always move to another provider.

Only it isn't, it's a massive cartel and you're fecked whichever way. TIme to install a wind turbine atop Greg Towers.

asprilla

Wind turbine, solar panels, air / ground source heat pump and a log burner.

All are inefficient and will end up costing more than just paying up to the energy companies, but at least you won't be paying the energy companies and you get to burn stuff. Fire is fun.

UndercoverElephant

You see now, if you check the small-print, you'll find that the new tariff they've moved you to "may not be the best tariff for your current usage". What they're hoping is that you don't ring them up and ask them to put you on their best one. What they're really hoping is that you don't get a free case of wine from uSwitch.com by moving to another supplier

rjsterry

Asprilla wrote:

Wind turbine, solar panels, air / ground source heat pump and a log burner.

All are inefficient and will end up costing more than just paying up to the energy companies, but at least you won't be paying the energy companies and you get to burn stuff. Fire is fun.

If they are deployed sensibly, then they can make a real difference, although in the wrong situation, they are money down the drain. One of our projects is a net exporter to the grid, and burns <£400 of logs a year; It's no 'hair shirt' house either. There's the obvious stuff about properly insulating your house (i.e. not just a scraggy bit of mineral wool draped over the ceiling joists), but older solid masonry houses are more of a challenge without losing floor space or dramatically altering the appearance of the exterior.

Me, I am looking at alternative 'non-big six' suppliers - they can't be any worse.

greg66_tri_v2.0

Fireblade96 wrote:

Only it isn't, it's a massive cartel and you're fecked whichever way. TIme to install a wind turbine atop Greg Towers.

I don't generally subscribe to conspiracy theories, however, uswitch is giving me alternatives that will get me a couple of percent lower than I am right now - so but for the imminent hike, probably wouldn't have been worth the effort to switch. No one is offering a package that is streets below what I'm paying now though.

EDF, OTOH, took my existing figures and reported "You've got a great deal there sunshine! Be sure to drop back in on us when you get kicked off it!".

Think it might be time to instil in the kids a strict "turn your fecking lights off when you leave the room or everything is cancelled" regime. And reset the CH timer, and fire up the log fire.

FFS. This is like living in Victorian times. And don't get me started on the financial raping that is the building and contents insurance bill.

At least this year I've turned a profit on our BUPA subscription at only a modest (!) cost to my general health and well being... Small mercies, sort of.

greg66_tri_v2.0

rjsterry wrote:

There's the obvious stuff about properly insulating your house (i.e. not just a scraggy bit of mineral wool draped over the ceiling joists),

Now, about that. The top floor of our house has (I reckon) very little between the surface of the ceiling and the surface of the roof. Very little. What are the options? When we had an upper floor extension done a couple of years ago the builder was all set to do something about it, but the something involved sticking 6 inches of insulation to the ceiling and then putting a new ceiling on that. Although I wouldn't claim that my kids (or indeed any of the 66s) are basketball stars of the future, I'm not that keen to drop the ceilings by 6 inches.

rjsterry wrote:

Me, I am looking at alternative 'non-big six' suppliers - they can't be any worse.

Co-operative Energy is my #1 alt choice right now. A couple of others (Spark, Ovo) are cheaper but get poor reviews.

rubertoe

Turn of the microwave and cooker clocks... you will be surprised at the usage that they use.

We basically have everything switched off when we are not at home (at the plug), standby is a waste of electricty. there are plenty of ways of helping yourself.

But as everyone said, fuel is a massive rip off.

asprilla

rjsterry wrote:

There's the obvious stuff about properly insulating your house (i.e. not just a scraggy bit of mineral wool draped over the ceiling joists), but older solid masonry houses are more of a challenge without losing floor space or dramatically altering the appearance of the exterior..

/Looks around at 1898 single brick house with loft conversion and wooden sash windows. Cries at monthly gas DD.

Koncordski

Asprilla wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

There's the obvious stuff about properly insulating your house (i.e. not just a scraggy bit of mineral wool draped over the ceiling joists), but older solid masonry houses are more of a challenge without losing floor space or dramatically altering the appearance of the exterior..

/Looks around at 1898 single brick house with loft conversion and wooden sash windows. Cries at monthly gas DD.

Got the same, relined chimney and installed 8.5kW multifuel stove. toasty

asprilla

Koncordski wrote:

Asprilla wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

There's the obvious stuff about properly insulating your house (i.e. not just a scraggy bit of mineral wool draped over the ceiling joists), but older solid masonry houses are more of a challenge without losing floor space or dramatically altering the appearance of the exterior..

/Looks around at 1898 single brick house with loft conversion and wooden sash windows. Cries at monthly gas DD.

Got the same, relined chimney and installed 8.5kW multifuel stove. toasty

8.5kw would require an external flue vent wouldn't it?

I've just had a 4kw log burner put in. Expensive to fit and expensive to run, but it looks great and feels lovely, especially with red wine and mince pies.

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

Now, about that. The top floor of our house has (I reckon) very little between the surface of the ceiling and the surface of the roof. Very little. What are the options? When we had an upper floor extension done a couple of years ago the builder was all set to do something about it, but the something involved sticking 6 inches of insulation to the ceiling and then putting a new ceiling on that. Although I wouldn't claim that my kids (or indeed any of the 66s) are basketball stars of the future, I'm not that keen to drop the ceilings by 6 inches. .

I have a similar issue. When I get round to having a dormer put on the loft conversion I'll be having the floor lowered in order to maximise the ceiling height.

Anyone got any opinions on interfloor insulation? It's about the only option I have for insulation at the moment.

Fireblade96

I've taken out a fixed deal with EDF for the last 2 years, which has at least protected me from the worst of the recent rises. It's worth a look as they don't tie you in, if you find cheaper you can always switch again.

I live in an Edwardian single-brick uninsulated sash-windowed draughty house. Mrs. FB dreams of insulation and log burners :roll:

greg66_tri_v2.0

We have sash windows complete with traditional gaps. The previous owner had fitted wooden shutters on most of the windows. If we shut them and flip the slats closed upwards (so low edge is windowside, high edge is room side) they are pretty effective at keeping the drafts out and the heat in.

However, they are equally effective at keeping the light out. Almost completely.

rjsterry

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

There's the obvious stuff about properly insulating your house (i.e. not just a scraggy bit of mineral wool draped over the ceiling joists),

Now, about that. The top floor of our house has (I reckon) very little between the surface of the ceiling and the surface of the roof. Very little. What are the options? When we had an upper floor extension done a couple of years ago the builder was all set to do something about it, but the something involved sticking 6 inches of insulation to the ceiling and then putting a new ceiling on that. Although I wouldn't claim that my kids (or indeed any of the 66s) are basketball stars of the future, I'm not that keen to drop the ceilings by 6 inches.

rjsterry wrote:

Me, I am looking at alternative 'non-big six' suppliers - they can't be any worse.

Co-operative Energy is my #1 alt choice right now. A couple of others (Spark, Ovo) are cheaper but get poor reviews.

There's also Ecotricity, which compared favourably when I did a quick check, and is developing its own (non-fossil) generating capacity, so shouldn't go up as quickly as the others... in theory.

As for roof insulation, with relatively shallow rafters, you need to insulate between the rafters, plus a sheathing layer either internally (lower headroom) or externally (re-roof) to gain sufficient depth of insulation. If your builder had done this when he had the scaffold up it wouldn't have been that expensive, but as a separate job it'll be quite pricey. There's not really a short cut, but as energy prices go up, this sort of upgrading work makes more and more sense.

Most of the insulation manufacturers like Kingspan, Celotex or Rockwool have plenty of info on how to upgrade roofs and walls.

BigJimmyB

I just did quite well with the Co-op via uSwitch.

rubertoe

I was going to say also go for companies that offer dual fuel and DD discounts - i save £200 a year that way.

Koncordski

Asprilla wrote:

8.5kw would require an external flue vent wouldn't it?

I've just had a 4kw log burner put in. Expensive to fit and expensive to run, but it looks great and feels lovely, especially with red wine and mince pies.

Yes, but as the house has airbricks and a beam and board ground floor it just needed a small floor vent (under a bookcase) in the same room as the stove. Looks fantastic and has taken over from watching TV in the evening. Sadly has increased my whisky consumption/purchasing which negates any gas bill savings. :roll:

greg66_tri_v2.0

rubertoe wrote:

I was going to say also go for companies that offer dual fuel and DD discounts - i save £200 a year that way.

Yes, but. The "but" IME is that they like to use the DD to borrow money from you during the summer so that you end the winter not in debit.

arran77

Koncordski wrote:

Asprilla wrote:

8.5kw would require an external flue vent wouldn't it?

I've just had a 4kw log burner put in. Expensive to fit and expensive to run, but it looks great and feels lovely, especially with red wine and mince pies.

Yes, but as the house has airbricks and a beam and board ground floor it just needed a small floor vent (under a bookcase) in the same room as the stove. Looks fantastic and has taken over from watching TV in the evening. Sadly has increased my whisky consumption/purchasing which negates any gas bill savings. :roll:

Readybrek used to say it was central heating for kids so whisky is central heating for grown ups

rubertoe

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

rubertoe wrote:

I was going to say also go for companies that offer dual fuel and DD discounts - i save £200 a year that way.

Yes, but. The "but" IME is that they like to use the DD to borrow money from you during the summer so that you end the winter not in debit.

never really thought about it like that, My company (npower) tend to over charge me anyway and then give me a refund or a discount - after 3 years now i think they have finally got the monthly dual bill just about spot on (subject to 1 December rises of course).

Get a massive hamster wheel and the mini 66's to generate you electricity

UndercoverElephant

rubertoe wrote:

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

rubertoe wrote:

I was going to say also go for companies that offer dual fuel and DD discounts - i save £200 a year that way.

Yes, but. The "but" IME is that they like to use the DD to borrow money from you during the summer so that you end the winter not in debit.

never really thought about it like that, My company (npower) tend to over charge me anyway and then give me a refund or a discount - after 3 years now i think they have finally got the monthly dual bill just about spot on (subject to 1 December rises of course).

Get a massive hamster wheel and the mini 66's to generate you electricity

Shirley a generator attached to the turbo?

rjsterry

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

We have sash windows complete with traditional gaps. The previous owner had fitted wooden shutters on most of the windows. If we shut them and flip the slats closed upwards (so low edge is windowside, high edge is room side) they are pretty effective at keeping the drafts out and the heat in.

However, they are equally effective at keeping the light out. Almost completely.

Get your windows draught-proofed. There's a company called Ventrolla that does a full overhaul service including little brush seals to all edges. A 2-3mm gap around the perimeter of a 5'x3' sash window is equivalent to a 3"x4" hole - you wouldn't ignore a hole that big in any other circumstance

davis

G66, What's your actual usage in kWh for what size and style of property?

As rjs says you're probably throwing money out of the windows.You can get oak-framed double-glazed sash windows, which IME don't look too horrible. As for the loft room, if it's a conversion then it's not too abnormal to lose a bit of ceiling height...

greg66_tri_v2.0

davis wrote:

G66, What's your actual usage in kWh for what size and style of property?

As rjs says you're probably throwing money out of the windows.You can get oak-framed double-glazed sash windows, which IME don't look too horrible. As for the loft room, if it's a conversion then it's not too abnormal to lose a bit of ceiling height...

Err, a lot. The annual dual fuel bill is currently sufficiently large to have caught my attention, and I'm fairly profligate.

It's a three storey Edwardian house. The top floor is a proper top floor rather than a conversion, but with no loft above it. I am pretty sure that there is no insulation built into the roof. I suspect it would be no less disruptive or expensive to insulate from the outside with a new roof than it would be to do anything from the inside.

Quite a few of the windows have nice uneven period glass, or some coloured pieces, so I'm reluctant to replace the windows. There's some obvious WW2 bomb damage to the houses on the other side of the road in the shape of the after effects of a percussion wave that have left some window frames that a quadrilateral rather than rectangular. We don't have anything quite as bad as that, but we do have one or two sashes that don't fit completely squarely into the frames.

I think the first step is going to be massive roll of draft proofing tape applied liberally to the windows.

Koncordski

rjsterry wrote:

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

We have sash windows complete with traditional gaps. The previous owner had fitted wooden shutters on most of the windows. If we shut them and flip the slats closed upwards (so low edge is windowside, high edge is room side) they are pretty effective at keeping the drafts out and the heat in.

However, they are equally effective at keeping the light out. Almost completely.

Get your windows draught-proofed. There's a company called Ventrolla that does a full overhaul service including little brush seals to all edges. A 2-3mm gap around the perimeter of a 5'x3' sash window is equivalent to a 3"x4" hole - you wouldn't ignore a hole that big in any other circumstance

+1 for Ventrolla, they overhauled my sash windows in Teddington and it made a huge difference, you don't really need to replace with double glazed custom jobs, most of the heat loss is air gaps in old windows.

greg66_tri_v2.0

rjsterry wrote:

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

We have sash windows complete with traditional gaps. The previous owner had fitted wooden shutters on most of the windows. If we shut them and flip the slats closed upwards (so low edge is windowside, high edge is room side) they are pretty effective at keeping the drafts out and the heat in.

However, they are equally effective at keeping the light out. Almost completely.

Get your windows draught-proofed. There's a company called Ventrolla that does a full overhaul service including little brush seals to all edges. A 2-3mm gap around the perimeter of a 5'x3' sash window is equivalent to a 3"x4" hole - you wouldn't ignore a hole that big in any other circumstance

Here's one thing that drives me nuts. In our bedroom we have full length curtains. Big thick heavy buggers. And a radiator - the only one in the room - under the window.

So when it is cold, the radiator sits nice and warm behind the curtains, doing battle with the cold air that pours through the drafty windows. As the rad is behind the curtains - which do a perfectly good job of blocking the draft themselves - it provides very little heating of the room.

I end up piling the curtains on top of the radiator, which although never expressly commented on is an arrangement that never seems to last very long before normal aesthetics are reinstated.

<grump>