New Steel Frame

conscious1

Hello

I have been given the go ahead for n+1 for a significant birthday and plan to buy a new frame to build up. Existing bikes a single speed tricross commuter with rack and mudguards, a supersix for fast sunny days when my back is up to it, and a 5 year old trek 1.7 with crud roadracers for rainy days. I have an irrational(?) hankering for a steel frame that could maybe replace the trek and do a bit more. Light tourer style, with clearance for 28mm tyres and mudguards with some towing capability for occasional child dragging duties but mostly used for solo winter rides of 40-60 miles in Cheshire or the peaks. A do a lot "frame for life" which I realise is a state of mind as much as anything but that is my idea. I realise a Genesis croix de fer or something similar might do the job, and with disc brakes too! but i think it would struggle to be a frame for life. this is because I am also hung up on something made more locally, and perhaps a bit more (much as i hate the word and myself for feeling this way) retro, with lugs, horizontal tt, a quill stem, and possibly dt shifters.

With a budget of around 800 quid for the frame and forks I have been looking at 631 frames mostly (some 725 tubing upgrades have been mentioned for the rear stays). Bob Jackson (Audax End to End) who seem good value but otp rather than more bespoke and there are a few about. Looking at two others more local to me in Manchester, namely Steve Goff in Skem and Neil Orrell in Moston. They are a bit more expensive but also more bespoke service (and the right side of the hills). and not as commonplace which is also worth something to me (I think).

Any thoughts on the three framebuilders or the ideas that I am considering? Someone gone down a similar route and regretted it or would change small things or ended up with the bike of their dreams? I imagine there will be a lot more Bob Jackson owners out there but would be good to hear from anyone with experience of Steve Goff or Neil Orrell frame building as well.

thanks for reading this long if you made it to here

majormantra

I can't say anything intelligent about the builders you've mentioned (although I imagine they will all produce fine frames) but a friend recently linked me to this, which looked interesting for the money:

http://www.chickensframeemporium.co.uk/frames/

cycleclinic

Genesis equilibrium disc might meet your need too. A custom made frame though would be nice. I was lucky though to find a traitor Exile, it fits perfectly and with new paint it is a fantastic bike.

The kind of bike you are describing I think would be best made from skinny tubed steel, nothing oversize. Oversize steel tubing is lovely too but it lends itself to a more race orientated frame. Also do not skimp on the braze on's.

Braze on front mech
Pump peg
rack mounts
proper eyelets for mudguards
head tube rings for cable (stops paint rub) - I wish I had these added to the traitor when I was getting some braze on's added.
I would also have D/T shifter bosses added too so STI barrel adjuster can be fitted. Looks neater than inlin adjusters and better than the threaded cable stops you sometimes get.

Get a steel fork made with rake. I am so glad I got one made, it has transformed the bike. Long wheel base is not a bad idea too as it make for predictable handling.

Personally I would get the fame and fork made for disc brakes. Sorry I am describing my perfect bike.

chrisvanderkaap

thecycleclinic wrote:

Genesis equilibrium disc might meet your need too. A custom made frame though would be nice. I was lucky though to find a traitor Exile, it fits perfectly and with new paint it is a fantastic bike.

The kind of bike you are describing I think would be best made from skinny tubed steel, nothing oversize. Oversize steel tubing is lovely too but it lends itself to a more race orientated frame. Also do not skimp on the braze on's.

Braze on front mech
Pump peg
rack mounts
proper eyelets for mudguards
head tube rings for cable (stops paint rub) - I wish I had these added to the traitor when I was getting some braze on's added.
I would also have D/T shifter bosses added too so STI barrel adjuster can be fitted. Looks neater than inlin adjusters and better than the threaded cable stops you sometimes get.

Get a steel fork made with rake. I am so glad I got one made, it has transformed the bike. Long wheel base is not a bad idea too as it make for predictable handling.

Personally I would get the fame and fork made for disc brakes. Sorry I am describing my perfect bike.

+1

rolf_f

conscious1 wrote:

Bob Jackson (Audax End to End) who seem good value but otp rather than more bespoke and there are a few about.

Bob Jackson do standard geometry and made to measure. You can spec pretty much anything you want.

Also in Leeds are Woodrups and Ellis Briggs. TBH, there are loads of steel frame builders out there.

Monty Dog

You've also got Paul Hewitt in Leyland. Particularly as you're using it for trailer / touring duties, recommend you go for a triple transmission with disc brakes - it might go against the aesthetics of DT shifters (look at bar-ends?) though. Give yourself enough clearance for 28mm tyres and mudguards - weighs nothing but means you can fit something like 70x40 tyres for some rough-stuff / adventure touring too.

conscious1

Thanks for the comments so far.

I generally agree with cycleclinic's ideas. Have looked at the Equilibrium at length and it's very nice and you get more bike for your money, but keep coming back to the idea of a UK made bike. Disc brakes would be an obvious upgrade (in the wet at least) and save rims as well and I can see them on another bike but not this one as I don't know how/if that fits in with the retro aesthetic i am (despite myself) sort of aiming for. and would add cost to the frame when 800 quid is already a stretch in some areas.

I know there are lots of steel framebuilders out there but 800 quid budget gets rid of quite a few (Mercian, Rourke and any number of others including Ellis Briggs and Woodrup I think) and for most other builders (not BJ who are cheaper) limits me to lower end tubesets (which might have a more comfy ride quality anyway - although I know this is a combination of lots of things and not just material).

Was considering a triple but not sure I will be towing up any real hills. The disc brakes is a head (yes) vs heart (no) thing it might just look a bit wrong - and i think and this is supposed to be a heart-led bike. Definitely 28mm clearance and mudguards though. I think Paul Hewitt frames are made in Taiwan so that rules him out for the same irrational reasons as the Genesis options - I know they are good, more bike for the money, but I'd prefer to waste my (wife's) money on something more locally made

Would be interested to hear of anyone else's thoughts or experiences too.

thanks

cycleclinic

In think discs look fine at a home on a bike, not wrong at all. It is only becuase you are so used to seeing caliper brakes on bikes you think it is wrong. Think of it this way is it wrong to buy a 60's ford mustang and to strip it down and fit modern brakes and supension so it drive like a modern car. To me that is making the car useable. Same with disc brakes on a road bike it is just better. Shame I have so many frame fro rim brakes must sell a couple.