Building my own wheels.

Ber Nard

I've always had a desire to build my own wheels as I generally source components second hand or online and feel a bit bad expecting my LBS to build up a set of hubs and rims I didn't buy from them (though they're happy to do it).

What's putting me off is the wild differences in the cost of the tools required: I've seen £30 spoke keys, £500 tension meters, even a 45 quid nipple screwdriver!

Starting from scratch, what would I realistically have to buy/spend to build a decent pair of wheels? Is the expense actually worth it, I mean; how many pairs of wheels do you build if it isn't a commercial venture?

Any advice welcome.

Rob

onbike 1939

You should also be aware that the components needed for the wheel will be more expensive than buying a complete wheel which uses the same components. I now find myself buying a cheapish, machine-made wheel with the components I want, and then re-building it properly to a better standard.

Ber Nard

True, but I'm a bit of a hoarder when it comes to bike parts. I've got a pair of Open Pro rims in the garage waiting for me to find use for them. I could sell them, but most likely I'll hang on to them until I find a nice pair of Campag hubs going cheap and build them up. I'd like to be able to do that myself.

Rob

amaferanga

To start you need a spoke key. A wheel jig and dishing tool will make life easier, but some folk just use the frame and brake blocks to true/dish to begin with.

I disagree that you can buy decent wheels for less. For example, you can build a set of Archetypes on Novatec hubs for quite a lot less than you can buy a complete wheelset.

marcusjb

That is pretty much it. A spoke key and you are good to go.

Frame and a couple of cable ties and the brake blocks, and you can make a decent job of a true wheel.

Everything else is just making it easier to be even truer.

A wheel stand, dishing gauge and a nipple driver do make it easier for sure, but really not needed unless you want to. I would like a tension gauge, but as I have managed so far without (only built up a few wheels, but all have done big mileage without issues), I suspect it is just the tool nerd in me wanting one.

JayKosta

You can build your own wheels with a spoke wrench as the only tool. Use the bike to get the correct rim location.

For judging spoke tension, just use another complete wheel that is laced in the same pattern as a guide.

And have good instruction material about lacing patterns, spoke tension, stress-relieving during the build, etc.

But... be prepared for it to take much longer than you imagine!
Getting the rim to be true BOTH left-right AND up-down can be very frustrating.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USAbv

Ber Nard

Might give it a go building a wheel in the frame, then. If that goes well, I'll look into getting a stand.

Rob

marcusjb

The Roger Musson book is a great starting point - I have followed it and his suggestions work very well and help you make a wheel that's laterally and radially true without too much drama.

ugo.santalucia

marcusjb wrote:

The Roger Musson book is a great starting point - I have followed it and his suggestions work very well and help you make a wheel that's laterally and radially true without too much drama.

The Schraner one gets to the point even quicker without too much faff

cycleclinic

The scranher one is good. I wrote this thread on retrobike which summerises the build process. A few people have tried it now and it seems to be working. Sapim spoke key is excellent and no £30. A dishing tool is very useful but your frame works. A spoke tension gauge is useful (the one I use is the really expensive DT Swiss Tensio and the Sapim gauge) but if you are building a 32 spoke wheels with DT comps or Sapim Race and have a good ear you should be able to get within +/-10%. A wheel jig is useful as well if you intend to more than one pair of wheels otherwise your frame will do the job but getting roundness down to acceptable level may be tricky but it is doable.

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewto ... 0#p2065330
If you find it useful join retrobike and post your results.

Ber Nard

Thanks for all the useful advice. For a bit of practice, can I strip down an old wheel and rebuild it? Or will the spokes be no good?

thecycleclinic wrote:

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=276826&p=2065330#p2065330
If you find it useful join retrobike and post your results.

Bookmarked!

Rob

ugo.santalucia

Ber Nard wrote:

Thanks for all the useful advice. For a bit of practice, can I strip down an old wheel and rebuild it? Or will the spokes be no good?

thecycleclinic wrote:

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=276826&p=2065330#p2065330
If you find it useful join retrobike and post your results.

Bookmarked!

Rob

Fitting a used spoke in a different hole on the flange will kill it very quickly according to popular knowledge... I have always avoided doing it, so no direct experience

on-yer-bike

Dont bother with Novatech campag hubs unless you like the idea of finishing your wheels installing the tyres, the cassette to go out and test them only to find that cassette lockring is not compatible with the hub. So you just made a completely useless set of wheels and wasted a whole load of time and money. Stick to factory wheels.

ugo.santalucia

on-yer-bike wrote:

Dont bother with Novatech campag hubs unless you like the idea of finishing your wheels installing the tyres, the cassette to go out and test them only to find that cassette lockring is not compatible with the hub. So you just made a completely useless set of wheels and wasted a whole load of time and money. Stick to factory wheels.

Unnecessarily bitter, I am sure your small problem will be sorted by the retailer

cycleclinic

I have never had this issue with Novatec hubs. If I had I would not use them. Your hub has the wrong end cap that simple. I would have had complaints by now as I sell a fair few of the campag F582 hub on ebay if they don't work for 11 speed. As I have no complaints your issue can be resolved. You need to visit an LBS if you do not have the confidence to diagnose and sort yourself with the retailer (as the retailer will probably want to see the wheel).

andrew_s

Ber Nard wrote:

Thanks for all the useful advice. For a bit of practice, can I strip down an old wheel and rebuild it? Or will the spokes be no good?

Spokes can be re-used OK. When a rim wears out, it's normal to tape the new rim to the side of the old one, move the spokes across to it one by one, then tension and true (assuming the new rim is the same as the old).

If you are dismantling and rebuilding a wheel for practice, there are 4 groups of spokes in a wheel (left heads in, left heads out, right heads in, right heads out). Keep them separate, and put them back into matching holes in the hub - you can see which way round the spoke was before from the wear marks in the hub flange. Bear in mind that many rims have a small left/right stagger in the spoke holes, and that you don't want to get the valve hole under crossing spokes.

on-yer-bike

Im sure the retailer will sort it out but so far grinding down the lock ring has been one suggestion. I also need to grind down that Sapim nipple driver you sold me because the point isnt long enough. Lots of grinding to be done.

ugo.santalucia

on-yer-bike wrote:

Im sure the retailer will sort it out but so far grinding down the lock ring has been one suggestion. I also need to grind down that Sapim nipple driver you sold me because the point isnt long enough. Lots of grinding to be done.

Do you come through London this week?
I have a Shimano freehub type B1 that fits your hub, we can try it on and if it fits with the cassette, then you definitively have the wrong hub cap

on-yer-bike

ugo.santalucia wrote:

on-yer-bike wrote:

Im sure the retailer will sort it out but so far grinding down the lock ring has been one suggestion. I also need to grind down that Sapim nipple driver you sold me because the point isnt long enough. Lots of grinding to be done.

Do you come through London this week?
I have a Shimano freehub type B1 that fits your hub, we can try it on and if it fits with the cassette, then you definitively have the wrong hub cap

Thanks for the offer but I wasnt planning to, it would have to be a special trip. I have tried to find pictures of end caps for comparison. If Cycleclinic say they have sold these hubs with Campag freehubs with no problems, it must be the end caps.

ugo.santalucia

on-yer-bike wrote:

Thanks for the offer but I wasnt planning to, it would have to be a special trip. I have tried to find pictures of end caps for comparison. If Cycleclinic say they have sold these hubs with Campag freehubs with no problems, it must be the end caps.

Not necessarily... Campagnolo can be extremely annoying, they might change the design of the lockring for one specific cassette, just to annoy everybody eles and then come up with a perfectly sensible explanation that makes no sense at all.
For example... what was exactly the point of introducing Power Torque, when the all range was already fitted with Ultra Torque... just spend more money for extra R&D and toolage? Was cutting an axle in half and machihing it a lot more expensive than setting up a new production line altogether?

on-yer-bike

I emailed BDop and they said there was a dodgy batch of Novatech endcaps.
I have tried a new and an old lock ring and they are both the same.

ugo.santalucia

on-yer-bike wrote:

I emailed BDop and they said there was a dodgy batch of Novatech endcaps.
I have tried a new and an old lock ring and they are both the same.

Good to know... when it comes to all things Novatec, you can't beat Tim at BDOP!
I would have advised you to get them from there, but on a couple of occasions I got stung with import duties (fair enough) and handling fees (not so fair!) which made the purchase not worth it

on-yer-bike

Now I just have to get some sense out of the supplier…

giant_man

ugo.santalucia wrote:

marcusjb wrote:

The Roger Musson book is a great starting point - I have followed it and his suggestions work very well and help you make a wheel that's laterally and radially true without too much drama.

The Schraner one gets to the point even quicker without too much faff

the reviews on amazon aren't very favourable, the translation for one thing, maybe the musson book would be a better bet for the beginner

marcusjb

I've not read the Schraner one - it's out of print it seems - but the Musson book is excellent for a beginner (which I most certainly am having built only 4 wheels).

He guides you through the process of building a wheel in a very clear and easy to follow way. Follow it to the letter and you will have a very decent wheel.

I know those on here who build wheels either full-time or part-time will have their own techniques and tricks, but overall the Musson book is hard to fault for those starting out on wheel building.

hypster

I've just started building my own wheels after having Roger Musson's book for a couple of years. I also downloaded Gerd Schraner's book "The Art of Wheelbuilding" and Jobst Brandt's "The Bicycle Wheel" from the web. Overall I think Roger Musson's book is the best and obviously the most up-to-date but I got something from all three.

The only problem with Musson's book (for a beginner) in my opinion is he is a little bit vague about ultimate tensions and I found getting a Park TM-1 definitely helped me with this. Although it isn't that accurate, at least it gave me a ball-park figure which was a fair bit higher than I was managing when I started. I also found it helped equalising tensions in the spokes as well over just pinging spokes as he recommends.

Having built a few wheels now I also find Gerd Schraner's method for tensioning the wheel seems to produce better results for me as well.

ugo.santalucia

Well, Schraner used to build wheels for the great legends of continental cycling...

rolf_f

ugo.santalucia wrote:

For example... what was exactly the point of introducing Power Torque, when the all range was already fitted with Ultra Torque... just spend more money for extra R&D and toolage? Was cutting an axle in half and machihing it a lot more expensive than setting up a new production line altogether?

Oh come now - it's obvious! It means that there is a rational reason for buying a Campag groupset that isn't Veloce. This wasn't the case pre Power Torque

cycleclinic

Eh this is a wheel building thread?