Neutrons, conversion to Shimano?

Adrian Waine

I have a set of Campagnolo Neutron wheels with Campag freehub.
I'm thinking of changing to SRAM from Campag to get the 32 bail out gear (I blame old age and knackered body). Does anybody know if I can buy a Shimano freehub to save me buying new wheels?

ugo.santalucia

I think the Fulcrum freehub for Shimano should fit, but I am not 100% sure

Adrian Waine

Thanks for that.
Just found the instructions. The freehub is replaceable, so all I have to do now is find a supplier.

ugo.santalucia

Adrian Waine wrote:

Thanks for that.
Just found the instructions. The freehub is replaceable, so all I have to do now is find a supplier.

Ask the cycleclinic, he knows all these Campagnolo tricks

on-yer-bike

Isnt a Campag 29 enough with a compact chainset?

Adrian Waine

I'm running a 50/34 compact with a 13-26 cassette already.
The 29T cassette would only give me a 7% lower gear over this.
The problem is also getting hold of the necessary bits for 10 speed at a sensible price as I'd need a medium cage mech - OK I might get away with the short cage, but it' say risk I don't want to take.
So it is gonna cost me over £300 to do the upgrade.
I can get a SRAM Force 22 groupset for £700. Not as simple as it seems though, because I have not found anyone who will do the GS with a medium cage rear mech yet. But I'm still looking!
BTW I live on the edge of the Lake District, so it would be good to tackle the 1:5 and 1:4 climbs "easily."

g00se

Out of interest, which Campag group do you have and which year? There may be some cheap work-arounds.

Velonutter

Adrian Waine wrote:

I'm running a 50/34 compact with a 13-26 cassette already.
The 29T cassette would only give me a 7% lower gear over this.
The problem is also getting hold of the necessary bits for 10 speed at a sensible price as I'd need a medium cage mech - OK I might get away with the short cage, but it' say risk I don't want to take.
So it is gonna cost me over £300 to do the upgrade.
I can get a SRAM Force 22 groupset for £700. Not as simple as it seems though, because I have not found anyone who will do the GS with a medium cage rear mech yet. But I'm still looking!
BTW I live on the edge of the Lake District, so it would be good to tackle the 1:5 and 1:4 climbs "easily."

12/29 or 13/29 runs perfect on Short Cage Campag, just adjust the B screw to give the clearance, it really does run perfect.

Adrian Waine

Thanks for advice.
It's Chorus 10sp, but before QS came in. I had to get a QS front mech when I changed frames and I'm not impressed.
I have been advised that I can run a 13-29 on a short cage mech before. I'd like to talk to someone who has actually done it though. That will still only give an 11% change. Not sure (pretty darn sure, actually) if that will be enough. Only found Record 13-29 cassettes so far, no Chorus and I would like to keep everything the same.
Must admit, do like the look of SRAM. BTW, don't want a triple

g00se

I don't think it's as cut and dried about a 29 for Chorus 10. The recent '11-speed shape' 10-speed rear mechs (powershift) will take 29 or a 30 with a short cage. However, the previous shape is only spec'ed to take a 26 (this is from the Campag tech docs).

Similarly, the chain capacity of the newer shape is greater - so it can officially deal with the chain take-up from going from 13&34 to 29&50, which the older shape couldn't (officially).

HOWEVER, Campag do under-state the capacity, so an older pre-powershift short-cage will usually suck up a few more chain links, so a lot of bikes will work with a short-cage, compact front and a 13/29 cassette. I know, mine does (earlier Centaur 10).. In fact, it works with a 12/29 Miche cassette and a compact front. It may have a lot to do with the chainstay length - which determines whether a mech-cage at it's full extent lands on a complete link of the chain - or is a bit too short, which effectively looses the capacity of one link (two teeth). If you google 'rigorous chain length calulator' and 'capacity', you should find a decent description.

BUT, I think it was cycleclinic that said on another post, it also depends on the rear hanger of the older shape mechs as to whether the mech clears a larger 29 sprocket without putting too much strain on the mechanism - for which he's seen the component fail.

Oh, older QS - I think the lever arm on the front mech is shorter - so the leverage required is more when using the non-QS levers.

Velonutter

I can confirm that my son and future son-in-law both run 13/29, one of them runs Chorus and the other runs Centaur, one with a 53/39 at the front and the other with a 50/34, I've set it up for loads of my mates as well and it works perfectly, it shifts perfectly without any problems whatsoever.

I run 12/29 11 speed with a short cage and that is perfect as well.

Adrian Waine

Thanks very much for you replies.
It's good to know that I may not rip my rear mech off!
Still unsure which way to go. I don't really like Shimano levers, but they do do an 11-32 option "off the peg"
Heard lots of good things about SRAM, their consumables (chain, cassettes etc.) seem much dearer than big S, although is this a reflection of quality?
OK, just bitten the bullet and found a Chorus 13-29 (£110 - cheaper than groupset) on t'internet after much searching.
Wish me luck!

g00se

We're all assuming you have the short cage Chorus 10 rear mech. The older Chorus 10-speed kit came with medium-cage rear mechs too. If you measure the distance between the two pulley bolts, then you'll know what you have.

If you do have a short cage, there are some cheaper options that changing everything - and keeping it all in the official Campag tolerances. You could hunt down an older Chorus 10 medium-cage derailleur on ebay and use that with a campag 29 cassette? Or a new 'old' one, though that may be a bit pricey: http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... ampgrrr800

Also, if you find a pre 2011 'old-shape' 10 speed Veloce or Centaur medium cage rear mech (the parallelogram body looks the same as your chorus - and not like the more recent bodies), then that should work with a 29. Something like:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Campagnolo-Ve ... 1c2e360a9f

Or, this will match the Chorus more:

http://www.shinybikes.com/campagnolo-ce ... -2010.html


Finally, though not officially supported, a lot of folks have said that the old 10-speed levers work fine with the new powershift 10-speed rear mechs. So you could go for a current Veloce or Centaur short-cage rear mech with a 13-29 cassette:


http://www.wiggle.co.uk/campagnolo-velo ... 5360392815

http://www.parker-international.co.uk/1 ... tAod7ggAjA

And officially go with the MEDIUM cage option of these modern mechs to work with the new centaur 12-30 cassette if you run a compact front:

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/campagnolo-cent ... -cassette/

(though I expect a short cage would be fine - and it'll definitely be OK with a standard double front).

In the campag docs, it says it's not recommended to use the new powershift mechs with the older-type or ultrashift levers. I've heard two reasons why -

- One is slightly different cable pull - but I've only ever read it works OK so I'm not sure that's the case.

- The other - which sounds more plausible - is that the powershift system runs under slightly less tension so the spring in the rear mech isn't as strong as the older or ultrashift mechs. If the cables are clean and smooth, it runs fine but can stick if the cables aren't perfect. So a set of new inner and outer gear cables may be in order too.

Adrian Waine

g00se, thanks for very comprehensive reply.
I'm going to give it a go with the existing mech (you are correct in thinking that I have the short cage) on the bike stand and take the time to get things sorted before I go out for real. May even try it on the rollers too.
I use a KMC link, so messing about with chain length isn't the faff it might otherwise be.
Coincidentally, I did look at the 12-30 option, but though that the extra tooth might be a step too far at 33 teeth.
I am surprised that Campagnolo do not have a dinner plate cassette option (perhaps they do now - I haven't looked that closely), particularly the way the Tour and Vuelta have been going with gradients in recent years.
My troubles are partly due to having the gruppo on my "best bike", which doesn't really see either rain or wet roads - field run-off excepted - so technology moves on before the bits wear out. Where I live, we don't get too many days that fall into that category.
Once I get sorted, I'll try to remember to post my progress.
Just waiting for the postie now. And to book that trip to Majorca!

freddiegrubb

A mate of mine bought a cheap shim wheel & a 9 speed dinner plate cassette to run on a campag 10 speed rear mech. alters the limits & is good to go. We live in the lakes & he is getting on a bit, the only problem he finds is that at times on the flat he can't find a gear that's comfortable due to the big teeth jumps.

Adrian Waine

I have spent quite a bit of time on my fixed. As a consequence, I have built up a tolerance of the 'not quite right' gear ratios. I don't do anything competitive, so it's just a case of changing pace accordingly. So it's uphill, slower; downhill, faster; on the flat, coffee and cake!