7,200 deaths

Frank the tank

Last year due to fuel poverty, while the big six see profits go up five fold, in four years. :twisted:

In a country as wealthy as ours that is shameful.

Mikey23

Yes it is. Just watching a bbc article on fuel poverty. Choices between spending money on heating and spending money on food .. Pretty shabby in this day and age.

sloppyschleckonds

Deplorable.

dave in swansea

This is wrong, and should not happen in a civilised country.
The welfare system needs to be overhauled.
Food and heat are basic rights. The provision of both should be guaranteed. Direct payment for utilities and essentials, vouchers for food. This would help the genuinely impoverished.
However might not be popular with those who want to spend on beer / fags / drugs.

ballysmate

dave in swansea wrote:

This is wrong, and should not happen in a civilised country.
The welfare system needs to be overhauled.
Food and heat are basic rights. The provision of both should be guaranteed. Direct payment for utilities and essentials, vouchers for food. This would help the genuinely impoverished.
However might not be popular with those who want to spend on beer / fags / drugs.

Sounds like a plan to me.

daviesee

I am sure that not so long ago at least one person was advocating that pensioners should be made to suffer some more fiscal pain.

This is why I disagreed.

Address the issue. Not those affected.

Mike Healey

Poverty is not really the main cause, appallingly limited building regulations are. Decade after decade, successive governments have failed miserably to upgrade insulation standards for buildings. It's perfectly possible to build houses which require very little heat input (£50 p.a, anyone?), but politicians have dragged their feet.

Upgrading existing housing may be easy or difficult depending on how each house is built, but undertaking a massive expansion of such improvements would reduce the need for much of the proposed generating capacity. Our failure to build combined heat and power generating plants, along the lines of many in Scandinavia, would have increased each power station's efficiency by not throwing billions of heat units into the atmosphere via 400+ft high cooling towers and diverting the hot water directly to local dwellings instead.

Technologically backward housing standards create the fuel poverty.

finchy

^^^ This. The quality of housing in the UK is the real scandal.

seanoconn

It won't just be people below the poverty line that struggle to keep warm if trends continue.

There's no real competition between the big 6. Prices all rise at a similar alarming rate and you either pay or go without. Massive profits means they're charging us too much (unless I'm missing something) and either we collectively do something about it, or nothing changes.

Suggestions please how about we all cancel our direct debits?

ballysmate

I have to agree that in this day and age it is a scandal that people are seemingly dying for lack of warmth.
But to play devil's advocate and I can't envisage anyone coming on here to defend the energy companies, here goes.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... mers-ofgem


This is the Guardian, not the Mail or Telegraph. A profit of £53 per year per customer in 2011. Profit margins rising from 2.8 to 4.3% in 2012 How many critics on here work for companies with such margins?
Yes, the overall bottom lines are eye watering, but so are the risks and costs of development for these companies.

I must admit that I was a bit surprised that the energy companies had been making a pound a week out of me. All those who think it a disgrace that a company can make such a profit, remember that figure the next time you willingly hand over your well earned cash for an overpriced coffee or fancy bottled water/ beer.

Not defending fuel poverty at all, just trying to give a different angle.

arran77

When you look at it in that way, I have to agree that £53 profit per customer does not seem unreasonable but when you then think that because the product is a necessity and their customer base is huge, profits are huge as well and it becomes slightly less reasonable

daviesee

Ballysmate wrote:

I have to agree that in this day and age it is a scandal that people are seemingly dying for lack of warmth.
But to play devil's advocate and I can't envisage anyone coming on here to defend the energy companies, here goes.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... mers-ofgem


This is the Guardian, not the Mail or Telegraph. A profit of £53 per year per customer in 2011. Profit margins rising from 2.8 to 4.3% in 2012 How many critics on here work for companies with such margins?
Yes, the overall bottom lines are eye watering, but so are the risks and costs of development for these companies.

I must admit that I was a bit surprised that the energy companies had been making a pound a week out of me. All those who think it a disgrace that a company can make such a profit, remember that figure the next time you willingly hand over your well earned cash for an overpriced coffee or fancy bottled water/ beer.

Not defending fuel poverty at all, just trying to give a different angle.

If I have read, and remember correctly, those are the headline figures that the companies want you to use.
They make @ 4% profit on supplying the fuel.

but

They make @ 20% profit on producing the fuel. To supply, er, themselves.

Therein lies the problem.

seanoconn

I get your point Bally but we can manage without luxury items. Heating is a necessity for life and we are being held to ransom.

seanoconn

arran77 wrote:

When you look at it in that way, I have to agree that £53 profit per customer does not seem unreasonable but when you then think that because the product is a necessity and their customer base is huge, profits are huge as well and it becomes slightly less reasonable

Slightly!!!!!

I'm up for a switch off, who's with me?



I said, who's with me?

arran77

seanoconn wrote:

arran77 wrote:

When you look at it in that way, I have to agree that £53 profit per customer does not seem unreasonable but when you then think that because the product is a necessity and their customer base is huge, profits are huge as well and it becomes slightly less reasonable

Slightly!!!!!

I'm up for a switch off, who's with me?



I said, who's with me?

If you switching off your electricity means that you can't post on here anymore, I say you go for it Sean :P

seanoconn

arran77 wrote:

seanoconn wrote:

arran77 wrote:

When you look at it in that way, I have to agree that £53 profit per customer does not seem unreasonable but when you then think that because the product is a necessity and their customer base is huge, profits are huge as well and it becomes slightly less reasonable

Slightly!!!!!

I'm up for a switch off, who's with me?



I said, who's with me?

If you switching off your electricity means that you can't post on here anymore, I say you go for it Sean :P

I'll charge my phone at work :P

Mikey23

Just checked... Winter fuel payment in my account now. Bring it on...

@dis... We used to do direct payments from benefits for the genuinely feckless and reckless. Not sure if it still happens. I suspect not

team47b

Nice one Mikey, spend your Winter fuel payment on booze and women

One day I will be entitled to this and will get £200 to pay for my heating, I live off grid with solar energy and lots of trees, then you will have something to complain about, I'll let you know when it happens

ballysmate

daviesee wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

I have to agree that in this day and age it is a scandal that people are seemingly dying for lack of warmth.
But to play devil's advocate and I can't envisage anyone coming on here to defend the energy companies, here goes.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... mers-ofgem


This is the Guardian, not the Mail or Telegraph. A profit of £53 per year per customer in 2011. Profit margins rising from 2.8 to 4.3% in 2012 How many critics on here work for companies with such margins?
Yes, the overall bottom lines are eye watering, but so are the risks and costs of development for these companies.

I must admit that I was a bit surprised that the energy companies had been making a pound a week out of me. All those who think it a disgrace that a company can make such a profit, remember that figure the next time you willingly hand over your well earned cash for an overpriced coffee or fancy bottled water/ beer.

Not defending fuel poverty at all, just trying to give a different angle.

If I have read, and remember correctly, those are the headline figures that the companies want you to use.
They make @ 4% profit on supplying the fuel.

but

They make @ 20% profit on producing the fuel. To supply, er, themselves.

Therein lies the problem.

Here is a link with mention of the 20% margin.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/52524 ... s-fuel.htm


I have no knowledge of the internal machinations of these companies, but I believe that the £3 bn profit was for the total companies' profits and not just the supply arm.
With this in mind 3bn divided by 30 million households does give a profit this year of £100 per house per year. ie 2 quid a week. Bear in mind that these companies will make profit from supplying industry as well, the figure of 100 pounds per household will be reduced accordingly.
The £53 was for 2011

ballysmate

Mikey23 wrote:

Just checked... Winter fuel payment in my account now. Bring it on...

@dis... We used to do direct payments from benefits for the genuinely feckless and reckless. Not sure if it still happens. I suspect not

Keep warm Mikey!
The direct payment probably now goes to Betfred or online bingo.

daviesee

Ballysmate wrote:

Here is a link with mention of the 20% margin.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/52524 ... s-fuel.htm

That report would almost make you feel sorry for them.
No company is entitled to make a profit but without profit they will shut down. Simple as.
The 20% profit does not take into account investment, infrastructure or taxes? It is not a true profit figure then.

As I said, it could almost make you feel sorry for them, but to paraphrase, the source would say that, wouldn't it?

freddiegrubb

I think you have to dig a little deeper - some energy companies are "foreign" with shareholders & they come first in the pecking order, in the previous system profit from the nationalised industries went to the gov. to waste as they saw fit. So possibly go back to maggie. & further to see when the utilities were sold off ( just think royal mail recently) god save us from career/short term politicians with incurable myopia. I'm off to put on an extra jumper with long johns at the ready.

ballysmate

Got to page 2 before the first 'blame Thatch' post.
Such restraint.

in the previous system profit from the nationalised industries went to the gov.

Ha ha ha ha. Oh my aching ribs.

dave02

We all need to look at ourselves and see what we can do with a little effort, do you make sure your mum/dad is ok every day, check on an older person that lives near you, its not all down to the local council its also down to the local community.
Will some one help me down from this box i feel dizzzzzzzzzy. :roll:

ballysmate

dave02 wrote:

We all need to look at ourselves and see what we can do with a little effort, do you make sure your mum/dad is ok every day, check on an older person that lives near you, its not all down to the local council its also down to the local community.
Will some one help me down from this box i feel dizzzzzzzzzy. :roll:

Sound advice indeed.

You ok Mikey?

Frank the tank

There is some sound advice and good comments being made. However, I live in a humble 3 bed semi, roof insulation, cavity wall insulation, heat reflecting double glazing etc duel fuel bill is still £120/month. The house still has to be warmed, I'm in a position where I can still afford the heating costs but many just cannot and 7,200 deaths is 7,200 to many.

I don't care if the fuel companies only make £53 profit out of every user perhaps if it was only £50 there may be 7,200 more people alive today.

dave02

You have windows :shock: and a fu

---

g roof, is it a council house, i bought my own and had to choose either one or the other

arran77

Ballysmate wrote:

dave02 wrote:

We all need to look at ourselves and see what we can do with a little effort, do you make sure your mum/dad is ok every day, check on an older person that lives near you, its not all down to the local council its also down to the local community.
Will some one help me down from this box i feel dizzzzzzzzzy. :roll:

Sound advice indeed.

You ok Mikey?

I'm getting worried now, nearly an hour and a half and no Mikey, someone pop round and check on him.

ballysmate

dave02 wrote:

You have windows :shock: and a fu

---

g roof, is it a council house, i bought my own and had to choose either one or the other

Frank is a member of the Bourgeoisie, Dave, didn't you know?

Mikey23

Sorry guys, I was just going to start my hibernation...
Big comfy cardboard box full of straw ... Will spend the WFP on loose women next spring... Night all

Frank the tank

Ballysmate wrote:

dave02 wrote:

You have windows :shock: and a fu

---

g roof, is it a council house, i bought my own and had to choose either one or the other

Frank is a member of the Bourgeoisie, Dave, didn't you know?

Proper posh I am, you plebs.