Group riding - how big is too big

mr_poll

The club I ride for is getting bigger and group sizes are becoming a cause for concern in some quarters. A recent ride with a group of 19 led to a number of irrate motorists firing past, horns blaring leaving zero room when passing the group and even a hair raising moment with a car going for gap, that wasnt there, into oncoming traffic.

This is causing a bit of debate of what constitutes a good group sized group whilst maintaining safety as not to antagonise drivers with a bike "road train". Any thoughts on this? Do you ride with a club that limits the size of groups for the reasons above, if so to what?

Team4Luke

quite right, we have that many members fortunately they all form their own smaller groups and go at different times, our largest group may be 15+ ish but not every week.
Simply split them up into say ability groups and pick meet points to re gather at for a short rest refuel and off again seperately and all meet at the appointed cafe etc.
The days of huge club run numbers are done and dusted, any club that does this is irresponsible and gives us all a bad name and image.

navrig

Too many factors to give a definitive answer.

It will depend on:

Type of roads (narrow/rural/urban)
Condition of nearside - clear/potholed/lots of gulleys
Frequency and type of traffic (lots of cars, lorries, buses)
Goup shape - strung out or bunched in pairs (or wider)
Group speed.

19 doesn't sound too big to me but I ride in groups under 8 typically.

Brakeless

We generally limit size to about 10 max. Alot depends on the make up and experience of the group.

10 cyclists who are not used to riding side by side and wheel to wheel may take up as much space as 14 or sixteen cyclists riding in close pairs.

As well as taking up alot of the road there is always way more 'faffing' in larger groups. Waiting at the top of hills, pee stops, bigger queues if you have cafe stops, more chance of punctures, mechanicals etc.

I personally can cope with a few 'twat' motorists but i find it a much more enjoyable ride in smaller groups.

trek_dan

We had this debate last summer when lots of new members joined, and decided groups of 6-8 were a good number. Initially the club were of the 'nobody gets dropped' persuasion but it was starting to pee off the hardcore members and the big groups were getting unmanageable. The leader of that weeks ride posts the Garmin route file for the following weeks club run on the Facebook page, and advise everyone to use it. Generally the group just splits up organically around who has Garmins is what we find.

dodgy

How many is too many? When some of the club mates are raising concerns, that's when. Since that's already happened, you have your answer I reckon!

Personally, I prefer to ride solo, but I don't ride with groups larger than 4 total when I do ride with company.

I think 19 is a ridiculous size for a group, it's just not practical.

matt-h

We had 15 or 16 Sunday and felt that was big.
Groups of 10, 15 mins apart would be perfect i reckon

Matt

cougie

I'd think 10 would be about the maximum size really. Anything bigger than that and you're not on the front often enough.

As to the 15 mins apart - I think thats a bit excessive ? A few minutes should sort it and let the fast group out first ? They would probably want to anyway.

southdownswolf

Spending a few weeks in the Pyrenees two years ago, groups of 19 are quite small. There seemed to be groups of 25+ every few miles.

However, cycling is a little bit more tolerated over there....

kajjal

If you are continually impeding other road users to the point where they get irate then your group is much to big for the roads and riders in the group. As soon as you go above about four riders you need to be very aware of other road users and give them due consideration be they cars, lorries, tractors, bicycles, horses etc.

Cycling in groups is good for training and socially but remember you are not a roman phalanx going into battle

bernithebiker

30 of us out yesterday, usually 3 hours at about 32 to 34km/h, average age in the 50's!!! (I'm one of the youngest at 43!)

Hardly ever less than 20.

But this is France where cycling is tolerated, welcomed even, whereas in the UK, it ain't…….

markhewitt1978

IME groups of any size, but particularly 4+ will cause motorists to be 'irate'.

Mikey23

The size of the group is immaterial IMHO. What's more important is the level of common sense and disciple of the group. And yes, I intend to move to France when I can and experience a bike friendly atmosphere for the remainder of my years...

saprkzz

I don't like anymore than 4 really, means you can get to single file easy and still be safe... at weekends the club ride is around 10, which is ok as long as we hit country roads, and soon as we enter oxford or high Wycombe (towns like that) then it makes me cringe the havoc we cause.. hate it!!

rubertoe

So you have 40 riders out, divide them into groups of 4 you now have 10 groups out, spread out over several miles of lanes.... what irritates more? 10 small groups annoying or a larger group that knows how to ride.

Have a read of this.

Drivers need to be more tolerant and cyslists need to use common sense, Groups of 8-10 are fine IMO.

kwi

madasahattersley wrote:

I think up to 8 is fine if all are of similar ability and experience, or less if there're some newbies in there. Trouble is the newbies don't realise what a danger their large groups are, so some clubs will have groups of 20+ all inexperienced, so cause chaos.

I'm really torn between going out with my club exactly because of this, 'B group' and 'beginners' run together (Not up with the 'A group', yet.) on Sunday mornings and it does feel like the group is too large, but I enjoy the craic.
I have suggested introducing a 'C group ' to help reduce the group sizes, but nothing yet.

oldhairylegs

No simple answer to this as it depends on so many variables, in particular the number of inexperienced riders in the group and how busy the roads are.

Our Saturday club rides have become very popular (regularly 25 - 30 riders) and can sometimes be difficult to manage, but generally we are able to ride without causing issues to other road users if everyone follows the rules.

Need to have good leaders on the road both at the front and at the back, with good communication passing up and down. Riding tight two abreast is generally better and makes for easier overtaking by cars and if we ever think that we are causing problems then we will pull over and get out of the way. On busier/wider roads, we will single out and split into smaller groups to give vehicles a place to move into as they make their way past us.

The vast majority of car drivers are patient and will happily wait to pass - especially if they can see that the riders are trying to help them on their way. There will always be the occasional idiot/abuser, but frankly you will get these when you are riding in groups of two or three anyway.

racingcondor

We aim for no more than 12 but my preference is more like 8. UK roads and UK drivers aren't the most tolerant of large groups.

drlodge

My club aims for 8-9 max, however this is dependent on their being enough ride leaders (with route tracking ability) to have multiple groups. On Sunday we started out with 2 small groups but combined on the way back since a couple of people had dropped off.

The bigger the group, the more disciplined it needs to be. Ideal group size I'd say is 6-8.

ck101

I've seen 20 on my club rides. I feel 10 is about right.

slowbike

Gosh - all these absolute numbers of how many riders you can have in a group before it is considered too big ...

Has nobody thought that the answer is

It depends ....

or

somewhere between X and Y approximately

If X is considered the "maximum size" for a group - what do you do if the +1 rider turns up - turned away or you have to create two separate groups?
Or - if the extra rider isn't a significant proportion do you just accept it and ride "too big" ...

hangeron

How many riders take up the same roadspace as a HGV, or a tractor and trailer, or a coach?

hangeron

madasahattersley wrote:

hangeron wrote:

How many riders take up the same roadspace as a HGV, or a tractor and trailer, or a coach?

Irrelevant...

Is it....oh ok


Thanks

Brakeless

madasahattersley wrote:

hangeron wrote:

madasahattersley wrote:

hangeron wrote:

How many riders take up the same roadspace as a HGV, or a tractor and trailer, or a coach?

Irrelevant...

Is it....oh ok


Thanks

Well you could probably squeeze a bunch of 40 cyclists into the same road space as an HGV, but you'll have the most disruptive, slow and dangerous situation imaginable if a number of them are inexperienced

69 bikes would be pretty similar to an HGV

http://www.danielbowen.com/2012/09/19/road-space-photo/

Monty Dog

2 if they were riding like the 2 mamils I encountered the other day riding side-by-side on windy road with a double white line down the middle. Their fat necks obviously prevented them from turning their heads to see the line of cars patiently waiting to get past...people riding like that aren't helping the cause.

walney

If it was a windy road with double solid white lines, does it matter how many cyclists there is? 2 abreast or not? Unless they were doing less than 10mph then you are not allowed to cross or straddle solid whites to overtake.

YellaBelly

To the letter of the law, and assuming a car will give the space required to pass a cyclist properly (ie/ moving fully over into the other lane), then yes a solid white line should prevent a car being able to overtake a cyclist.

But at the end of the day, why be difficult about it? If it's a road wide enough to let cars pass by riding single file, then why be belligerent and ride two abreast? All that does is wind motorists up and add fuel to the "we hate cyclists" fire. It doesn't matter to me if a car passed by straddling a solid white line, provided it was done safely. I'd much prefer that than having a que of grumpy, impatient cars following my back wheel.

Mikey23

How big depends on the number of club members who are willing to volunteer to lead groups... In my limited experience that's not too many

markhewitt1978

There seems to be an overwheming view that a single cyclist is easy to overtake, without moving aside or out of the lane - even among cyclists.

walney

YellaBelly wrote:

To the letter of the law, and assuming a car will give the space required to pass a cyclist properly (ie/ moving fully over into the other lane), then yes a solid white line should prevent a car being able to overtake a cyclist.

But at the end of the day, why be difficult about it? If it's a road wide enough to let cars pass by riding single file, then why be belligerent and ride two abreast? All that does is wind motorists up and add fuel to the "we hate cyclists" fire. It doesn't matter to me if a car passed by straddling a solid white line, provided it was done safely. I'd much prefer that than having a que of grumpy, impatient cars following my back wheel.

I agree that It is sensible to allow motorists to pass if possible and will always thin out in these situations, but white lines are an indication that overtaking on that stretch is dangerous.

I have often been cycling toward a car straddling the white lines overtaking cyclists in single file. In the end it compromised everyone's safety having a car dive between us at 60+.
A lot of motorists argue that we should obey the rules of the roads, red light etc, which I do.
Some cyclists may pass through the red light illegally because they have judged it to be safe, what difference is this to crossing white lines because the driver judges it to be safe?

jimmurray

Not necessarily illegal to cross a solid white when overtaking a cyclist.