Inside Team Sky - David Walsh *Spoilers*
Comments
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mike6 wrote:nic_77 wrote:
How far through the book have you got? DW makes it pretty clear he had unlimited access.rayjay wrote:lets talk about how David Walsh only got to see what DB wanted him to see.
It's sugar coated nonsense with a few token gestures thrown in. "Where's the pooh"
Makes no difference Nic, people that have an anti Sky agenda only want there prejudice confirming, they are not interested in hearing what an un biased report or story has to say. :roll:
Your right I don't like Sky. How did you know that.
I believe in what my eyes see and not the sh#5 that gets spoken. I'm a sky atheist. 0 -
Macaloon wrote:^Correct. Nursing brittle Wiggins to first Brit winner of the Tour was miraculous.
I'm not sure there is any part of that sentence I agree with.
Are you bored arguing with Shane now?
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
TailWindHome wrote:Macaloon wrote:^Correct. Nursing brittle Wiggins to first Brit winner of the Tour was miraculous.
I'm not sure there is any part of that sentence I agree with.
Are you bored arguing with Shane now?
Who do you think you're talking to? It's like wrestling with a jellyfish. No point to it.
As for Wiggins, in all seriousness, I think it's remarkable that he dealt with his Froome demons from the 2011 Vuelta while managing a storming season culminating in handling the Tour pressure reasonably well. You can't argue with Brailsford's results. But he might have been a trifle lucky here....a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
Fine. Good for you. But how about not criticising a book you're never going to read.rayjay wrote:mike6 wrote:nic_77 wrote:
How far through the book have you got? DW makes it pretty clear he had unlimited access.rayjay wrote:lets talk about how David Walsh only got to see what DB wanted him to see.
It's sugar coated nonsense with a few token gestures thrown in. "Where's the pooh"
Makes no difference Nic, people that have an anti Sky agenda only want there prejudice confirming, they are not interested in hearing what an un biased report or story has to say. :roll:
Your right I don't like Sky. How did you know that. I believe in what my eyes see and not the sh#5 that gets spoken. I'm a sky atheist.
Also whilst your at it, how about not spoiling my enjoyment of the entire forum with your deliberately provocative, badly presented and unfunny posts. I have no problem with your opinions just the tiresome way you present them... (Just my opinion of course. I'm a rayjayophobe.)0 -
From reading it some far, the bits that have caught my interest are:
Rod Ellingworth and Oli Cookson (yes he's his son) being stopped by the cops is quite funny. A story that involves Rod asking Oli why the hell he has a bag full of jam.
There's one line which Frenchie will love - "Team Sky isn't an outfit that does high fives. Certainly not without cleaning their hands with alcohol rub immediately afterwards".
There's a bit about Brailsford going on French TV expecting to be on with Cedric Vasseur who had said that he didn't believe that Froome's performances were clean. Vasseur doesn't turn up but Brailsford says that he intended to accuse Vasseur of being doped and then show how he didn't like being accused of doping without evidence. Odd seeing as Vasseur was on the 2000 US Postal Tour team and then at Cofidis in 2003. Vasseur's easy to pin into a doping corner.
Brailsford (and others) seem to have a more easy fun relationship with Thomas than any other rider. I assume this is because Cardiff people are superior to all others.
A criticism I would have of the book so far is the bits about data. Walsh voices the exact same concerns that I have on the topic of data and its relevance to doping. He covers all the ground well. However, I would have preferred him to tell it with more quotes from experts, which he doesn't. He mentions Vayer's magazine but I would love to hear someone like Ben Goldacre critique it.Twitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:Brailsford (and others) seem to have a more easy fun relationship with Thomas than any other rider. I assume this is because Cardiff people are superior to all others.
I can't imagine anyone having trouble getting on with Gee...It'd be like having trouble liking a puppy crossed with a kittenWe're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
RichN95 wrote:From reading it some far, the bits that have caught my interest are:
Rod Ellingworth and Oli Cookson (yes he's his son) being stopped by the cops is quite funny. A story that involves Rod asking Oli why the hell he has a bag full of jam.
There's one line which Frenchie will love - "Team Sky isn't an outfit that does high fives. Certainly not without cleaning their hands with alcohol rub immediately afterwards".
There's a bit about Brailsford going on French TV expecting to be on with Cedric Vasseur who had said that he didn't believe that Froome's performances were clean. Vasseur doesn't turn up but Brailsford says that he intended to accuse Vasseur of being doped and then show how he didn't like being accused of doping without evidence. Odd seeing as Vasseur was on the 2000 US Postal Tour team and then at Cofidis in 2003. Vasseur's easy to pin into a doping corner.
Brailsford (and others) seem to have a more easy fun relationship with Thomas than any other rider. I assume this is because Cardiff people are superior to all others.
A criticism I would have of the book so far is the bits about data. Walsh voices the exact same concerns that I have on the topic of data and its relevance to doping. He covers all the ground well. However, I would have preferred him to tell it with more quotes from experts, which he doesn't. He mentions Vayer's magazine but I would love to hear someone like Ben Goldacre critique it.
Well, why would they, high fives are an American affectation, gentlemen shake hands.......and then disinfect there hands. 0 -
RichN95 wrote:Oli Cookson (yes he's his son)
The Clinic aren't liking that at all.
Worse than Armstrong and Hein apparently“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
TailWindHome wrote:RichN95 wrote:Oli Cookson (yes he's his son)
The Clinic aren't liking that at all.
Worse than Armstrong and Hein apparently
Oh good, the Clinic being in yet another tizz of outrage is always a cheery thing
He's been with the team for at least the last 3 years. Well documented - the Richard Moore book, Birnie's extensive article from time embedded with the team at the '11 Dauphin, for starters. Heaven help it if the Clinic faithful ever have to actually read anything by credible journos, rather than the guff they misquote or fabricate.0 -
RichN95 wrote:
A criticism I would have of the book so far is the bits about data. Walsh voices the exact same concerns that I have on the topic of data and its relevance to doping. He covers all the ground well. However, I would have preferred him to tell it with more quotes from experts, which he doesn't. He mentions Vayer's magazine but I would love to hear someone like Ben Goldacre critique it.
I'd absolutely love Goldacre to go to work on the whole "debate", but especially on Vayer's input.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
No tA Doctor wrote:RichN95 wrote:
A criticism I would have of the book so far is the bits about data. Walsh voices the exact same concerns that I have on the topic of data and its relevance to doping. He covers all the ground well. However, I would have preferred him to tell it with more quotes from experts, which he doesn't. He mentions Vayer's magazine but I would love to hear someone like Ben Goldacre critique it.
I'd absolutely love Goldacre to go to work on the whole "debate", but especially on Vayer's input.
I third this. How do we make it happen?0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:No tA Doctor wrote:RichN95 wrote:
A criticism I would have of the book so far is the bits about data. Walsh voices the exact same concerns that I have on the topic of data and its relevance to doping. He covers all the ground well. However, I would have preferred him to tell it with more quotes from experts, which he doesn't. He mentions Vayer's magazine but I would love to hear someone like Ben Goldacre critique it.
I'd absolutely love Goldacre to go to work on the whole "debate", but especially on Vayer's input.
I third this. How do we make it happen?
No chance. I tweeted a couple of links to him at the time with no response. He's pretty busy with the massively more important matter of radically reforming pharma research. Good luck to him in it.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
No tA Doctor wrote:No chance. I tweeted a couple of links to him at the time with no response. He's pretty busy with the massively more important matter of radically reforming pharma research. Good luck to him in it.
I'm sure the Science of Sport guys would be happy to clarify that Veloclinic's entire theory of the limits to human physiology is based on a single study of a single team at one stage race. But hey, it's good to be asking the questions and gaming the scenarios....a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
Didn't know this was coming out. I wont be buying a copy. Good to read a few interesting points here.Contador is the Greatest0
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rayjay wrote:Wasn't Lance Armstrong the first man on the moon ?
Some school kid actually answered with Lance on a test paper.
We all know it was his dad Neil
He was taking that much shlt he could get to the moon!!0 -
nic_77 wrote:
Fine. Good for you. But how about not criticising a book you're never going to read.rayjay wrote:mike6 wrote:nic_77 wrote:
How far through the book have you got? DW makes it pretty clear he had unlimited access.rayjay wrote:lets talk about how David Walsh only got to see what DB wanted him to see.
It's sugar coated nonsense with a few token gestures thrown in. "Where's the pooh"
Makes no difference Nic, people that have an anti Sky agenda only want there prejudice confirming, they are not interested in hearing what an un biased report or story has to say. :roll:
Your right I don't like Sky. How did you know that. I believe in what my eyes see and not the sh#5 that gets spoken. I'm a sky atheist.
Also whilst your at it, how about not spoiling my enjoyment of the entire forum with your deliberately provocative, badly presented and unfunny posts. I have no problem with your opinions just the tiresome way you present them... (Just my opinion of course. I'm a rayjayophobe.)
Who says I was talking about the book . Whilst your at it How about you not spoiling my enjoyment ...no actually i'm not bothered. I can listen and enjoy another's view with out getting upset because they don't agree with me even when I get petty comments. Cheers. 0 -
RideOnTime wrote:rayjay wrote:Wasn't Lance Armstrong the first man on the moon ?
Some school kid actually answered with Lance on a test paper.
We all know it was his dad Neil
He was taking that much shlt he could get to the moon!!
I don't think Postal had a space program. So just to clarify he could not go to the moon on his bike. 0 -
rayjay wrote:RideOnTime wrote:rayjay wrote:Wasn't Lance Armstrong the first man on the moon ?
Some school kid actually answered with Lance on a test paper.
We all know it was his dad Neil
He was taking that much shlt he could get to the moon!!
I don't think Postal had a space program. So just to clarify he could not go to the moon on his bike.
Have you ever watched Andy Parsons (on Mock the Week)? He goes through the motions of a joke without it really being one, I think you'd really like him.0 -
Can anyone verify if the 'yellow butterfly story' doing the rounds on Twitter and The Clinic is actually in the book?“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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There's mention of someone seeing a butterfly. I cant that it's worthy of any comment though.TailWindHome wrote:Can anyone verify if the 'yellow butterfly story' doing the rounds on Twitter and The Clinic is actually in the book?Twitter: @RichN950 -
mfin wrote:rayjay wrote:RideOnTime wrote:rayjay wrote:Wasn't Lance Armstrong the first man on the moon ?posting.php?mode=quote&f=40002&p=18632720#
Some school kid actually answered with Lance on a test paper.
We all know it was his dad Neil
He was taking that much shlt he could get to the moon!!
I don't think Postal had a space program. So just to clarify he could not go to the moon on his bike.
Have you ever watched Andy Parsons (on Mock the Week)? He goes through the motions of a joke without it really being one, I think you'd really like him.
A bit like your post 0 -
I genuinely think you'd enjoy it. For one thing it does endorse some of your views about Sky (and their rigid professionalism) but it does provide some perspective on the approach. I have also enjoyed reading more about the roles and personalities behind the scenes at a race like the tour.frenchfighter wrote:Didn't know this was coming out. I wont be buying a copy. Good to read a few interesting points here.
Give it a go!0 -
More spoilers...
I'm now into a chapter dealing with the ongoing reconciliation between CF and BW. It seems they have talked through some of the issues and both appear to accept that they need the other - CF needs BW to strengthen his team for 2014, and BW needs to ride for CF next year to justify his place in the team and salary. One of BW's major problems is that every time he's committed to a massive training load before it has been him that stands to be victorious (ie tour win, multiple olympics) - it remains a big question as to whether he can dedicate himself to someone else (that isn't necessary a fault). Either way it does seem like the plan is for them to ride the tour together next year... we shall see!
DW has also covered JTL - I'm only part way through this, but... it appears that the story came out via the UCI and Walsh's various sources there. DB wasn't clearly wasn't happy but didn't deny it when DW gave him the chance to comment before publishing (DB was of the opinion that the confidential process should be given time to be completed).
Overall opinion update - some really good insight, content (and balance) in this book.0 -
Oh and digger gets a name check. I'm sure he's creaming himself... I might check back through his timeline at some point.0
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nic_77 wrote:DW has also covered JTL - I'm only part way through this, but... it appears that the story came out via the UCI and Walsh's various sources there. DB wasn't clearly wasn't happy but didn't deny it when DW gave him the chance to comment before publishing (DB was of the opinion that the confidential process should be given time to be completed).
Okay, interesting conclusion to the JTL story... DWs main criticism is that Sky failed to really look into JTLs history - not that there was any true evidence, but there had certainly been rumour including a piece in l'Equipe which DB hadn't even encountered. Instead they had trusted Garmin's testing and personal recommendations. Of course this does nothing to condemn JTL but it does suggest continued negligence by Sky in their recruitment policy (thus repeating the Leinders failings).
Anyway Sky are determined to improve. DW explains that latest signings like Nieve was investigated more rigourously (including independent analysis of passport data) and Nathan Earle (coming from pro-conti) was "tested to within an inch of his life".
I am convinced that Sky are good guys. Doing everything that they can to promote clean cycling (including learning from their mistakes). I have a variety of reasons to believe that DW is unimpeachable.0 -
The book is excellent. A great insight into Team Sky ProCycling. It should shut up some of the doubters although some just want to see doping in everything.
Towards the end or the book DB outlines plans for 2014. He said they'll be releasing the entire teams biological passports to the Sky website. They'll also share Froome's powerstats on a regular basis with details on how to interpret them.
Brailsford also said they're going to set up an internal testing program for the top tier riders and release all the results to the Internet.
It will be the most rigous anti-doping policy of any team.
It just shows that Sky are leading the way in the racing and in a clean sport.0 -
whiteboytrash wrote:The book is excellent. A great insight into Team Sky ProCycling. It should shut up some of the doubters although some just want to see doping in everything.
Towards the end or the book DB outlines plans for 2014. He said they'll be releasing the entire teams biological passports to the Sky website. They'll also share Froome's powerstats on a regular basis with details on how to interpret them.
Brailsford also said they're going to set up an internal testing program for the top tier riders and release all the results to the Internet.
It will be the most rigous anti-doping policy of any team.
It just shows that Sky are leading the way in the racing and in a clean sport.
Ummm....this isn't what is stated in the book. The only paragraph that I can see you might be referring to, is this one:
He (DB) talks of needing even more openness and transparency. Maintaining the same level of performance is very important, but Team Sky will be looking to collaborate more openly with science community experts to provide more evidence and be more open. Blood data, power data, training regimes ; he would hand them all to genuine experts in a heartbeat. Let them draw conclusions that would be beyond reproach.
There's nothing there about releasing all the data to the internet at large, or posting data on the team's website0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:whiteboytrash wrote:The book is excellent. A great insight into Team Sky ProCycling. It should shut up some of the doubters although some just want to see doping in everything.
Towards the end or the book DB outlines plans for 2014. He said they'll be releasing the entire teams biological passports to the Sky website. They'll also share Froome's powerstats on a regular basis with details on how to interpret them.
Brailsford also said they're going to set up an internal testing program for the top tier riders and release all the results to the Internet.
It will be the most rigous anti-doping policy of any team.
It just shows that Sky are leading the way in the racing and in a clean sport.
Ummm....this isn't what is stated in the book. The only paragraph that I can see you might be referring to, is this one:
He (DB) talks of needing even more openness and transparency. Maintaining the same level of performance is very important, but Team Sky will be looking to collaborate more openly with science community experts to provide more evidence and be more open. Blood data, power data, training regimes ; he would hand them all to genuine experts in a heartbeat. Let them draw conclusions that would be beyond reproach.
There's nothing there about releasing all the data to the internet at large, or posting data on the team's website
He's doing satire.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
This discussion has been closed.
