The Alfine thread

dodgy

Hi all,

Just ordered a Day One Alfine on the C2W scheme, the scheme provider discounts the bike to £899 before the usual tax benefits, so it's a bit of a bargain.

Anyone have experience of this bike? I'm anticipating that the wheels might be the weak link here, they often are at this price range, perhaps I'm wrong, though.

I'd be interested to hear if the wheels are worthy of being upgraded, and to what? I know I haven't received the bike yet, but since I don't own any disc or alfine equipped bikes, a spare set of wheels is never a bad thing (the OEM would be the spares). The bike is essentially just a fastish commute tool on a variety of surfaces, including a 4 mile stretch of gravel/puddles (like a canal side track).


Cheers

ugo.santalucia

Genesis normally fit decent wheels to their bikes and these will be no exception. Heavy, yes... sluggish yes, but solid.

WIth Alfine disc you are kind of limited to how much you can upgrade... the hub cannot be upgraded, the spoke count neither. It'll be 32 spokes and maybe a lighter rim... worth it only if the stock wheels are seriously slow.
Ride it over winter and see how you like it

dodgy

Sounds sensible, thanks for the good advice

It comes with Continental Sport Contact 32c tyres, I guess there's room for improvement there. Though the main priority is avoiding punctures on the rear, looks like a bit of a ball ache to sort out at the road/trail side.

cycleclinic

Given the rims genesis nromally use you get a 50g weight saving by going for a lighter rim. So it would be much. As for punctures try tubless as then you can use sealant, in fact sealant in your inner tubes maybe a good idea as taking a alfine wheel out at the road side on a cold wet day is not too much fun.

ugo.santalucia

dodgy wrote:

Sounds sensible, thanks for the good advice

It comes with Continental Sport Contact 32c tyres, I guess there's room for improvement there. Though the main priority is avoiding punctures on the rear, looks like a bit of a ball ache to sort out at the road/trail side.

I don't know the contact Sport, but you can try a Vittoria Randonneur PRO. You have to do something pretty spectacular to puncture one of these. I have used them for 9 months day after day on the glass littered commute on the canal path into work... probably around 3-4,000 miles by now. Zero punctures, zero deep cuts, they even ride very well, better than most road Continental tyres, in fact. Try... they're half price at Planet X

bendertherobot

ugo.santalucia wrote:

dodgy wrote:

Sounds sensible, thanks for the good advice

It comes with Continental Sport Contact 32c tyres, I guess there's room for improvement there. Though the main priority is avoiding punctures on the rear, looks like a bit of a ball ache to sort out at the road/trail side.

I don't know the contact Sport, but you can try a Vittoria Randonneur PRO. You have to do something pretty spectacular to puncture one of these. I have used them for 9 months day after day on the glass littered commute on the canal path into work... probably around 3-4,000 miles by now. Zero punctures, zero deep cuts, they even ride very well, better than most road Continental tyres, in fact. Try... they're half price at Planet X

This. I'll never go back.

On Genesis wheels, it depends, the Alex ones are, IMO, not good.

natsnoz

I had a day one alfine and put gatorskin hardshell on the rear, the end of punctures for me, which was a good thing as they were common before and a pain to fix. Enjoyed the bike though.

bendertherobot

Yes, on an Alfine, or even a single speed you really don't want to have to fix punctures.

dodgy

Especially if you have mudguards fitted! Though I'll be using SKS quick releases on the rear as well as front. Shame that this (almost) maintenance free wonder I'm about to receive has this Achilles heal with rear punctures being a nightmare.

bobinski

I have been running Hardshells on my Alfine hubbed Kinesis pro6 and a double puncture on the rear this week-both on potholes,100psi and i weigh 75kilos-has convinced me to order the Vitorrias. I have a love hate relationship with the hub. Its largely hassle free but sorting a puncture is a nightmare.Particuarly in the dark and the rain and with ageing eyesight. Do wonder if tubeless or tubs with sealant is a better solution with the hub.

tomhowells

I'm running with Conti Gatorskins on my road bike, but after 2,500 miles I am starting to puncture regularly - time for a change I think, they are pretty cut up & I use the bike every day for my 10 mile each way commute.

The conti's I have are 25mm - do you reckon I could get away with putting the 32mm Radonneur Pro on it or is that pushing the clearance a bit too far?

ugo.santalucia

tomhowells wrote:

I'm running with Conti Gatorskins on my road bike, but after 2,500 miles I am starting to puncture regularly - time for a change I think, they are pretty cut up & I use the bike every day for my 10 mile each way commute.

The conti's I have are 25mm - do you reckon I could get away with putting the 32mm Radonneur Pro on it or is that pushing the clearance a bit too far?

Most road bikes won't take 32

tomhowells

Thought I might be out of luck! Cheers for replying though.

MichaelW

Punctures with Alfine are a bit more of an inconvenience compared to QR derailleur gears but not much.
I carry a small bit of wire (like 2" of spoke) to untension the cassette arm and some leatherman needle-nosed pliers to grab the cable nut, give a little rotation and remove from the arm. The latest cassette arm can apparently be unhooked without pliers.
Once the cable is unhooked, the wheel can be removed with a spanner. The coloured anti-rotation washers stay on the axle.

Once you have done it a couple of times, it is just routine.

Mudguards are a separate issue. On my verticle dropout/eccentric BB (and sliding BB) this is not an issue.
One some track ends, you may need to remove the wheel deflated to get enough forward slack in the chain.

bobinski

MichaelW wrote:

Punctures with Alfine are a bit more of an inconvenience compared to QR derailleur gears but not much.
I carry a small bit of wire (like 2" of spoke) to untension the cassette arm and some leatherman needle-nosed pliers to grab the cable nut, give a little rotation and remove from the arm. The latest cassette arm can apparently be unhooked without pliers.
Once the cable is unhooked, the wheel can be removed with a spanner. The coloured anti-rotation washers stay on the axle.

Once you have done it a couple of times, it is just routine.

Mudguards are a separate issue. On my verticle dropout/eccentric BB (and sliding BB) this is not an issue.
One some track ends, you may need to remove the wheel deflated to get enough forward slack in the chain.

I disagree. Its a fair bit more an inconvenience. You have to have practised removal and replacing the wheel.There are some youtube videos users have made and i would urge anyone buying an alfine hubbed bike to look at them and practice. You dont want to be doing it the first time while out out on your bike in the rain etc.! Also, you have to carry extra tools over and above those on a bike with qr wheels. If you have more than 1 bike you have to remember to carry the right tools depending on which bike you take. And if you are running mudguards....
You dont have to remove a wheel of course. If you are carrying patches you can leave the wheel on, remove 1 side of the tyre and locate and patch the puncture. Not always possible but probably more often than not. Other than that run tyres and at a pressure that reduce the risk of punctures.

dodgy

Some great info, thanks folks, looks like we've unearthed a few alfine owners. Any advice on where to find (and length etc) the right fixings for mudguards as per this article? http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/blog/25/0 ... cross-bike

dodgy

Thought it was time to give an update on this thread, maybe some of the stuff I found might be handy.

First of all, Madison sent me the fixings referenced in the above article free of charge, I just emailed them and 2 days later they were here. But I've found that a slightly better solution is to use nylon bumpers/washers, I have some nice think ones about 10mm wide, so I used 2 of them which was enough to get the mudguard stays clear of the disc brake callipers. The reason I think they're better is that the pillars Madison sent really puts the stays far out, too far out, meaning they're vulnerable. The rubber washers also are kind to the frame.

Biggest surprise of all was that on its maiden voyage today (yeah, yeah, new bike so perhaps I'm happier and thus pedalling harder) it felt no slower than my much more expensive Lynskey Ti Sportive (Planet X supplied). Quite a surprise, since the Day One Alfine is considerably heavier and has 32mm wired tyres (25mm Pro Race 4 Endurance on the Lynskey). Where it really came into its own was on rough ground, including cattle grids, the bike just sails over them and the overall confidence you get is like a breath of fresh air compared with skinny 23mm tyres.

Suffice to say, I won't be upgrading the wheels! A real luxury would be a spare set fitted with treaded/knobbly CX tyres, but the cost would prohibive with an additional alfine to pay for.

Finally, here's a pic from the first ride today. This is easily the most VFM from a bike I've ever owned, it's outstanding! Initially I thought this wouldn't be the bike from my small stable of 3 that I'd choose for longer and hillier rides, but I've reconsidered that now. I reckon I could travel the world on this!

ugo.santalucia

Agree, 32 mm tyres rock! You only notice the difference against the clock, where you lose 4-5 seconds per mile vs a good 23 mm tyre at 100-120 PSI... nothing in the real world
On bad roads they are actually faster

redhanded

A minor cautionary tale about Alfine 11s. I have one on my Roadrat and it had to go back twice to Madison to fix an oil leak on the drive side. This revealed itself after leaving the bike at an angle then the next morning there was a puddle of oil on the floor underneath the hub...

If you google, it seems a number of people have had the same issue so I don't know if I was unlucky, or if there has been a dodgy batch or whatever.

No problems (touch wood...) for almost a year. Other than than the leaks, it has been rock solid. No maintenance is great for what I use it for - a year-round commuting/workhorse type of bike.

I've got mudguards and changing a wheel roadside would be a major faff so am running Marathon Pluses and (touch wood again...) have yet to have any p*******s.

dodgy

Had the bike a few weeks now, main niggle is the rear wheel build quality. It's not quite round and has a few wobbles, it's never been perfect from day one. I have a tension meter and the tensions are all over the place. I think I'll either send it back for a rebuild when the weather improves and I'm using my dry weather bikes, or I'll rebuild it myself.

ugo.santalucia

dodgy wrote:

Had the bike a few weeks now, main niggle is the rear wheel build quality. It's not quite round and has a few wobbles, it's never been perfect from day one. I have a tension meter and the tensions are all over the place. I think I'll either send it back for a rebuild when the weather improves and I'm using my dry weather bikes, or I'll rebuild it myself.

Rebuild it yourself...

dodgy

Probably will, whilst I can't build as fast as a pro, I can get similar results in about 5 times the time

dodgy

Rain forecast today (never came) so spent an hour re-tensioning the rear wheel. Backed the tension all the way off on all spokes until they visibly wobbled, then gradually and evenly added tension back in. In the end I got it perfect apart from an a very slight vertical wobble (in effect the wheel is not round), but this wobble was in the same place before as I marked it before I started. Looks like there's a minor defect which I'm happy to leave as is.

Now the bike is completely quiet, those slightly annoying 'ticks' and clicks that I had put down to the alfine were apparently uneven spoke tension.

Takeaway is, if you buy one of these from Genesis, take a good look at the wheel and if the tension is uneven be prepared to put it right.