One Headphone...

GiantMike

Tom Dean wrote:

MajorMantra wrote:

Tom Dean wrote:

MajorMantra wrote:

When riding solo I use two headphones. They let in a lot of background noise, I always ride predictably, and I am very careful to do life-saver checks over my shoulder when making any kind of maneuver. Sue me.

Your problem will come when someone hits you and you want to sue them.

As someone previously commented, show me some precedence for this, otherwise it's idle speculation. If I get run over whilst cycling in a straight line my wearing or not wearing of headphones is immaterial.

Lucky you only ride in straight lines then. If something does happen, just tell the lawyers that headphones make no difference and they will just accept it :roll: oh, and that you're always careful.

Is there a precedent for a cyclist getting reduced compensation as a result of wearing headphones? Or a non-cycling equivalent?

majormantra

Tom Dean wrote:

Lucky you only ride in straight lines then. If something does happen, just tell the lawyers that headphones make no difference and they will just accept it :roll: oh, and that you're always careful.

Obviously lawyers would look for any angle, but I don't choose to live my life on the basis of how things might be misrepresented in court.

kingstonian

Each to their own, but I'm not going to be wearing headphones while riding a bike. I just think I have to ride with heightened senses as it is, without taking one of them away.

Mikey23

@gm... I recall the crown v annoying person wearing headphones while cycling 2007. Got sent to the tower and died shortly afterwards. Very sad.

ai_1

Slowbike wrote:

Ai_1 wrote:

I think anything that impairs your hearing is a seriously bad idea.
People keep bringing up the fact that we listen to the radio on motorbikes or in cars. There's a big difference and it's this: Cyclists usually travel slower than the majority of traffic. This means most danger comes from behind, not in front. Therefore we rely pretty heavily on hearing what's happening behind us (at least I do). Cars and motorbikes have effective mirrors for seeing behind them.

So if we fitted mirrors to our cycles we could ride with headphones in?

You have edited my comment in such a way as to make it look like I'm saying mirrors are the difference and then you take issue with that assertion! The misquote does not represent what I actually said.
Please do not intentionally misconstrue my comments. :x

It's pretty obvious that my original post does NOT say mirrors make headphones okay.

I would appreciate if you would correct the quote you've used to reflect what I actually said or to indicate that you have edited it.

ai_1

Barrie_g63 wrote:

.........As has also been said about other cyclists coming up and passing from behind, if your on a quiet road and get passed from behind, you don't hear them even without music until they are passing you, i know from experience as something like this has happened to me a couple of times, funnily enough normally when i'm not listening to anything, and due to wind noise or whatever there is nothing to give away their approach.

If I am overtaking another cyclist I will often warn them by calling "Passing on your right" or similar. I don't think I'm the only one.

fatsmoker

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tomchiversscience/100246626/boris-dont-ban-cycling-with-headphones-youll-make-people-die-younger/
Interesting article here on this topic. Some of the comments are ace, like - fewer of you pesky cyclists riding in the middle of the road would make for a quicker commute :?: Duh!

lewiskinch

lewiskinch wrote:

Carbonator wrote:

6/ You simply do not need to concentrate as much driving a car so you can afford the distraction of the music/chat.

Wait, what?

CAN WE HAVE SOME ATTENTION ON THIS PLEASE.

Exactly the kind of stupid attitude that gets people killed

davep1

lewiskinch wrote:

lewiskinch wrote:

Carbonator wrote:

6/ You simply do not need to concentrate as much driving a car so you can afford the distraction of the music/chat.

Wait, what?

CAN WE HAVE SOME ATTENTION ON THIS PLEASE.

Exactly the kind of stupid attitude that gets people killed

I spotted it too!

And as for noise, for me one of the joys of cycling is the noise of the bike, the whirr of the chain and the tyres on the road surface. Never mind the sounds of the countryside; you won't get as much of that with headphones.

The comments about other bikes passing you; I regularly perceive a bike behind me that isn't there, I guess it is some kind of echo of myself bouncing back to me. But on the other side of the coin, I reguarly don't know I am about to passed until the bike is alongside.

adr82

lewiskinch wrote:

lewiskinch wrote:

Carbonator wrote:

6/ You simply do not need to concentrate as much driving a car so you can afford the distraction of the music/chat.

Wait, what?

CAN WE HAVE SOME ATTENTION ON THIS PLEASE.

Exactly the kind of stupid attitude that gets people killed

I think the unspoken ending of that comment is "you can afford the distraction because if you hit something chances are you're going to survive, unlike whoever you just ran into!".

Phil_D

Using 'So' at the start of a sentence? Definitely a 10.

DavidJB

madasahattersley wrote:

Navrig wrote:

Dorset Boy wrote:

madasahattersley wrote:

Training approx 16 hours/week at the moment, and using earphones for most of that. As in 2 earphones of the 'in ear' variety, which don't let much sound in.

I find it helps me focus, stops me getting bored when I'm holding a steady wattage for 5 hours in the flatlands, and I just like listening to music. I don't feel it affects my safety one bit, as long as you ride with maximum awareness then I think it's fine.

How you you ride with 'maximum awareness' when you have shut off one of your main senses?

You'll get no where trying the logical and rational argument with these guys. They are all superhuman and have spidey's sixth sense.

The best approach is tell him how stupid his statement has been and that he is putting himself are a much higher risk of breaking his bike.


(did you see what I did there?)

Pffff, I'm never going to believe it's more dangerous. If I can hear a car behind me I usually assume their going to overtake me. There's no way of telling if it's a drink driver about to plow into me and kill me. Even if I had both ears uncovered there's no way of avoiding that. I don't even see how sound is important out on the road. Drivers are more or less deaf when in a car anyway, particularly with the radio on.

Absolute bollocks.

I can tell if a car is going to close pass me just by the sound of the engine and the direction or If he/she is a boy racer racing me to a choke point i.e a traffic island so I can back off and let him go through rather than him ploughing in to me or many other things.

The sound of engines has probably saved me several times and I actually rank it my most important sense on the road. Saying it doesn't matter is absolute shite.

iPete

DavidJB wrote:

madasahattersley wrote:

Navrig wrote:

Dorset Boy wrote:

madasahattersley wrote:

Training approx 16 hours/week at the moment, and using earphones for most of that. As in 2 earphones of the 'in ear' variety, which don't let much sound in.

I find it helps me focus, stops me getting bored when I'm holding a steady wattage for 5 hours in the flatlands, and I just like listening to music. I don't feel it affects my safety one bit, as long as you ride with maximum awareness then I think it's fine.

How you you ride with 'maximum awareness' when you have shut off one of your main senses?

You'll get no where trying the logical and rational argument with these guys. They are all superhuman and have spidey's sixth sense.

The best approach is tell him how stupid his statement has been and that he is putting himself are a much higher risk of breaking his bike.


(did you see what I did there?)

Pffff, I'm never going to believe it's more dangerous. If I can hear a car behind me I usually assume their going to overtake me. There's no way of telling if it's a drink driver about to plow into me and kill me. Even if I had both ears uncovered there's no way of avoiding that. I don't even see how sound is important out on the road. Drivers are more or less deaf when in a car anyway, particularly with the radio on.

Absolute ****.

I can tell if a car is going to close pass me just by the sound of the engine and the direction or If he/she is a boy racer racing me to a choke point i.e a traffic island so I can back off and let him go through rather than him ploughing in to me or many other things.

The sound of engines has probably saved me several times and I actually rank it my most important sense on the road. Saying it doesn't matter is absolute shite.

Congrats but as crazy as this may sound, this is also achieved whilst listening to a tune in one ear...

slowbike

Ai_1 wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

Ai_1 wrote:

I think anything that impairs your hearing is a seriously bad idea.
People keep bringing up the fact that we listen to the radio on motorbikes or in cars. There's a big difference and it's this: Cyclists usually travel slower than the majority of traffic. This means most danger comes from behind, not in front. Therefore we rely pretty heavily on hearing what's happening behind us (at least I do). Cars and motorbikes have effective mirrors for seeing behind them.

So if we fitted mirrors to our cycles we could ride with headphones in?

You have edited my comment in such a way as to make it look like I'm saying mirrors are the difference and then you take issue with that assertion! The misquote does not represent what I actually said.
Please do not intentionally misconstrue my comments. :x

It's pretty obvious that my original post does NOT say mirrors make headphones okay.

I would appreciate if you would correct the quote you've used to reflect what I actually said or to indicate that you have edited it.

Sorry - I usually include <snip> if I've cut some bits out for clarity (of the post and the bits I'm replying to.)
IMHO I have not misrepresented your post - you have said that hearing is a primary means of knowing what is going on behind you and indicated that motor vehicles have mirrors fitted for that purpose - so a reasonable conclusion could be that having mirrors on the bike would mitigate against the wearing of earphones. I haven't said you've said that - I've asked if that is what you mean - it was not clear in your original post.

slowbike

DavidJB wrote:

Absolute ****.

I can tell if a car is going to close pass me just by the sound of the engine and the direction

I don't normally laugh out loud at work - but that just has to take the biscuit ...

Really - you can tell a close pass by the sound of the engine and the direction ... yer ... right.

DavidJB wrote:

If he/she is a boy racer racing me to a choke point i.e a traffic island so I can back off and let him go through rather than him ploughing in to me or many other things.

That's reasonable

DavidJB wrote:

The sound of engines has probably saved me several times and I actually rank it my most important sense on the road. Saying it doesn't matter is absolute shite.

I find balance and eyesight to be just a little more important than sound - but if you're happy to cycle around with your eyes closed then fine ...

slowbike

I don't listen to music via headphone or speaker whilst riding - TBH my rides are either short hops to work and back, riding with my wife or the odd occasion I go out for a longer ride by myself I'm usually pushing it quite hard ...

IMHO, there's a load of cobblers being spouted off on this thread about the importance or lack thereof of hearing whilst riding.
IME, you cannot always hear whilst riding anyway - wind noise (this morning into a F5 headwind) blocks out a lot. But - being able to tell a vehicle is on the road before you can see it is handy - especially if you don't have constant traffic. Hearing also helps you understand the type of traffic - a motorbike will usually pass easily, a car less so and a bus/lorry needs more space, tractors often take a while to get close. Knowing what is behind you can help you ease their passage - pinch points have already been mentioned - hills is another one - pulling in at the bottom of a short hill to allow an HGV to go past is polite and helps MV/cycle relations in general. Knowing that you've got an idiot revving his engine or shifting gears also helps.
But - you're not going to die just because you can't hear them. I couldn't hear two idiots this morning when they overtook me on the last bit of a descent - I didn't die, but I did shout at them for their idiocy - what would hearing them have done? I had the lane (as I always do) - I was already covering the brakes - I can't suddenly "not be there".

Listening to music or speech distracts the rider - I know a lot of things that distract "the rider" - I use riding to work and back as a time to think - it's easy enough to get to the end of a section and not remember riding it - music is not going to distract me further than I can already do myself - speech may engage you for longer. The only advantage of thinking over external influences as a distraction is that you can turn off that distraction more quickly - so when you do need to concentrate you can.

We're not all riding through busy towns or country lanes - there's all sorts of environments out there to ride in - some require more concentration than others and it will vary throughout the ride anyway. Some people can ignore music/speech at will, others are drawn in by it. Some people gain from having a regular beat to pace their riding to.
We're all different and operate in different ways - as long as we are aware of our limitations we can ride safely and sensibly. No headphones to full noise cancelling headphones - choose carefully and ride carefully ... that's all we can do.

ai_1

Slowbike wrote:

Ai_1 wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

Ai_1 wrote:

I think anything that impairs your hearing is a seriously bad idea.
People keep bringing up the fact that we listen to the radio on motorbikes or in cars. There's a big difference and it's this: Cyclists usually travel slower than the majority of traffic. This means most danger comes from behind, not in front. Therefore we rely pretty heavily on hearing what's happening behind us (at least I do). Cars and motorbikes have effective mirrors for seeing behind them.

So if we fitted mirrors to our cycles we could ride with headphones in?

You have edited my comment in such a way as to make it look like I'm saying mirrors are the difference and then you take issue with that assertion! The misquote does not represent what I actually said.
Please do not intentionally misconstrue my comments. :x

It's pretty obvious that my original post does NOT say mirrors make headphones okay.

I would appreciate if you would correct the quote you've used to reflect what I actually said or to indicate that you have edited it.

Sorry - I usually include <snip> if I've cut some bits out for clarity (of the post and the bits I'm replying to.)
IMHO I have not misrepresented your post - you have said that hearing is a primary means of knowing what is going on behind you and indicated that motor vehicles have mirrors fitted for that purpose - so a reasonable conclusion could be that having mirrors on the bike would mitigate against the wearing of earphones. I haven't said you've said that - I've asked if that is what you mean - it was not clear in your original post.

Fair enough... The main thrust of my post was that drawing parallels between a cyclist with headphones and a motorist with the radio on was not valid. They are not equivalent for a few different reasons. The primary issue as I see it is that cyclists are usually sharing the road with faster vehicles whereas motor vehicles sharing a stretch of road are usually driving at similar speeds except on multi-lane roads. As a result most dangers for motorists are in front of them whereas cyclists frequently (constantly in urban situations) have traffic approaching and overtaking from behind. We can't see what's behind us but we do get some audio clues and I wouldn't give them up voluntarily. I only mentioned mirrors as an additional mitigation available to motorists for dangers from behind.

d10brp

I have a fairly rural commute so use Aftershokz. Any significant noise, like a car drowns out music because my ears are clear.

feltkuota

Is there anyone on here that is hearing impaired? Perhaps they could advise how they manage?

ai_1

feltkuota wrote:

Is there anyone on here that is hearing impaired? Perhaps they could advise how they manage?

That would be interesting but I don't think it adds much to the topic. People already cycle with headphones and manage. I think the question we're discussing is not whether it's possible to manage without full hearing but whether it's wise to voluntarily opt for reduced hearing and potential distraction.

feltkuota

Ai_1 wrote:

feltkuota wrote:

Is there anyone on here that is hearing impaired? Perhaps they could advise how they manage?

That would be interesting but I don't think it adds much to the topic. People already cycle with headphones and manage. I think the question we're discussing is not whether it's possible to manage without full hearing but whether it's wise to voluntarily opt for reduced hearing and potential distraction.

I thought some of the arguments were, it was distracting and there were folks on here advising how they could tell what a vehicle was going to do just by the sound of the engine noise from behind. Both may be valid however I was merely enquiring how those without full hearing managed. If those without full hearing managed quite safely then, in my mind, riding around with one ear piece in cannot be the distraction/accident waiting to happen that some would suggest. Whether that be by design or default matters not..

ai_1

feltkuota wrote:

Ai_1 wrote:

feltkuota wrote:

Is there anyone on here that is hearing impaired? Perhaps they could advise how they manage?

That would be interesting but I don't think it adds much to the topic. People already cycle with headphones and manage. I think the question we're discussing is not whether it's possible to manage without full hearing but whether it's wise to voluntarily opt for reduced hearing and potential distraction.

I thought some of the arguments were, it was distracting and there were folks on here advising how they could tell what a vehicle was going to do just by the sound of the engine noise from behind. Both may be valid however I was merely enquiring how those without full hearing managed. If those without full hearing managed quite safely then, in my mind, riding around with one ear piece in cannot be the distraction/accident waiting to happen that some would suggest. Whether that be by design or default matters not..

I disagree but it is a matter of opinion and to a large extent depends on how much you want/need the headphones to make your cycle tolerable/enjoyable.
I'm not suggesting that cycling with headphones is an extreme sport. But even if cycling with headphones is only marginally more dangerous then I wouldn't be inclined to do it. I suspect headphones significantly increase risk when cycling, especially if played loud or if of the noise cancelling type but I'm not aware of any evidence. However a significant increase in risk might still be a relatively low risk.

The current extreme health and safety culture that exists in many areas of life threatens to ruin enjoyment of many activities in life in the interest of safety and I don't subscribe to that. It's hard to say where the line should be drawn.

ianspeare

When I'm riding, I give 100% of my attention to the road. When coming to a junction or a blind bend, I can hear if there's a car coming or even if there's someone behind me. You also get used to the sound of the bike and if there's anything different I know I'm going to have to take a look at something, be it immediately or when I get home

thegibdog

DavidJB wrote:

I can tell if a car is going to close pass me just by the sound of the engine and the direction

That would make a great You Bet challenge!

I see Boris has waded in on the subject to further distract from the shortcomings of his "Superhighways" whilst simultaneously disrespecting those that have died on his roads. Turns out he isn't just a bumbling buffoon but is, in fact, a scumbag.

Dorset_Boy

A person with impaired hearing will typically have other senses that are heightened to compensate. It is therefore far from a comparable situation.

cyclingsheep

I haven't read through all these posts so forgive me if I'm going over ground already well trodden and slightly off topic but isn't being in traffic with electric cars very similar to having headphones in? It's something I've thought for a while that perhaps manufacturers should have artificial sound for these vehicles, not necessarily for cyclists wearing headphones but for the hard of hearing etc.

Pompey Monkey

I trained (the boring steady miles training) with headphones for over a year when I was younger (20+ years ago).

I had no incidents to note.

One day I decided this practice was, on balance, a bit dangerous so I stopped wearing them.

The very next day, I got hit by a car.

Meh.

feltkuota

Pompey Monkey wrote:

I trained (the boring steady miles training) with headphones for over a year when I was younger (20+ years ago).

I had no incidents to note.

One day I decided this practice was, on balance, a bit dangerous so I stopped wearing them.

The very next day, I got hit by a car.

Meh.

Sir, Whilst I hope you were not injured I did have to laugh at the irony

slowbike

ianspeare wrote:

When I'm riding, I give 100% of my attention to the road.

Somehow I doubt that ...

Rally drivers - they give 100% attention - during their race anyway - you just have to look at how they're behaving to know that the vast majority of us couldn't hold our attention span for that long.

I don't doubt that you always aim to give an appropriate level of attention to the road - but if you've ever thought about anything other than what's going on around you that will affect your ride then you've not given 100% attention - even just noticing a bird (feathered or otherwise) is a distraction.

Druidor

I wear a hook over the earphone on my left ear when cycling, usually with the phone radio running and it gives feedback from my cycling app when it does distances etc.