How Do You Justify the Cost of Your High-End Bike?
Comments
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Pross - exactly, don't understand some of the 'defensive' comments, guilt?0
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I still think that many are missing the point here.
It's not "Is it right / justifiable to spend loads of cash on a high end bicycle?"
but rather'
"How can one justify the very high cost of high-end bicycles compared to similar but cheaper high-spec machinery (like high performance motorcycles?"
or at least that's how I read it…..0 -
Similarities in the OP and this video. Trek Vs Kawa. Yawn.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF4MIEkIBZs0 -
Oh, I get that. To which the answer is that 'it depends'. Is Tesco cod very different to Fortmun and Mason's cod? I bet the price is.bernithebiker wrote:I still think that many are missing the point here.
It's not "Is it right / justifiable to spend loads of cash on a high end bicycle?"
but rather'
"How can one justify the very high cost of high-end bicycles compared to similar but cheaper high-spec machinery (like high performance motorcycles?"
or at least that's how I read it…..
Most people won't have to choose between a motor bike and a cycle for their £9000 budget so the comparison is meaningless as each product sits against its direct competitors in its own market. People who shop in Fortnum and Mason's wouldn't step foot in Tesco so the price difference is irrelevant. Most bikers with a spare £9000 wouldn't consider spending it on a cycle so the 'value for money' element is irrelevant. Kawasaki competes with Honda and Trek competes with Scott.
Having said that, anybody who spends £9000 on a bike has clearly lost any sense of proportion of the value of anything, unless they are the fittest person in the world and can only compete in the Tour on the best bike (in which case Mr Trek or Mr Scott is buying it for them anyway).0 -
I still don't think you understand my point,
which is;
How can it be that a complex, high-tech, powerful motorcycle* that has 170kg of 'stuff' in it, is CHEAPER, than a 7kg carbon fibre moulding with some machined alloy bits on it?
*feel free to replace with car, boat, etc.0 -
GiantMike wrote:I recently did the opposite. Sold my racing car and the TVR I'd had for 15 years. To me the best feeling in the world is being able to live free of any guilt from having expensive stuff in the garage I rarely use. I've grown out of the 'toys getting bigger' mentality and I tend to buy things because I need them rather than just want them.
My wife recently suggested I buy a £5000 Foil (reduced from £10k). I thought about it for about 5 seconds, before I remembered it would actually get used less that my current bike and it would just be a pointless vanity purchase and I hadn't wanted it until she suggested it. Didn't get it, don't regret it for a second. I feel the same way about fast cars. 650 BHP and never get above 90mph. Never sit in traffic thinking 'I wish I was in a faster car going nowhere'.
I totally agree. You use the justification "working hard" for the toys and holidays and find yourself on a treadmill of working harder, longer just to keep the lifestyle going. Then your health fails.......been there got the t shirt and it comes back to value and cost. The value is easily determined but what it actually costs is something else entirely.“Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”
Desmond Tutu0 -
bernithebiker wrote:I still don't think you understand my point,
which is;
How can it be that a complex, high-tech, powerful motorcycle* that has 170kg of 'stuff' in it, is CHEAPER, than a 7kg carbon fibre moulding with some machined alloy bits on it?
*feel free to replace with car, boat, etc.
^ That's the nub of it.
A motorbike like that is made up of thousands of moving parts, is subject to a huge amount of testing and R&D shouldn't really cost the same as a bike where the manufacturer really doesn't have to anywhere near as much work and they hang mainly third party equipment onto the frame.
Economies of scale for sure - but the general cost of bikes these days is astronomical compared to a few years ago.0 -
Simple answer is because they fall for marketing bull shi*.
No way is that Trek worth that or even justifiable. Bike and component manufacturers care having a laugh. If its marketed well people will but anything.
I don't believe anyone needs a roady over £2000. Unless you are a pro and need that extra 1gram less.0 -
I need to know to whom I am justifying the purchase before I can answer the question.Ben
Bikes: Donhou DSS4 Custom | Condor Italia RC | Gios Megalite | Dolan Preffisio | Giant Bowery '76
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ben_h_ppcc/
Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/143173475@N05/0 -
rickeverett wrote:Simple answer is because they fall for marketing bull shi*.
No way is that Trek worth that or even justifiable. Bike and component manufacturers care having a laugh. If its marketed well people will but anything.
I don't believe anyone needs a roady over £2000. Unless you are a pro and need that extra 1gram less.
You may well be right concerning the "need" or lack thereof of anything over £2k but that's not really the point. Does anybody actually "need" the Aston mentioned earlier? Probably not but heh income and desire will dictate what people spend their money on. Nothing wrong with that in my book.0 -
bernithebiker wrote:I still don't think you understand my point,
which is;
How can it be that a complex, high-tech, powerful motorcycle* that has 170kg of 'stuff' in it, is CHEAPER, than a 7kg carbon fibre moulding with some machined alloy bits on it?
*feel free to replace with car, boat, etc.
I understand the point and sort of agree but the question is how do YOU justify the cost not how do the manufacturers justify charging us the cost. The answer remains the same though, if I want something and have the money to pay for it why does it need justification?0 -
rickeverett wrote:
I don't believe anyone needs a roady over £2000. Unless you are a pro and need that extra 1gram less.
Of course no one 'needs' such expensive items....but maybe they 'want' them and if they can afford them what's the problem ?
I have 4 road bikes....one cost £3k and it's is the best by far, quick, responsive and light...we have 3 cars, not because we need them but because we want them.
I work hard, and earn well and if I have the disposable income to buy such things, what difference does it makes to anyone else ?
I'm not a pro cyclist, I ride about 3000 miles per annum but that's my release and I love it. I have colleagues who spend £3k per annum on a season ticket to premier league football teams, I wouldn't but if they enjoy it..so what ?
Each to their own I say.....and it keeps the economy trundling along.0 -
I don't think a lot of people can.
Just a run through some of the bikes in the ads section and you'll see a number of, "Only had 2 weeks" or "Ridden once and covered 20 miles" or "Ridden back from the shop and left in the garage for six months" etc etc.
Looks like some have bitten off more than they can chew, especially on the financial side of things. I recently saw a number of ads for high end bikes in the region of £5k new being sold for around £2.5k, after the owners had only had the bikes for a few weeks (assuming they're telling the truth). Taking a £2.5k hit is sheer stupidity to me! Should've stuck to golf.0 -
If you use it and you can afford it (I.e. meeting needs of all dependents and giving generously etc etc etc), buy it. Most of us would do perfectly fine on £300ish of bike. There definitely is a place for discouraging compete beginners from blowing the whole budget on a flashy bike, but that's either because it's not the right bike for their needs or it's a poor use of the funds... That said, the general Western 'it's my money and I don't have to justify my purchases' atttitude to money is symptomatic of the decadence that blights the planet in general; the vanity purchases (and/or miserly giving) of a few people. There's nothing wrong in challenging people for throwing money around for the sake of it.0
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These are 'halo' bikes. The manufacturers don't even need to sell any to have the marketing effect they are looking for. They are an exercise in excess to get featured in various magazine supplements and any they do sell is a bonus.
No one is forcing people to buy these bikes, but from some of the comments about what a rip off they are, you would think purchase was compulsory.0 -
The Trek and the Kawasaki are misleading to the title (and therefor question) of the post.
I would have thought for most people on here a high end bike is more like £3,000-5,000 and when a decent bike starts at about £1,000-1,500, I do not really see the problem with spending that if you are into cycling.
Spend 3-5k on a watch and people will say it just tells the time (sometimes badly), implying you are a mug.
Even if those people smoke 20 fags a day, both they and society seem to think the comment is a fair one.
Its pure jealousy or just ignorance if someone makes a comment on how much a regular high end bike costs.
Over the time you will have it and how much it will have cost minus its eventual (even if minimal) resale, the people making the comments will have often spent that same money less wisely.
Say it averaged out to £1,000 or even £1,500 a year. People can spunk that in all number of ways without drawing attention to themselves.
The problem is they want all the things they have and the 5 grand bike, so jealousy makes them comment
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If you can afford it and want it then why not?
sure its a lot of money but lots of people have lots of money.
and the way i see it, if people keep buying these bikes it gives companies more money to research new technology and parts etc which will (hopefully) filter down to the bikes I can afford eventually.www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes0 -
The Trek is the top of what they do. The Kawaaki ZX6 is just a run of the mill 600. If you want to compare apples with apples you should have put something like the Ducati Desmosedici RR up as a comparison not the ninja.
The Desmosedici is a limited editon of 1500, retails at £40,000 and is a showcase of what is possible with a road motorcycle.
As to your question, there is no justification required. If you can afford it and want it you buy it, THE END.Yellow is the new Black.0 -
Don't have to, single, non smoker, T total.0
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I agree with most people that you can't compare bikes to motorbikes or any other type of product, its like comparing apples to pears.
I have an Specialized Tarmac Elite which cost me £1,800 in September 2012. This was a great bike and I didn't think you could get much better. Then at the start of this year I had an unexpected windwall (nothing life changing) which I used to pay a chunk off the mortgage, put a chunk towards a new car (which I'm yet to buy). I also had enough left over to buy my dream bike - an S-Works Venge.
Apart from getting the DA9000 and not the Di2 I didn't cut any corners on the bike. This bike x3.5 times more than the Tarmac Elite. When you ride the two bikes you can definitely tell the difference. The gears are smoother, the breaking better. The handling is not comparable and you can definately get 1.5mph of extra speed out of the Venge. Comparing the two bikes is like comparing apples and pears.
Yes, the Venge cost 3.5 times more than the Tarmac but it is definitely worth it. I spend hours each week riding it so when you work out the cost/mile it isn't really that much. If I only rode a few hours every month then it would be harder to justify.
Its easy for people who do not have top of the range bikes to sit and take a stance of negative snobbery. I know I was lucky to get my S-Works but I never begrudge anyone anything they own. I'll never own a Jaguar but I love driving past their factory each day and seeing their cars. Being negative against things you can't afford and/or justify and the people who own them is pointless and uneducated as you have no idea how the top of the range products differ from the more affordable ones used by the masses nor the circumstances of the owner and what pleasure they get from the item or who they came about owning it.0 -
I can't even justify mudguards at the moment....0
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lewiskinch wrote:I can't even justify mudguards at the moment....
I feel your Pain.... although saying that, I'm thinking of marrying BrandonA so we can share his Venge.
Unless you've contacted him first...?
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the bike is better on fuel / mpg and I'm sure I can't lose my license again on my Planet X but I sure could on a GXSR 1000 Kwhatever the no is these days.
money is money spend it on what makes you happy, personally 11k on a push bike is over the top I'd go a max say £5000
less typing more miles please0 -
I can never justify the cost of a new bike, kit or anything thats for me. I get round this by never ever paying RRP or list price. There is always a deal out there and with bikes that retail at the £2k price point regularly in the sales with up to 50% off not sure how anyone can justify the cost of bikes these days unless you are a pro.0
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yes ok0
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Well, I'm glad that most of you were able to discuss this topic w/o attacking me personally for creating the post. Seems that some of you misinterpreted the point of my post and got offended by it. bernithebiker had it right:
Perhaps I should've changed the title of the post from...bernithebiker wrote:How can it be that a complex, high-tech, powerful motorcycle* that has 170kg of 'stuff' in it, is CHEAPER, than a 7kg carbon fibre moulding with some machined alloy bits on it?
*feel free to replace with car, boat, etc.
...to...How Do You Justify the Cost of Your High-End Bike?
I like expensive things, and the intent of this post was not to offend anyone who owns one. I question where manufacturers come up with their price tags. I've been a relatively serious "roadie" for the past 25 years (yikes) and one thing I've noticed is that while you'd occasionally see a ridiculously priced bike back-in-the-day (like when the first Kestrel 4000 frame came out), crazy bike prices are common these days. I literally stopped reading bicycle related magazines and visiting bicycle related web sites because I need to isolate myself from the marketing hype to keep myself from buying all these expensive bikes and components that I really didn't need... and that really didn't do much to make me faster even when I did buy them.How Do Manufacturers Justify the Cost of Their High-End Bikes?
I figure that one of the following three options must explain the crazy high prices that are becoming quite common these days:- Bicycle manufacturers are highly inefficient at producing their products, thus driving-up the costs to ridiculous levels when compared to other industries
- Because bicycles are relatively small, they don't use that much material and thus the economies-of-scale don't apply to bikes as much as they do to other industries, so bicycle manufacturers pay a lot for materials and pass the cost on to the customers.
- There is a huge profit margin in these bikes.
Granted, the high-end Trek Madone that I used as an example is hand-built in Wisconsin where I live and American labor rates are much higher than that of China. Do the labor rates in Wisconsin justify the frame and fork alone being the bulk of the cost of the $11,500 bike? Maybe they do? If that's the case, I'd have to assume that European labor rates must be high as well as there doesn't seem to be an end of high priced European road framesets (See the http://www.wrenchscience.com for a large assortment of drool-worthy, ridiculously priced framesets )
Many of you have stated that I wasn't comparing apples-to-apples when comparing the Trek Madone to the Kawasaki. I wasn't comparing top-end bicycles to top-end motorcycles, I was comparing what ~$11,500 can buy. Either Kawasaki is a much more efficient company than say Trek and they're able to build a complete motorcycle for the price of a bicycle, or Trek is just price gouging. (Note that I'm just using Trek as an example... they're hardly the only ones charging high prices.) Kawasaki, like Trek, has motorcycles for sale for much less than $11,500, which leads me to believe that even the mid-range bicycles are way over-priced.
Regardless of what I think about the prices, manufacturers have the right to charge whatever they want, and as a consumer, I have the right to purchase or not purchase what I want. If I made a bike for $10k+ and someone actually wanted to buy it, well... I'd certainly build another and try and sell that too!0 -
Ricey155 wrote:on a GXSR 1000 Kwhatever the no is these days.
I still have my K1 which I ordered before one had even hit the shores of the country I was living in at the time. I've never wanted to swap it for any subsequent model based purely on nothing more shallow than looks alone.
I often think of changing my 2006 Trek 5.2SL for something newer and blingier, but it still does the job extremely well, and I don't kid myself I'll do any better on a new one. Besides, there is something special about owning a bike you have put a lot of miles on. It is the effort that makes something really special, whether it is effort in earning the money to buy it in the first place, or effort expended out on the road. Anything that comes too easily is rarely truly valued.
Price and cost and value are three totally different things. Trying to equate them is completely meaningless.0 -
PoorInRichfield wrote:
I figure that one of the following three options must explain the crazy high prices that are becoming quite common these days:- Bicycle manufacturers are highly inefficient at producing their products, thus driving-up the costs to ridiculous levels when compared to other industries
- Because bicycles are relatively small, they don't use that much material and thus the economies-of-scale don't apply to bikes as much as they do to other industries, so bicycle manufacturers pay a lot for materials and pass the cost on to the customers.
- There is a huge profit margin in these bikes.
Clearly the third point is correct, but the idea of these bikes is predominantly a sales tool rather than strictly a product line for its own sake.
Bicycle manufacturers are typically highly efficient and economies of scale apply here as much as they do in any other manufacturing industry. That's why I can buy a BSO for less than £100 including taxes and shipping all the way from Taiwan.
Pick up any Newspaper Sunday supplement and there is a good chance you will find an article on the latest super bicycle. People will coo over the description of this 10 grand bike and Monday lunchtime pop to Halfords and throw £500 on the counter. These high end bikes are a marketing tool to drive sales. Don't get too hung up on whether they are value for money.
The car and motorbike industries use the same tools. The Desmosedici was ridden by a few lucky souls, but drove sales of the lesser models for Ducati. Honda had their NR750, RC30 etc etc.0
