Just bought a set of Zipp 303 Firecrest CC--did I do well?

bartersb

In a moment of insanity I ordered a set of 2013 Zipp 303 Firecrest Carbon Clinchers. I saw them at a good price (£1,189 for the set) & well one thing led to another.

At the moment I ride 2012 Mavic Kysrium SL which I love--but then before this I rode Bontrager Race which I wasn't a fan of.

So does anyone have both & can provide me with an idea of what to expect? From what I can gather in terms of weight the Zipps are less than 100g heavier than the Mavics but obviously a heck of a lot more aero.

I will be riding both La Marmotte & Etape next July. Thinking I will stick with the Mavics for La Marmotte but use the Zipps for the Etape as there is a long drag before reaching the Tourmalet.

Bobbinogs

So you spent £1,200 on a set of wheels and are now wondering what they will get you...abuse, goddamit

sloppyschleckonds

I not quite sure what reassurance you are looking for.

napoleond

Expect to get pi55ed off at the rear hub bearing preload. Especially if you get any grit on there.

bartersb

I am not looking for reassurance on my purchase. I was wanting to hear real life experiences of those who have used both e.g. climbing comparison, speed comparison on flat etc.

bartersb

Is this an experience you have had Napoleon?

napoleond

Yes. I sold them as a result. (I had tubs but that's by the by.) I also know of two hub flange failures. That's know of as in people I know, not third hand...
One was in the national TT champs. Very frustrating...
Shocking hubs.
I now have custom built wheels with good quality hubs and I'm much happier.

giant_man

The newer hubs are much better ... the op's 303s will be fine

bartersb

Shocking hubs even for less than £1200 for a set new? I am looking at the price even of Merlin Cycles of a set of the 303 Firecrest & they even with their current 35% off sale are looking £1500.

Perhaps I did not make it clear I have bought the 2013 Zipp 303 Firecrest Carbon Clinchers.

napoleond

Yeah, the 88/188 hubs are crap. Crap for a 500 quid pair of wheels. In fact, they fail, crap for a 150 quid pair of wheels. With Zipp you're paying for aerodynamics R+D and a shed load of marketing. I made that mistake. Expensive doesn't mean no compromise. If you want no compromise get some enve rims built up with CK hubs by a reputable wheel builder. Or some Lightweights.
Maybe find somewhere that will rebuild the wheel with a more reliable hub?
Zipp are painfully aware of the hub issue and make a great song and dance about the new 2014 hubs being more reliable.

thegreatdivide

Some people had a few issues with the old silver pre V8 hubs but the black V8 and V9 hubs are fine. I've been riding my 303 FC tubs for a year now and they've been faultless. Superb wheels.

napoleond

thegreatdivide wrote:

Some people had a few issues with the old silver pre V8 hubs but the black V8 and V9 hubs are fine. I've been riding my 303 FC tubs for a year now and they've been faultless. Superb wheels.

Colin's were until the front hub failed spectacularly

Comparison wise, you'll find the Zipps a hell of a lot faster than the Mavics on the flat. They are rapid. I had pre-firecrest ones. Firecrest are supposed to be even faster and better in crosswinds. Although I never had a crosswind issue with my 404/808 combo. They weren't as stiff as the Mavics but not much is. Again, the firecrests may be stiffer than the ones I had.

imposter2.0

Great idea - buy some Zipps and then get everyone else to agree that it was a good move...

blablablacksheep

its your money people will post abuse just because its the internet lol

Personally i run Kystrum elites on my canyon 2012 and had 1 catastrophic failure of the spoke into hub..canyon service was slowish but very good, wheel got replaced.:)

Im very happy with them, their fast and light, and from about 1 and a bit years of use they have held up well.
Wheels i think are totally personal choice, saying this as i look at wheels for TT bike and 808s look tempting but ridiculous

bartersb

I would have preferred the Enve 3.4 CK wheels.....however at £2500 I couldn't do it. I am getting the Zipps for less than half of that.

Now the other thing that has me worried is rear wheel clearance. Although when I look at Zipps webpage it only calls out clearance issues with the 303 Firecrests on a couple of Specializeds I did turn up someone on another forum saying they could not get them to work on their Scott CR1 (which is what I have, SL 2012 model).

mfin

bartersb wrote:

I would have preferred the Enve 3.4 CK wheels.....however at £2500 I couldn't do it. I am getting the Zipps for less than half of that.

Now the other thing that has me worried is rear wheel clearance. Although when I look at Zipps webpage it only calls out clearance issues with the 303 Firecrests on a couple of Specializeds I did turn up someone on another forum saying they could not get them to work on their Scott CR1 (which is what I have, SL 2012 model).

Is that the CR1 that westbrook were selling cheap?

Edit, I think it is from a quick search... I was actually going to say as a non-aero frame, and that is a very non aero frame having built 2 of them, you can't really be much after aero benefit (as it wasn't a consideration when you bought the frame)? It's a good bike in terms of power-transfer for sure, but a bit like pushing a brick through the air really, seat stays are like air brakes for a start, downtube is big and fat and not aero, fork is not very aero either.

Anyway, not that that matters, you can still get aero improvement from the wheels regardless, but I do think putting aero wheels on it is a bit like bunging a spoiler on a Skoda Yeti in some respects. Maybe you like the way the wheels looks though, so fair enough.

Seeing as you've not just a bike that is non-aero in marketing terms, but one that is chunky, why not send the wheels back and get something serviceable like the wheelsmith ones Nap has for less money? You could spend less AND end up with Chris King hubs for example.

bartersb

I didn't buy the bike from Westbrooks no. It may be the same bike--2012 Scott CR1 Dura Ace, Kysrium SLs etc.

I like the way the wheels look & had assumed that they would provide aero benefit, roll better, smoother etc. I didn't think that the frame & fork were holding me back--I am consistently able to hold 40km+ at the front of the group.

Given the bike I am starting with (although a Cervelo R5 could be coming down the line) do you think that I will notice little benefit over the Kysriums i.e. the wheels aerodynamics will not be sufficient to offset the rest enough to make an appreciable difference?

mfin

I think you'll notice something in terms of aero benefit yes (especially if you ride regularly on the front of a group at the speeds you say). But, I think they aren't the most common sense purchase as slightly less money will get you a serviceable set which you will not tell any real world perceivable difference over the Zipps... unless you don't care about ongoing costs or potential ongoing costs, in which case, it doesn't matter one bit either way.

bartersb

Ongoing costs such as? Are you aware of servicing issues?

I am a big rider--187cm & 80kg so in terms of drag there is a lot for the wind to catch! However, I do put a lot of power down.

Given you have had experience with the frame do you think I could have issues fitting the rear wheel in? I have been doing some googling & have come across a few instance of people saying that the CR1 (more recent geometry) has issues with chain stays being too narrow to accommodate the 303 Firecrest. Given my size and power could I flex the wheel so much that it would clip the frame?

mfin

I didn't pay much attention to rear clearance as both bikes 23mm GP4000s, one on Zondas, one on Ksyrium Elites, neither being wide.

Well, ongoing cost-wise, a CK hub will outlast a Zipp one I would think, and Rim costs for replacing the Zipp rims would be really high compared to the Gigantex ones used by wheelsmith once you've worn out a brake track or damaged a rim... up to you if you offset that against the aero benefit of the Zipps rim vs the less developed Gigantex one.

napoleond

The firecrest 303s reach a max width of over 28mm iirc. The 404 less than this.

neeb

If you have problems with the hubs at any point in the future you could always get the wheels rebuilt on better hubs. Most of what you are paying for is the rims.

thegreatdivide

NapoleonD wrote:

Firecrest are supposed to be even faster and better in crosswinds. Although I never had a crosswind issue with my 404/808 combo. They weren't as stiff as the Mavics but not much is. Again, the firecrests may be stiffer than the ones I had.

If the yaw's right you can noticeably feel the wheels pick up speed. If the wind is coming from a rear angle you feel like you're sailing! The wheels also have a habit of correcting their line when you get hit by a gust - very reassuring.

I'm sure that the deep sections from Enve, Mavic, Easton etc all have their merits but I'm more than happy with my 303 FC purchase :-)

bernithebiker

thegreatdivide wrote:

If the yaw's right you can noticeably feel the wheels pick up speed.

Are you claiming negative drag figures here?!

itsnotarace

bartersb wrote:

Now the other thing that has me worried is rear wheel clearance. Although when I look at Zipps webpage it only calls out clearance issues with the 303 Firecrests on a couple of Specializeds I did turn up someone on another forum saying they could not get them to work on their Scott CR1 (which is what I have, SL 2012 model).

Can confirm they fit just fine

thegreatdivide

itsnotarace wrote:

bartersb wrote:

Now the other thing that has me worried is rear wheel clearance. Although when I look at Zipps webpage it only calls out clearance issues with the 303 Firecrests on a couple of Specializeds I did turn up someone on another forum saying they could not get them to work on their Scott CR1 (which is what I have, SL 2012 model).

Can confirm they fit just fine

That's a fine looking bike!

itsnotarace

Thank you, sir

pkripper

I'd have figured out the answer to these questions before pressing the buy button.

As for me, I'd choose alloy rims for alpine riding.

FransJacques

NapoleonD wrote:

The firecrest 303s reach a max width of over 28mm iirc. The 404 less than this.

404s are ~27mm and 303s are ~25mm - suggests the same shape scaled up a notch.

303s are great wheels, I have a 303/404 combo for RRs & crits which I love. I've had all hub problems others described but it takes 3 mins to sort out yourself per episode. The last time it happened on the rear I over-tightened the hub by a notch to try to 'tease out' any more play but it stabalized there. All good now.

That said the rims and braking are superbe in all conditions. It's true it takes 3-4 revolutions when braking in the rain for the film of water to be squeegeed off . At first you're like "holy crumbs" then the blocks bite.

I'm 82-84 kgs and think the 404 rear is a noodle of a wheel with only 20 spokes. Want to get it re-built 2x both sides to a more stout hub. Not the rim's fault it's the build's fault. DS radial spokes are a sheit idea.

For £1200 a set you did very well!

napoleond

The website says that 303s max width is 28mm, 25mm at the tyre bed and if the frame struggles go for the 404...

ugo.santalucia

FransJacques wrote:

I'm 82-84 kgs and think the 404 rear is a noodle of a wheel with only 20 spokes. Want to get it re-built 2x both sides to a more stout hub. Not the rim's fault it's the build's fault. DS radial spokes are a sheit idea.

Problem is finding a 20 H hub... the 303 have 24 rear, which makes a rebuild a hell of a lot easier. If you DIY send me a PM, I've got a few tips coming from Indianapolis