Merino base layer question

theotherjake

I recently purchased a Rapha long sleeve baselayer as the temp has started to drop this week, but wearing it has actually made me colder as when it soaks up sweat it gets wet and then when moving quickly or into the wind the wet wool feels really cold against my skin.

I just don't get what all the fuss is about regarding merino, to me it just soaks up sweat and then makes you feel cold. Disappointed.

Perhaps you always need to use a windproof layer at the same time? I have been using a ls jersey and gilet.

Any help would be great.

lakesluddite

I have heard this from other forumites, and I think I'll stick to my Aldi base layers. I thought that the merino was supposed to wick away the sweat though, not keep hold of it?

I've a real aversion to wool, even the extra fine merino stuff makes my skin itch (I'm such a sensitive soul).

majormantra

I've been experimenting and I think merino works best as a midlayer. It's not as good at wicking as a good synthetic baselayer but it adds warmth if you layer it on top of one. So for example I might put on:

-synthetic baselayer (e.g. Craft)
-Rapha baselayer
-winter jacket/LS jersey+gilet

The other reason to use merino is that it can be worn multiple times between washes without stinking.

theotherjake

So really the expensive base layer I just purchased is pretty useless as a 'base layer' worn against the skin.

majormantra

Maybe it depends how much you sweat or something. I mean, I find it works against the skin, perhaps just not optimally.

If you aren't happy Rapha have a pretty generous return policy IIRC.

keef66

That's what I've concluded. Merino keeps you warm when wet as long as it's under a windproof outer. It's also resistant to becoming smelly, but it's rubbish at wicking though. My Woolie Boolie socks are a great example; warm feet even before I wring half a pint of water out of the socks. My LS merino base layer I wear when it's really cold and I'm going for a long, steady ride. I'll wear my Windstopper jacket over it. If I'm planning a more vigorous ride, or doing hill repeats I'll use a thinner thermal base layer (M&S ) which really does wick the sweat away.

thegreatdivide

I use a s/s Rapha merino base and as of this winter the l/s winter base for extra neck cover and both do an exemplary job of keeping me warm. Any base layer is going to get sweaty after exertion but unlike synthetics merino dries off quickly. I find that a synthetic base layer just keeps your sweat in and keeps it warm. You then have to try and get said saturated plastic bag off your body at the end of the ride and if not washed after every use it builds up an unmovable reek – unlike merino which stays odour free for weeks at a time.

theotherjake

I find the merino just wicks sweat but then feels really cold against the skin, when heading into the wind. I thought the idea was it keeps you warm no matter what?

cougie

theotherjake wrote:

Perhaps you always need to use a windproof layer at the same time? I have been using a ls jersey and gilet.

Any help would be great.

You're wearing a base layer, then a long sleeve jersey, then a gilet over ? Or using the vest as your LS jersey ?

Either way I'd be thinking a windprof layer is needed this week - its gone quite chilly here.

You might be fine with a windproof over the top - no matter what the base layer is - without the windproof you'll get cool.

theotherjake

Base layer, then ls jersey with windproof gilet over that. I ride fast and do heat up, the merino just got wet and made me cold. Even with a windproof I'd say the merino will still feel cold against the skin.

cougie

All base layers will be wet - I can ride a bike in just a vest and my vest would get wet. Now put a layer or two over that and its impossible for them to wick away moisture without being wet.
I think you're cold due to the chill wind passing through your kit.

Its a tricky time of year with all of the changes - temps are up and down - I've been riding 30 years plus and what to wear is a conundrum at the moment. I prefer proper winter so its always cold and you know what to wear.

Give it another go with a windproof over the top - it'd be odd if it didnt work for you alone ?

alan_sherman

Wool works by staying warm when wet. A bit like a wet suit. Merino is supposed to avoid getting BO / polyester smelly, but gets dead dog smelly instead (the smell of wet wool isn't nice).


I use merino (icebreaker, and used to use a Uniglo rollneck) and it does keep you warm with a thin layer, it does avoid BO smells. If doesn't dry quickly, polyester is much quicker drying. However when wet it retains warmth. I see why people recommend a windstopper layer for on top to avoid wind chill. It has its pros and cons like any other material. it is not the magic answer to everything that some marketing would have you believe!

PS - the dead dog smell can transfer to other items washed in the same washing machine load, so you may be better off hand washing anyway.

keef66

Am I alone in quite liking the damp dog smell of a wet merino layer? I'd rather that than a HH baselayer that smells like a postman's foot after an hour or so.

Greenbeetle

He said dead dog. Damp dog is fine.

Personally I like the idea that I can wash my polyester base layer in the evening and get it dry by the following day. There's no smell as far I'm aware.

diamonddog

Greenbeetle wrote:

Personally I like the idea that I can wash my polyester base layer in the evening and get it dry by the following day. There's no smell as far I'm aware.

^^This plus excellent wicking properties IME.

goonz

i just got on the rapha baselayer bandwagon this week and i am sold. the thing is amazing. Been wearing it under my winter jersey and the combined wool/sportswool layers has been comfortable and warm enough.

Will definitely be adding more soon.

Think for the coldest days will need the long neck BL but merino baselayers are amazing.

theotherjake

goonz wrote:

i just got on the rapha baselayer bandwagon this week and i am sold. the thing is amazing. Been wearing it under my winter jersey and the combined wool/sportswool layers has been comfortable and warm enough.

Will definitely be adding more soon.

Think for the coldest days will need the long neck BL but merino baselayers are amazing.

Did you get a long sleeve or short? Just curious what works best with the winter jersey.

lukea-d

I do a 34km each way commute 2-3 times a week (except when it's icy) and I've found that my polyester Vangard long-sleeved base layer under my Madison Stella winter jacket is sufficient for even the coldest days and I'm not one of these people who doesn't feel the cold off the bike. The baselayer does get wet where it's pushed against my skin by my rucksack and straps, but it dries in my locker by the time I'm ready to ride home. I find similar in spring/autumn with a sleeveless (Lidl/Aldi baselayer), long sleeve jersey and a windproof gilet. So I'm with the 'baselayer with windproof outer' camp.

On a related note Decathlon are doing long-sleeve baselayers for £9.99. I'll start a separate thread asking for any reviews.

goonz

theotherjake wrote:

goonz wrote:

i just got on the rapha baselayer bandwagon this week and i am sold. the thing is amazing. Been wearing it under my winter jersey and the combined wool/sportswool layers has been comfortable and warm enough.

Will definitely be adding more soon.

Think for the coldest days will need the long neck BL but merino baselayers are amazing.

Did you get a long sleeve or short? Just curious what works best with the winter jersey.

Long sleeve but will be getting a short sleeve but closer to spring and perhaps a winter baselayer with the long neck. Just need to sell a kidney first.

FatTed

If your layer over your base layer does not wick well then you will get wet and cold.
I prefer Assos non merino baselayers with merino jersey.

Bozman

FatTed wrote:

If your layer over your base layer does not wick well then you will get wet and cold.
I prefer Assos non merino baselayers with merino jersey.

It's a base layer so you will layer over it.
A base layer should wick the moisture away from the skin, but I'd guess that if you wear something that isn't breathable over the top of the base layer the moisture will have nowhere to go, if it has nowhere to go you'll get cold and wet.

navrig

I wear merino base layers and love them - skiing, running and cycling.

Most base layers will be most effecient when you have protection from the wind. If you dont have a wind cheater layer then effecitvely the wind cuts through the clothing and you get the wind chill effect. This is more pronounced on a wet surface:

Thus, the attempt to maintain a given surface temperature in an environment of faster heat loss results in both the perception of lower temperatures and an actual greater heat loss increasing the risk of adverse effects such as frostbite, hypothermia, and death.[citation needed]

A surface that is wet, such as a person wearing wet clothes, will lose heat quickly as the moisture evaporates and therefore feels colder.[citation needed] Conversely, humid air slows evaporation and makes a surface feel warmer, and this is incorporated into longer wind chill formulas. During warm months, this effect can be described in the heat index or humidex.

Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_chill

ManOfKent

Until the temperature goes down to about 4C I tend to wear just a (synthetic) base layer and a windproof jacket. Below that I add a jersey, two if it's close to freezing. Before I bought the windproof I couldn't ride below about 10C, because I needed so many layers to protect from the wind chill that I'd overheat from the inside.

I've recently bought a merino base layer from Planet X. So far I've worn it only on short runs under a cheap polyester T-shirt and found it very good; I'll try it on the bike soon and expect it to perform equally well.

ju5t1n

10 years ago Cycling Weekly gave a merino base layer made by Howies a 10/10 review – so I bought 2 of them. They’re still going strong today, super warm, as dry as can be expected, and they don’t smell of bo or dead dogs – and I’ve never washed either of them*








*that last bit is a joke btw

cyclingsheep

On really cold days I wear my Craft base layer with a wind proof front. This is awesome for keeping your chest warm but make sure it's cold enough as you can't unzip to cool down.

michael_roadie

In the winter I use Endura's Baabaa merino base layer with a windproof jacket and have never had any problems with wicking or it staying wet. And it doesn't get all smelly.

stueys

Merino wicks very well but if you're wearing a waterproof jacket over a base layer you end up with a very fast wicking base layer meeting a medium wicking level jacket, ultimately the moisture will build up on your base layer and you will probably get cold.

A mid layer over the base layer will give the moisture somewhere to go over than against your skin. Unless it's freezing I tend to wear just a summer jersey with a gillet packed away if I need a bit more warmth.

ju5t1n

As an experiment today - I put a Craft summer vest underneath my merino baselayer, then a LS jersey. Happy to report that it’s a winning combination

theotherjake

I will give that a try tomorrow.

goonz

ju5t1n wrote:

As an experiment today - I put a Craft summer vest underneath my merino baselayer, then a LS jersey. Happy to report that it’s a winning combination

Never thought of that...

Had my rapha baselayer and softshell jacket today and it was perfect.

volociroldster

I wear a wicking poly base layer, a merino sweater (Reiss or Aldi) and over that goes a breathable fleece lined winter cycle jersey. In Winter when i get on the bike i tend to stay on the bike as stopping does cause cool-down and getting back on causes the air flow to chill the sweat in the base layer. It's right to point out that you still build up sweat in merino and that you must wear a breathable outer layer, otherwise you soak from the inside out. It can be more comfortable to not put on a waterproof in a shower as the rain and sweat move more quickly when allowed to breath and evaporate.