Road Racing - Wheels

fleshtuxedo

I'm looking at getting some cheap Chinese carbon tubulars for road & circuit racing as a 4th cat next year. Is that okay or do I need to buy UCI-approved wheels? BC rules not clear unless I'm missing it.
Thanks
Ft

ju5t1n

I think you are supposed to use wheels (and bikes) that comply with UCI Regs – the specs are in Appendix 1 of the BC rule book

- but no-one’s ever checked mine

fleshtuxedo

Thanks, I'm going to assume I can then.
Cheers

celbianchi

Unless your imported wheel is on the list then no you can't. But as referenced above no-one has done an equipment check on my equipment in the last 10 years or so.


1. Principles
1.3.001 Each licence-holder shall ensure that his equipment (bicycle with accessories and other devices fitted, headgear, clothing, etc.) does not, by virtue of its quality, materials or design, constitute any danger to himself or to others. Each licence holder shall ensure that the equipment he uses on the occasion of road, track or cyclo-cross events shall be approved by the UCI according to the specifications of the Approval Protocols in force and available on the UCI Website.
1.3.002 The UCI shall not be liable for any consequences deriving from the choice of the equipment used by licence-holders, nor for any defects it may have or its non-compliance. Equipment used must meet applicable official quality and safety standards. A licence holder is not authorised to modify, in any way, the equipment given by the manufacturer used in competition.

And the UCI reg from 1/1/14

1.3.018 Wheels of the bicycle may vary in diameter between 70 cm maximum and 55 cm
minimum, including the tyre. For the cyclo-cross bicycle the width of the tyre (measured
between the widest parts) shall not exceed 33 mm and it may not incorporate any form of
spike or stud.
For massed start competitions in the disciplines road and cyclo-cross, only wheel designs
granted prior approval by the UCI may be used. Wheels shall have at least 12 spokes;
spokes can be round, flattened or oval, as far as no dimension of their sections exceeds
10 mm. In order to be granted approval wheels must have passed a rupture test as
prescribed by the UCI in a laboratory approved by the UCI. The test results must show that
the rupture characteristics obtained are compatible with those resulting from an impact
sustained during normal use of the wheel. The following criteria must be fulfilled:
· On impact, no element of the wheel may become detached and be expelled outwards.
· The rupture must not present any shattered or broken off elements, or any sharp or
serrated surfaces that could harm the user, other riders and/or third parties.
· The rupture characteristics must not cause the hub to become separated from the rim
in such a way that the wheel becomes detached from the forks.
Without prejudice to the tests imposed by the laws, regulations or customs, standard
(traditional) wheels are exempted from the rupture test referred to above. A traditional
wheel is deemed to be a wheel with at least 16 metal spokes; the spokes may be round,
flat or oval, provided that no dimension of their cross sections exceeds 2.4 mm; the section
of the rim must not exceed 2.5 cm on each side.

bigmat

madasahattersley wrote:

FleshTuxedo wrote:

I'm looking at getting some cheap Chinese carbon tubulars for road & circuit racing as a 4th cat next year. Is that okay or do I need to buy UCI-approved wheels? BC rules not clear unless I'm missing it.
Thanks
Ft

They don't need to be UCI approved unless you're racing at level UCI 1.2 or above, which would be upper amateur/low professional level.

But don't get cheap chinese, pleeeeeeeeeease!!

What's wrong with cheap Chinese carbon tubs? I'm never going to spend £1,000+ on Zipps, but could be tempted by £300 on some of those - would I be wasting my money though? How about Planet X (which I got the impression were Chinese imports with a label on and some right of redress if they go wrong)?

I know a couple of people who ride the Chinese imports and they seem pretty good, unless I'm missing something?

celbianchi

You are missing something. You should not race on them (officially)

bigmat

Wouldn't be bunch racing them probably, mainly for TTs. I know what you mean re no aftersales, although didn't realise Zipp came with free taxi service! I reckon the Planet X could be a decent compromise but to be honest I've got better things to spend my money on at the moment...

amaferanga

Even the Planet Xs will not be stunning. You'll have a much better set of wheel just getting something like Ksyrium S, and by better I also mean better for racing.

Those £300 might get you a very very low end set of tubs, but there's a 50/50 chance (maybe higher?) That you'll end up breaking them beyond repair no matter how careful you are. What happens then? Tough cookie. No warranty, no aftersales, no shop to take them back to, no free return shipping, no nothing. What if you're in the middle of nowhere when they fail and you need to pay £50 for a taxi? What if you're in a bunch and you take down 30 people with you?

This is all based on them just breaking unspectacularly during use though. What if they fail catastrophically and you end up in hospital with a broken neck and can't work for 6 months? Do you think Hong-Chung-Fung-Wan-Liu are going to want to know?

May sound harsh here, but if buying chinese wheels is what tight people do. They are not a long term investment. Get something from a good brand with a good warranty and they will EASILY justify the price and then some. Better still, go to a good wheel builder and get something nice (doesn't have to be carbon) that will outperform the chinese carbon wheels as well as being a safer bet.

What a load of crap.

majormantra

I wouldn't buy nameless carbon clinchers but I can't recall reading about a single dangerous failure of a generic carbon tub rim.

That said, I wouldn't bother unless you like swapping brake pads because riding tubs all the time is a faff (I can hear Paolo fuming already) and the performance gains are totally negligible in the context of 4th cat racing.

mamba80

i bought a set of shimano carbon tubs for way over 1k, my mate bought some chinese carbon tubs, 300 notes.
The Shimano wheels fell to bits after less than 700miles and took months to get any re dress and they cannot be re built in anyway, my mates chinese wheels are still going strong many 1000s of miles later and hubs, rims and spokes can be replaced.

Chinese wheels dont fail any more than a ribble or PX frame does, these are just scare stories, that i believed and wasted my money on a so called "quality" product.

theprawn

i don't own a set of chinese wheels, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with them.

i know plenty of riders who've been using them with great effect, do your research and go with one of the tried and tested companies out there...

decent site here that will help http://www.velobuild.com/

mamba80

i accept that maybe so but your assertion that Chinese wheels fall to bits is also a bit over the top
the wheels couldnt be replaced under warranty as Madison didnt have any - and the dealer didnt want to refund, Madison accepted they were faulty - this is the 2nd pr of DA wheels i ve heard of where the rims went.

Outside of the main makes such as Zipp, Campg, shimano etc almost all the carbon tubs on the market are from factories in China or taiwan, PX wheels are exactly the same, just rebadged with a warranty and generic Novatec hubs - when i get another set, it will be Gigantex on a half decent hub and no weird low spoke counts either, such as shamano use.

amaferanga

madasahattersley wrote:

amaferanga wrote:

What a load of crap.

Glad you like yours

Thanks, I do. What's the view like with your head stuck up your arse?

If you're going to claim all Chinese wheels are crap then at least have some facts to back up your absurd claims.

theprawn

markynulty

Back to the racing wheels ...

I am thinking of getting some Planet X CT45 with Conti Competition tubs for next season. Any views on this set up?

imposter2.0

markynulty wrote:

Back to the racing wheels ...

I am thinking of getting some Planet X CT45 with Conti Competition tubs for next season. Any views on this set up?

Sounds great - that's exactly what I would do if I was in the market for some new race wheels. No need to spend more.

buckles

Poop hubs though and if yer gonna spend £400 on wheels you might as well get tubs IMO

blackhands

Buckles wrote:

Poop hubs though and if yer gonna spend £400 on wheels you might as well get tubs IMO

He means the tub version - otherwise why would he get Conti tubs ??

Whether the wheels are a good choice depends on what they will be used for. - OK for road racing, but ther3 are better choices for short distance time trialling.

As to the tubulars - I can think of 4 manufacturers I would prefer to Continental. I'd go for Vittoria or Veloflex for road racing.

buckles

I can't read, that's why.

markynulty

blackhands wrote:

Buckles wrote:

Poop hubs though and if yer gonna spend £400 on wheels you might as well get tubs IMO

He means the tub version - otherwise why would he get Conti tubs ??

Whether the wheels are a good choice depends on what they will be used for. - OK for road racing, but ther3 are better choices for short distance time trialling.

As to the tubulars - I can think of 4 manufacturers I would prefer to Continental. I'd go for Vittoria or Veloflex for road racing.

They would be used for road racing, crits and then maybe hill climbs at the end of the season (may use fulcrum 3s I have for the hill climbs instead; undecided yet).

I heard that the Vittoria and Veloflex are more supple and cut up easier than the Conti's. I have never run tubs before though, so I am all ears for any recommendations.

markynulty

Well i ordered the CT45s whilst they still had the discount off them. Arrived yesterday and i must say that they are very impressive. Very light, look well made and the hubs are extreamly smooth.

Ordered three vittoria corsa evo cx 23mm tyres from wiggle today as they are also reduced down to £35 each.

Just the swisstop yellows to order now. I have also decided to glue the tubs on as dont fancy trusting tape in crits. Some of those corners are awfully tight lol.

Looks like its all coming together now!

markynulty

Yeh, the Vittoria Mastik is the glue I ordered.

Do the black prince offer better performance or are they kinder to the rim or something?

Cheers

markynulty

madasahattersley wrote:

markynulty wrote:

Yeh, the Vittoria Mastik is the glue I ordered.

Do the black prince offer better performance or are they kinder to the rim or something?

Cheers

They act more like you'd expect an aluminium brake pad to act. The yellows are good, but have a tendency to bite hard when you apply too much pressure, which means you're likely to meet the floor around a corner, particularly in the wet

Thanks for that, that kind of knowledge is exactly why i like this site. Will order some black prince tonight!

Pompey Monkey

markynulty wrote:

I have also decided to glue the tubs on as dont fancy trusting tape in crits. Some of those corners are awfully tight lol.

Tub tape was fine for me in crit races 25 years ago (including the awesome Guildford events!) - I did, however, weigh less than 140lbs at the time.... :shock:

PS: My first post here! Yaaay!

markynulty

I weigh around 190lbs on a good day ;-)

napoleond

I got a set of 80mm tubs when I was TTing from Deng Fu. I only used the front (used a powertap/aerojacket disc rear) it was ace! Sold it when I had my accident.

racingcondor

I glue tubs. From what I hear tape can be a real pain to get off the rim later (not that glue is all that easy).

This helps though http://www.starbike.com/en/schwalbe-tubular-glue-remover/

lawrences

racingcondor wrote:

I glue tubs. From what I hear tape can be a real pain to get off the rim later (not that glue is all that easy).

This helps though http://www.starbike.com/en/schwalbe-tubular-glue-remover/

A bit of acetone and a rag will do the job for less.

racingcondor

Haven't used the glue remover yet so I'll be interested to see if there's a difference.

markynulty

Glued the tyres on tonight. Not as bad as I thought it would be. Cleaned the excess off. Black prince pads should be here tomorrow and if the weather is nice I will take them out for a spin on Sunday. Will be nice to ride the geared bike again after two months of the fixie ;-)

ugo.santalucia

MajorMantra wrote:

That said, I wouldn't bother unless you like swapping brake pads because riding tubs all the time is a faff I can hear Paolo fuming already) and the performance gains are totally negligible in the context of 4th cat racing.

Why?
I agree... cat. 4 racing (for what I have seen) is about tactics and having a good sprint... wheels are irrelevant.

I think a set of Kinlin XR 300 or equivalent clincher are probably the best wheels for the job, a set of hubs with no need for too much sealing (basic Novatec for instance)... the OP can keep it around 200 quid or so. Low mileage, decent roads, no need to spend a lot of money.

Tubulars are either for the "feel" if you are into those things or if the OP wants carbon wheels. The faff is relative, compared to the faff some clinchers are