Cube/DT Swiss Rear Hub Overhaul
OK folks, I'm hoping some one on here can help me. I have a 2012 Cube Agree GTC Pro, I'm sure there are quite a few others on here have the same bike. I'm in the process of doing a full winter service and have decided to give the rear hub some attention.
The wheels roll fine - no problem there - but last year I had a problem where the freehub started slipping. It happened the day before we set off on a 5 day tour through Scotland and since I didn't have a spare wheel, I took it into my LBS who fixed it as best they could. Since then, it has been completely silent when freewheeling and I'm not completely sure about it. Having looked online on DT hub maintenance, it appears important to use the DT grease on the star ratchet - I wonder if the LBS, knowing that I needed my wheel back ASAP, just used some other grease, hence it's now silent.
It also has a bit of 'wobble' as well. I'd just like to get it open and give it an overhaul and since I now have a winter bike and a spare rear wheel, I'm more keen to do it myself.
The thing is, I can't get the thing apart, and I can't find any documentation/diagrams of the hub. It's a Cube branded, DT Swiss hub (CSW RA 1.0 Race). I contacted DT Swiss, they say as it's OEM to contact Cube who say to go to my local Cube dealer (I don't have one really).
Everything I can find about DT Swiss freehubs points to them being a piece of piss to service - they should just pop off without any tools. It seems this one seems to be different though - though would love to be proved wrong. My guess is that the freehub won't move without removing the axle. On both ends there is a locknut - I tried to loosen the driveside one, but the non-drive side one loosened first of course, which allowed me to remove the dustcap but means I can't get the driveside nut untightened. No 5mm hex slot in end of the axle like the Novatec hub I just replaced the freehub in.
Part of me thinks I should knock the axle out from the non-driveside and that would take the freehub out (along with one of the bearings, part of me thinks that would be a silly idea that wouldn't help.
I'm hoping someone on here has some experience of this wheelset and can shed some light, or someone who knows wheels/hubs can provide some their expertise???
The wheels roll fine - no problem there - but last year I had a problem where the freehub started slipping. It happened the day before we set off on a 5 day tour through Scotland and since I didn't have a spare wheel, I took it into my LBS who fixed it as best they could. Since then, it has been completely silent when freewheeling and I'm not completely sure about it. Having looked online on DT hub maintenance, it appears important to use the DT grease on the star ratchet - I wonder if the LBS, knowing that I needed my wheel back ASAP, just used some other grease, hence it's now silent.
It also has a bit of 'wobble' as well. I'd just like to get it open and give it an overhaul and since I now have a winter bike and a spare rear wheel, I'm more keen to do it myself.
The thing is, I can't get the thing apart, and I can't find any documentation/diagrams of the hub. It's a Cube branded, DT Swiss hub (CSW RA 1.0 Race). I contacted DT Swiss, they say as it's OEM to contact Cube who say to go to my local Cube dealer (I don't have one really).
Everything I can find about DT Swiss freehubs points to them being a piece of piss to service - they should just pop off without any tools. It seems this one seems to be different though - though would love to be proved wrong. My guess is that the freehub won't move without removing the axle. On both ends there is a locknut - I tried to loosen the driveside one, but the non-drive side one loosened first of course, which allowed me to remove the dustcap but means I can't get the driveside nut untightened. No 5mm hex slot in end of the axle like the Novatec hub I just replaced the freehub in.
Part of me thinks I should knock the axle out from the non-driveside and that would take the freehub out (along with one of the bearings, part of me thinks that would be a silly idea that wouldn't help.
I'm hoping someone on here has some experience of this wheelset and can shed some light, or someone who knows wheels/hubs can provide some their expertise???
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If it's the hub I'm thinking of it goes together like any basic Shimano type cup and cone hub and has nothing in common with the higher end DT star ratchet hubs (which are cartridge bearing in any case). If that's the case, to remove the freehub:
-remove NDS locknut, any washers and cone
-remove axle (don't lose the balls!)
-remove freehub by loosening freehub fixing bolt which needs a 10/11/12mm allen key.0 -
If you have locknut's on either side of the axle, it sounds like you have an Onyx style hub rather than a Hugi (Star-Ratchet) hub. You can google for the Onyx/Cerit service manual which will bring you to this: https://www.dtswiss.com/Resources/Support/HUBS/DT-Swiss-Hubs-Onyx,-Cerit-Technical-Manual
Sounds like you need an axle vise (or to VERY lightly clamp the axle in a vise) to hold the axle while you undo the drive-side locknut.
Be careful when you remove the freehub as there is a needle bearing in the base of the hub, and the little cylinders can fall out and get lost.
DT Swiss grease is nice, but in all honesty - non essential. If the pawls are still engaging and the freehub works as it should, the lack of sound might just be because they've used a thicker grease. Again, as long as the pawls are doing their job, I wouldn't be too worried.0 -
You r hubs are not "DT Swiss" hubs as such, just rebadged components, so the DT swiss manual does not apply.
First thing to assess is if they are cone/balls bearings (cone spanners) or sealed cartridges (allen key slots)...left the forum March 20230 -
Thanks for the responses - TheRealGuybrush is indeed the Real Guy when it comes to hub knowledge in this instance!
I went out tonight just to take some some pics to post to see if that would help, but I took your advice about sticking it in the vice to try and get it loose and it worked. It appears to be the same set up as the Onyx-style hub you mentioned. In fact, after further searching, it looks quite a lot like the 370 hub in this document...
http://www.dtswiss.com/Resources/Suppor ... cal-Manual
I also found this, for £7 I think it might be worth it...
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/dt-s ... -prod81209
Here's the hub (pics not great)
Here's the insides. Looks a bit manky in there but nothing too bad I don't think.
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One other thing - I mentioned that the freehub had a bit of "wobble". There certainly is a bit of play in the bearing that is mounted at the top of the freehub body. There is nothing in the document I posted to suggest this can be replaced - would it be worth replacing, or would I need a new freehub body?
How much wobble is too much? Half the reason for me stripping the bike down fully this year is because I've been having some minor shifting niggles - I just wonder if that could be it.0 -
The quality of the bearing in the freehub shouldn't have too much effect on shifting, you may just have an issue with cable tension or derailleur alignment.
Have a feel of the bearing in the freehub and check for notchy-ness and/or a rough feeling. You usually need to remove a snap-ring from the outside of the freehub (which is sometimes hidden under a plastic/rubber washer) and then drift the bearing out and replace with what I remember to be a 6001 bearing? It will almost certainly say the size on the rubber seal of the bearing.
It it doesn't feel rough, then just re-assemble after a good clean. If it is rough, chances are some of the other bearings need replacing which can be a tricky job and one you may want to take to an LBS - although the drive-side freehub bearings usually go before anything else.
With regards to the service kit you linked to - that will work on your hub, and replacing the pawl spring for a new one may help to bring back the click of the freehub if your current spring has fatigued.
With regards to wobble, you always get a small amount of play with most systems. If it feels like it's too much, take a look at the rubber seal on the base of the freehub. You could try replacing that which might help - although I didn't see one available on ChainReaction.
Anything else, just ask.0 -
Ah, definitely not the hub I was thinking of.0
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TheRealGuybrush wrote:The quality of the bearing in the freehub shouldn't have too much effect on shifting, you may just have an issue with cable tension or derailleur alignment.
Yeah, been there with the cable tension etc, I'm just clutching at straws that it's not a new rear mech I need! Either that or I am just being picky - I want it to shift like the day I bought it!TheRealGuybrush wrote:Have a feel of the bearing in the freehub and check for notchy-ness and/or a rough feeling. You usually need to remove a snap-ring from the outside of the freehub (which is sometimes hidden under a plastic/rubber washer) and then drift the bearing out and replace with what I remember to be a 6001 bearing? It will almost certainly say the size on the rubber seal of the bearing.
It it doesn't feel rough, then just re-assemble after a good clean. If it is rough, chances are some of the other bearings need replacing which can be a tricky job and one you may want to take to an LBS - although the drive-side freehub bearings usually go before anything else.
It's a bit rough - probably not too bad, but the axle feels smooth. There is a noticeable amount of play so I am just going to replace it anyway for all a 6001 bearing costs.
The seal you mentioned is also full of grit that is being a bit stubborn against my efforts of shifting it and I don't want to scrub it too hard in case I snap/stretch it so I might try and find a replacement for it as well (though struggling to find the part number).
I've ordered the service kit and bearing, and have given it all a very good clean - I take back what I said about it not being that bad - it was full of gritty gunk - now that I have done this, I'm going to make a habit of cleaning it up every 6 months or so.
Fingers crossed it feels and sounds like a new freehub. I'll update with results.TheRealGuybrush wrote:Anything else, just ask.
Great, thank you very much for your help, bang on the money - the internet is braw!MajorMantra wrote:Ah, definitely not the hub I was thinking of.
No, but thanks for the input anyway!
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mcjimbob wrote:The seal you mentioned is also full of grit that is being a bit stubborn against my efforts of shifting it and I don't want to scrub it too hard in case I snap/stretch it so I might try and find a replacement for it as well (though struggling to find the part number).
The seal can be found here: http://www.petracycles.co.uk/dt-swiss-seal-for-onyx-freehub-body-and-hub-shell-p-10312.html or you can google: HBDT876 which is the part number for it from Madison (the UK distributor for DT Swiss) and plenty of results come up.
It's not guaranteed to solve it but for £3.5-ish it's worth a go?
Remember, when you push the new bearing in, use the old one over the top as a drift.0 -
OK, I drifted out the bearing, and luckily lined it up with a 6001 I had spare before replacing it. I noticed that the bearing in the freehub has an internal diameter slightly smaller than the standard 6001. Indeed the internal ring is marked 10 - despite be marked "6001LS" on the seal, it appears to have an internal diameter of 10mm as opposed to the 12mm specified by the 6001. Very strange.
So I did a bit of searching and came up with this...
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic ... conversion
It seems it's actually a 16100 bearing I need. So will need to order one of those!
DT Swiss being tricky tricksters it seems.0
