I want to build some wheels

on-yer-bike

Was going to do this ages ago but havent had the time. Anyway my wife has started cycling and she needs a pair of wheels so I thought Id build them over Christmas. I want them to be light as she is only around 50 kg. I would prefer a lower profile rim than Archetype but that may need more spokes. Is building 20/24 more difficult than 24/28 or easier? I was thinking Novatech hubs although Miche sound like a possibility.

ugo.santalucia

Get her a set of Velocity Aerohead... same depth as Open PRO and A 23, but much lighter... lovely rims. Get her 20/24

on-yer-bike

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Get her a set of Velocity Aerohead... same depth as Open PRO and A 23, but much lighter... lovely rims. Get her 20/24

what hubs and spokes would go best with these? small or large flange etc. They have to have a Campag free hub and be black. Competition on the rear and Revolution on the front?
Thanks

ugo.santalucia

Look, my friends Steve and John at Sdeals.com have a wide range of Novatec available, for a sunny days light rider even the 291/582 combo is a good one

http://www.sdeals.com/oscommerce/index. ... jgkajtu8s5

Dt revs are not easy to use if it's your first build... easier to get some Sapim CX Ray and an aero spoke holder, pricier but if you only need 20, you might get a deal on a box of 20

cycleclinic

Or use the Kinlin XR-200 even ligter and I have built the 24H/24H rims front and rear on novatec hubs before for 50kg riders with no reported issues. The rim is as stiff as an aerohead. I have used the aerohead a few times and I am not a fan I found them fiddley, the one's I had a bit of a bump and very small changes in tension trough the wheel out. Eventually I got them to settle down but it was fiddley.

I probably have the CX-rays and I have several spoke holders. However I do not think Lasers are particulaly difficult to build with but then again I use them all the time. Also if you alloy nipples with thin Laser/rev spokes then wind up isues disapear at least that is what I find.

term1te

For a first wheel build I'd be tempted to go for a winter training set. Something solid like a Mavic CPX22 rims on a 105 or Tiagra hubs with DT Competition spokes. I'd also go for more spokes than she will need, the reason being it is easier to true a wheel with more, lower tennsion, spokes than fewer higer tension ones. For a first wheel build it is probably better to come out of it with a decent set of wheels where you had a greater margin for error, than a really lightweight set, which aren't properly trued and fall out of tension regularly.

As you need a Campagnolo freehub, Novatec is a good place to start. I've made several sets on their A291SB/F482SB and the lighter SL varient, with no problems. I haven't had the problems some have with the bearings, I must have riden in excess of 10,000km on one set over the last 4 years, and they are still as smooth as ever, must be fortunate.

Also, get a Park tool TM1 spoke tension guage, it really will make your life so much easier.

Once you've got a decent winter set, plan something lighter/more aero, etc. for the summer.

cycleclinic

I also have had good luck with A291/F482 but others don't but those that don't seem to use them when it is very wet.

Spoke tension is not dependent on spoke count. A low spoke wheel is tensioned tha same as a high spoke wheel. 900-1000N on the front 1200N DS rear (lower if the rim you are using a lower max tension limit).

on-yer-bike

Roger Musson doesnt seem to cover 20 spoke builds. Im now thinking 24/24 or 24/28. I assumed, for some reason that 20 spokes would always be radial.

ugo.santalucia

on-yer-bike wrote:

Roger Musson doesnt seem to cover 20 spoke builds. Im now thinking 24/24 or 24/28. I assumed, for some reason that 20 spokes would always be radial.

You can build a 20 at 2x cross, but most likely it will be radial... nothing wrong with either... easy peasy...

on-yer-bike

The hub has to be OK for radial apparently. I dont know about A291SB. Is the Edd spoke calculator reliable?
http://leonard.io/edd/

ugo.santalucia

on-yer-bike wrote:

The hub has to be OK for radial apparently. I dont know about A291SB. Is the Edd spoke calculator reliable?
http://leonard.io/edd/

Any 20H hub is compatible with radial build.
Calculators are all the same, I use the DT Swiss one on their website, if you send me the final rim + hubs you go for, I can give you the best size available and the nipple size that works best

Monty Dog

I built a pair of Aeroheads radial with bladed spokes a few years ago - boy did they fly in comparison to a regular shallow rim or a Ksyrium - I sold them with a TT bike and regretted it since.

If you're using alloy nipples and riding in all conditions, suggest you coat them in ACF50 corrosion inhibiter - I've had problems with corrosion stress cracking of alloy nipples and I only weigh 60kg.

term1te

thecycleclinic wrote:

Spoke tension is not dependent on spoke count. A low spoke wheel is tensioned tha same as a high spoke wheel. 900-1000N on the front 1200N DS rear (lower if the rim you are using a lower max tension limit).

All the lower spoke count wheels I've come across have appeared to have higher spoke tension than the 36 and 32 spoke wheels I've used over the years. Genuine question, is this due to more recent rims and hubs being able to take the extra tension, and a belief that higher tension will deliver a stiffer wheel (rightly or wrongly), so just the recent fad. Or to maintain the strength and "stiffness" of a wheel with lower spoke count, the tension of each spoke needs to be higher?

The spoke tension on my old 36 spoke 4 cross wheels from the 80s feels much lower than recent 24 spoke 2 cross wheels. I'll get the tension meter out this evening, the 36er has plane guage spokes, compared with DT revolutions, which may explain the need for the difference?

huuregeil

@Term1te - It's not that you have to increase the tension with low spoke count wheels, rather you can (safely) reduce the tension on higher spoke count wheels, which may help durability with some rims. Spoke tension, assuming you never detension a spoke, doesn't affect stiffness - it has an impact on durability though.

@on-yer-bike. I'd make your life easy and go super classic, 32h, regular db spokes, nice rim (ambrosio excellight, dt415/465) on a decent pair of hubs (lots available in 32h). If your other half is only starting riding, then a low-spoke count wheel is overkill; a build like this always makes a great training or general-use wheel. The big bonus of something like this is that it's easier to build for someone just starting out. High-quality rim + higher spoke counts + brass nipples + fatter spokes == easier build. Have fun!

PS As above, going to a higher spoke count wheel means you don't need to be as precise about tensions, so don't worry about a tension meter for now, just go with Musson's advice, you'll end up with a great set of wheels. Which is exactly how I started building wheels!

indyp

I have just completed my first wheel build and it was pretty straight forward. I used Novatec hubs 711/712 32h, DT comp spokes and Archetype rims, and they worked really well. I did buy a tension meter which I found very useful, although I quite enjoyed using spoke tone and had similar results. I also got myself a portable dishing tool just to be on the safe side and I used it loads. I took my time and along the way asked advice from someone on BR who knows his onions. It's great fun to do

ugo.santalucia

indyP wrote:

I have just completed my first wheel build and it was pretty straight forward. I used Novatec hubs 711/712 32h, DT comp spokes and Archetype rims, and they worked really well. I did buy a tension meter which I found very useful, although I quite enjoyed using spoke tone and had similar results. I also got myself a portable dishing tool just to be on the safe side and I used it loads. I took my time and along the way asked advice from someone on BR who knows his onions. It's great fun to do

How do they ride?

indyp

ugo.santalucia wrote:

indyP wrote:

I have just completed my first wheel build and it was pretty straight forward. I used Novatec hubs 711/712 32h, DT comp spokes and Archetype rims, and they worked really well. I did buy a tension meter which I found very useful, although I quite enjoyed using spoke tone and had similar results. I also got myself a portable dishing tool just to be on the safe side and I used it loads. I took my time and along the way asked advice from someone on BR who knows his onions. It's great fun to do

How do they ride?

I should be able to let you know very soon! I'm just waiting on a few bits to complete bike build and then I'll be out on it. I've put Conti GP 28mm tyres on the wheels and they look great and should give enough grip throughout the winter.