FRED WHITON 2014 - gear ratio for hills

julesdud

Bonjour, I'm new here so please go easy on me.

I have signed up for the Wiggle Dragon Ride (gran Fondo) and hopefully when entry opens I will sign up for the Fred Whiton.

Now comes the technical bit. Hill climbing, can anyone tell me what gear ratios I will need to complete these rides?

I currently own a Merida Race Lite 904 with the following on it --

CHAINWHEEL Shimano R565 50-34

And

FREEWHEEL Shimano CS-4600-10 12-28

I am a 31yr old male, weighing 13st.

Like I said, I am new to this so be gentle with me.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

rolf_f

Hmmmm, if you don't know what gear ratios you need for the Fred Whitton then you probably aren't ready for the Fred Whitton!

I did it a few years ago. I'm a good climber. As I walked up Hardknott, my 34-29 having not been low enough to keep me in the saddle, I saw plenty of folk pushing standard 39 - somethings. They were barely moving faster than me but they were still on their bikes. What gearing you need depends on you. But I'd say that unless you have experienced some of the main climbs on the Fred already, it probably isn't wise to have a go at the Fred unless you really know your ability - it's one thing to be able to get up something like Hardknott when reasonably fresh but it is something else entirely to do it after 100 miles of Kirkstone pass, Honister pass, Newlands pass, Whinlatter pass, Cold Fell and one or two more not insignificant others possibly in terrible weather conditions. It's not that I'm saying you couldn't do it - just that it might not be much fun.

But otherwise, 34-28 is possible but if you can set up something close to 1:1 ratio you'll probably thank yourself on the day.

Pepperoni Man

Can't give any advice but that Fred Whiton looks like something devised by the Gestapo!!! You can tell I do my riding on the Somerset Levels!!

julesdud

Thanks for your reply Rolf F. I have been cycling for over 2yrs. Been cycling the Trough of Bowland during that time. Just don't know a lot about the make up of the bike. Just wanted advice off people who had done the Whiton

Jim C

I used a triple last year, 30 26 lowest, and managed to ride all of it, which was my aim. Id have put a 28 on the back, but that would have meant spending money, so I used what I had

kajjal

Pepperoni Man wrote:

Can't give any advice but that Fred Whiton looks like something devised by the Gestapo!!! You can tell I do my riding on the Somerset Levels!!

Its a brave rider trying that one out. Hats off to anyone who does it without walking up the steepest bits. Hardknott is bad enough in a car :shock:

One way of getting up very steep hills on a compact is to fit a mountain bike rear mech and cassette. These go up to 11-36 which would give you a better than 1:1 ratio. Just make sure it fits and is compatible first.

rolf_f

julesdud wrote:

Thanks for your reply Rolf F. I have been cycling for over 2yrs. Been cycling the Trough of Bowland during that time. Just don't know a lot about the make up of the bike. Just wanted advice off people who had done the Whiton

To be fair, Bowland is pretty evil. I did a sportive in Pendle the same year I did the Fred. Same distance, almost same average speed. Says it all really. But then I find lots of little climbs harder than a small number of big ones. Go up to Broughton in Furness and do a loop up to Eskdale, over Hardknott and Wrynose to Coniston and back. It will give you a feel for what you need.

It isn't so much about what gears you need but simply the state you are likely to be in when you reach Hardknott.

Brakeless

I've done 'The Fred' four times as the event and once as a day out. I've always used 34/28. The key to Hardknott for me is just to ignore speed completely and turn the pedals just enough to keep momentum. There's a really steep bit at the bottom that's hard but it's then lees steep for a fair way. If you can 'recover' to some extent on this section by going slowly you may then have enough left for the steep left hand turn towards the top. Every time I've done it I've had people overtake me on the middle section but then get off and walk on the top steep bit where I've then past them.
I'm sure there's fitter guys with different approaches but this has always worked for me.

lakesluddite

I'm going to apply for next year - it's about time, as I live in Cumbria so can't avoid it all my life.

If successful, I'll be in for a compact chainset to go with an 11-28 cassette - there's no way I'd attempt it with a standard 53/39 that I have now.

nammynake

I've done the Fred Whitton ride the last two years, both times on 34-27 as my lowest gear. That was fine for most of the climbs, the exceptions being Honister, Wrynose and Hardknott. I'm reasonably light and prefer spinning low gears but I just about managed with 34-27. Probably not much faster than walking but I was determined not to walk any of them.

34-28 will be OK assuming you put in the hours training.

Good luck if you get a place!

pilot_pete

I did it aged 45, weighing 13.5 stone on a 34/25 lowest gear. Nowhere near low enough but I didn't walk at any point. However, on the steepest bits I was literally just pushing all my weight through each pedal whilst pulling up on the bars! Not pretty, but I just about kept going....!

PP

rolf_f

Pilot Pete wrote:

I did it aged 45, weighing 13.5 stone on a 34/25 lowest gear. Nowhere near low enough but I didn't walk at any point. However, on the steepest bits I was literally just pushing all my weight through each pedal whilst pulling up on the bars! Not pretty, but I just about kept going....!PP

My problem was that I don't have any of that to push!

littledove44

Kajjal wrote:

Pepperoni Man wrote:

Can't give any advice but that Fred Whiton looks like something devised by the Gestapo!!! You can tell I do my riding on the Somerset Levels!!

Its a brave rider trying that one out. Hats off to anyone who does it without walking up the steepest bits. Hardknott is bad enough in a car :shock:

One way of getting up very steep hills on a compact is to fit a mountain bike rear mech and cassette. These go up to 11-36 which would give you a better than 1:1 ratio. Just make sure it fits and is compatible first.

That's what is did. Shimano 50/34 and swapped the rear to 11/34. No change to the mech, just a chain alteration. Easy and cheap.

I have no experience of the Fred Whiton, but getting a 1:1 ratio is so easy that if you think you might need it you might as well.

robklancs

If you ride in bowland , try this, if you haven't already, hopefully it might prepare you for things to come.

Ride to wray
Go up school lane which will take you over dick hill (30% apparently but very short)
This will lead to the bottom of roeburndale, bad road surface, narrow, very steep up to 25% with long drags.
Ride up it
Go down hill all the way to caton, turn around and then ride right back up, a long hill 5-10%
Turn back around and ride half way down, turn left to have a go at littledale
Go up and over, and turn left at rigg lane.
Turn left at the cross roads and do jubilee towers.
This might or might not be as hard as the hills on the Fred but it will give a wide variety of climbs with some steep gradients.
I ride in bowland and plan on entering my first Fred whitton this year. I will be trying this route.

a.r.green

You've got a 34/28 as your bottom gear, that should see you up the north face of the Eiger!

Although as others have said the toughest climbs are at the end of the Fred Whitton - and they are bloody tough!

I've got round on a 34/25, but that does involve really struggling up the last few hills, but I'm 6'4" and really not built for Lake District hills!

markhewitt1978

You could swap the Tiagra 12-28 for a Tiagra 12-30, which will give you a little bit lower gear for a cheap price.

Bobbinogs

The problem on really steep climbs is usually about technique, weight distribution and controlling power, specially for lighter riders. Sometimes on a 20/25% climb I choose a bigger gear to reduce the torque or risk loss of traction, which can be unnerving if one is crouched right over the handlebars (I naturally prefer to stand). Others overcome weight distribution by staying seated but that is easier said than done when the road rears up in front of you.

learning to control the bike at low speeds is important, as is the confidence to stay on a bike at 5mph on a steep apex...and the control to still be able to swerve around an unexpected pothole or stone.

Hence, practice practice practice. Find out what suits you and helps you control the bike whilst keeping the effort sustainable. Gearing is just one aspect of climbing and it isn't always the most important one.

MartAstur

markhewitt1978 wrote:

You could swap the Tiagra 12-28 for a Tiagra 12-30, which will give you a little bit lower gear for a cheap price.

I would do this. Cost shouldn't be more than 30 pounds fitted and you shouldn't need to change the chain or anything. People are right when they talk about technique being important but if you are fairly new to cycling the easier the gear the better. Ignore the people that say you can get up anything on a 25 because they have either never really ridden a tough, sustained climb or they are super fit and experienced and find it hard to realise that there are those of us who simply haven't got what it takes to do it on a 34/25.
Good luck on the ride and don't worry about it, just enjoy it.
M

marcusjb

I'd agree with Bobbinogs about technique on the really steep stuff. Staying seated (if you have low enough gearing) works well for most, until a certain point where the bike may well start lifting at the front end. Standing on the steep stuff makes sense - but you'll be right over the front wheel and it really does take practice. It is difficult to do and still feel totally in control of the bike.

Weather and road conditions plays an important part of ascending techniques - wet, slippery roads may well push you back into the saddle to maintain some grip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiZWD7T1HuM

See the above video from about 12 minutes in - a friend, Ian, showing great technique up Hardknott (especially as we had 500km in our legs by this point).

Bobbinogs

marcusjb wrote:

...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiZWD7T1HuM

See the above video from about 12 minutes in - a friend, Ian, showing great technique up Hardknott (especially as we had 500km in our legs by this point).

Fantastic vid there Marcus. That chap was not climbing, he was dancing...and very hypnotic it was too. 600km with those climbs, respect is due!

marcusjb

He did make it look pretty easily with so many miles in the legs. Luckily for me, Damon (the chap that made the film) wasn't filming when I did the climb - I didn't look quite so elegant!

willbevan

The most difficult thing I found was actually avoiding other riders, there were so many riders zig zaging up the climbs were more of an obstacle.

It is also important not to over cook yourself on the sections between the climbs, quite a few groups flew past me on the flat near just before the climbs and I pass them on the climbs as they were zigging or walking. Especially important as you get close to the last two Hardknott.

As for gearing, I had a triple on 50/39/30 and a 11-28 but actually didn't use lower than 30/25 which is about the same as a 34/28. Low gear yes, but I was spinning fast up the climbs keeping a good pace compared to the guys grunting on a 39 almost coming to a stop with each stroke as they were simply over geared (imho)

julesdud

MartAstur wrote:

markhewitt1978 wrote:

You could swap the Tiagra 12-28 for a Tiagra 12-30, which will give you a little bit lower gear for a cheap price.

I would do this. Cost shouldn't be more than 30 pounds fitted and you shouldn't need to change the chain or anything. People are right when they talk about technique being important but if you are fairly new to cycling the easier the gear the better. Ignore the people that say you can get up anything on a 25 because they have either never really ridden a tough, sustained climb or they are super fit and experienced and find it hard to realise that there are those of us who simply haven't got what it takes to do it on a 34/25.
Good luck on the ride and don't worry about it, just enjoy it.
M

Great advice. Thanks for all of your comments. Greatly appreciated.

julesdud

Bobbinogs wrote:

The problem on really steep climbs is usually about technique, weight distribution and controlling power, specially for lighter riders. Sometimes on a 20/25% climb I choose a bigger gear to reduce the torque or risk loss of traction, which can be unnerving if one is crouched right over the handlebars (I naturally prefer to stand). Others overcome weight distribution by staying seated but that is easier said than done when the road rears up in front of you.

learning to control the bike at low speeds is important, as is the confidence to stay on a bike at 5mph on a steep apex...and the control to still be able to swerve around an unexpected pothole or stone.

Hence, practice practice practice. Find out what suits you and helps you control the bike whilst keeping the effort sustainable. Gearing is just one aspect of climbing and it isn't always the most important one.

More great advice. Think your right. Will be all about putting the miles in and practice, practice, practice. I have hit Birdy Brow and Waddington Fell this week amongst others. Gonna try and hit Jeffrey Hill and Rammy Rake this week.

johnny25

My advice would be to get the route of either race, take your bike and have a go at the hills. That's the only way for sure you'll know if you can climb the hills with your current set up/fitness level.

I try not to enter any demanding sportives without at least attempting some of the tougher climbs beforehand. It might not be practicable but certainly worth if if you can.

If you can't, find some comparable hills locally and tackle those. Then you can think about altering your gearing etc.

Like anything, the more you practice the easier it will become!

Mikey23

@pm... Plus one for the Somerset levels

mididoctors

Bobbinogs wrote:

marcusjb wrote:

...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiZWD7T1HuM

See the above video from about 12 minutes in - a friend, Ian, showing great technique up Hardknott (especially as we had 500km in our legs by this point).

Fantastic vid there Marcus. That chap was not climbing, he was dancing...and very hypnotic it was too. 600km with those climbs, respect is due!

I have seen riders blast up hardknott (relatively speaking) but that is impressive for a 600k audax

mididoctors

johnny25 wrote:

My advice would be to get the route of either race, take your bike and have a go at the hills. That's the only way for sure you'll know if you can climb the hills with your current set up/fitness level.

I try not to enter any demanding sportives without at least attempting some of the tougher climbs beforehand. It might not be practicable but certainly worth if if you can.

If you can't, find some comparable hills locally and tackle those. Then you can think about altering your gearing etc.

Like anything, the more you practice the easier it will become!

ride to exmoor its not that far., dunkery beacon is a good analog