Mystery ticking/creaking from front wheel

arlowood

Recently "winterized" my bike by fitting SKS Bluemels and switching the 23mm Vittoria Rubino Pro's for 25mm Conti GP 4000s tyres.

Over the past few rides I have noticed a rhythmic ticking/creaking sound emanating from the front wheel. It is definitely the wheel as the noise persists when I'm freewheeling.

Did a bit more investigative work today and the results of that are as follows:-

Noise appears to happen only at 2 distinct points about 180 deg opposed to each other (one of the ticks/creaks is louder than the other).

Noise only occurs when I'm riding or when I apply weight to the front wheel by leaning over the bars and walking forward.

Difficult to describe the noise but it sounds closest to the creaking you get from old bed springs but of a short
duration.

Switched the front tyre back to the Rubino Pro and the noise was gone?? Fitted the 25mm Conti and it was back again tho' not quite as loud/obvious as before.

On the bike stand the wheel runs true and spins "for ever" so the bearings are still good and unlikely to be at fault.

Spokes are 2 cross laced and all seem to be tensioned well although I did find that at a couple of places around the wheel I could pinch the spokes at the 2nd crossing point and get a slight creak/ ping in the process as they rubbed together.

So my thoughts are:- Are the 25mm tyres exerting extra stresses on the spokes to cause this? Is it possible that the larger tyres are producing stresses at the nipple/eyelet junction to produce the noise? Can the nipple /eyelet junctions be lubricated safely and if so what with?

Any thoughts as to cause and cure welcomed.

BTW the wheels are a set of handbuilts courtesy of Ugo. The front has a Novatec 141 hub with 28 DT spokes, 2 x cross laced on a Mavic Open Pro rim

ugo.santalucia

If I remember correctly these are about 18 months old... the bearings are probably due for replacement... I don't think anything spoke related can give you a ticking sound.
The only spokes that rub and tick are these
http://paolocoppo.drupalgardens.com/con ... ing-spokes

Otherwise could be the tube valve... if it's threaded, try to fit one of those rings to it and see if it disappears

... or the dreaded cruds... they always rub somewhere...

arlowood

ugo.santalucia wrote:

If I remember correctly these are about 18 months old... the bearings are probably due for replacement... I don't think anything spoke related can give you a ticking sound.
The only spokes that rub and tick are these
http://paolocoppo.drupalgardens.com/con ... ing-spokes

Otherwise could be the tube valve... if it's threaded, try to fit one of those rings to it and see if it disappears

... or the dreaded cruds... they always rub somewhere...

Ugo

I did originally suspect the bearings but they still feel very smooth when the front spindle is turned by hand and the wheel also spins for ages on the workstand with only a slight impetus to the wheel rim. My thoughts were that if they had degraded to the point of creaking then I would be able to see other obvious consequences in feel and spinning capability.

Also it doesn't really explain why the noise disappeared when I re-fitted the 23mm Rubino tyre

FYI the inner tubes are size rated 18-25 so are approaching their limit when the Contis are fitted. Would this imply extra stresses on the rim as a consequence. I am running the front at 95psi with the 25mm tyres and the rear at 100psi.

Will check out your suggestion with the valve stem - it is threaded but I don't have the small retaining ring fitted ATM. Will try fitting that to see if anything changes.

The guards are SKS Bluemels Road and are not rubbing as far as I can see but will examine this possibility again more closely.

ugo.santalucia

If the 25 makes the noise and the 23 doesn't, I would think the tyre does rub against the SKS... they are not very stiff mudguards...
I hate mudguards, they are just a waste of space that can be used to fit bigger tyres for winter

robbo2011

Each to their own, but in the winter, i don't like getting wet, cold and covered in shit! Mudguards for me all the way in winter.

John Clark1

I'm with Ugo. I hate them

Re improving life of components etc - I just hose the bike down after a ride - 30 seconds. Complete drivetrain degrease, dry and oil each weekend (10 minutes job). End of Autumn - cable (inner and outer) change and I never have any money so use the ones from the big Shimano box at the LBS which work perfectly.

In decades of using bikes everyday through the winter I've never had anything die on me due to the foul conditions.

If you leave stuff covered in shyyyyte for month, then yes, it will die. If you look after it then it'll be fine.

ugo.santalucia

Indeed...
the thing is if you have the clearance to fit big touring tyres and mudguards, then go for it, but if you have to choose between the two and have to compromise on a Gatorskin 25 because that's all you can fit with the cruds, then it's not worth it... they will puncture when it's dark and wet, they will slide when it's wet and slimy... in essence you are compromising safety for the sake of an allegedly drier bum and because you can't be bothered to maintain your bike... it works for some, not for me

arlowood

Seem to have gone slightly off topic into a mudguard/no mudguard stand-off.

A propos of that I will take off the front mudguard to see if the ticking/creaking is still there. It is possible that with my weight on the bike, the tyre is deforming enough to catch one of the mounting brackets.

If all else fails I will probably resort to replacing the front bearings as a last resort.

Ugo - any advice on bearing size would be appreciated. Also advice on removal technique. I note that each end cap on the Novatec 141 hub appears to have a small grub screw which I think requires a 3 or 4 mm allen key. I assume these should be loosened and the caps prised off.

robbo2011

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Indeed...
the thing is if you have the clearance to fit big touring tyres and mudguards, then go for it, but if you have to choose between the two and have to compromise on a Gatorskin 25 because that's all you can fit with the cruds, then it's not worth it... they will puncture when it's dark and wet, they will slide when it's wet and slimy... in essence you are compromising safety for the sake of an allegedly drier bum and because you can't be bothered to maintain your bike... it works for some, not for me

On my crosser, I am able to fit 35mm tyres and mudguards. Best of both worlds, but rather slow.

ugo.santalucia

arlowood wrote:

Ugo - any advice on bearing size would be appreciated. Also advice on removal technique. I note that each end cap on the Novatec 141 hub appears to have a small grub screw which I think requires a 3 or 4 mm allen key. I assume these should be loosened and the caps prised off.

Undo the allen nuts, mallet on one cap and the opposite will pop off... you can extract it with pliers too. Once the caps are off, just mallet on the axle to get the bearings out...

should be 24 x 12 x 7

But if they are smooth, they're not the problem... 99% is the SKS

arlowood

Just removed the front mudguard and went for a quick spin.

Ticking/creaking noise is still there. Seems to be more noticeable when I'm out of the saddle and leaning over the bars ie more weight through the front forks.

Will bite the bullet and order some new bearings.

Just wondered about the possibility of the noise being due to slight movement between one or more nipples and the corresponding eyelet. Is this likely or even possible? And if so would applying some form of lubricant around the base of each nipple be a means to solve the problem (eg WD40, GT85, 3-in-1???)

majormantra

Have you googled the phrase "creaking open pro rim". There are a lot of references to similar problems, some of which offer possible solutions.

crankycrank

MajorMantra wrote:

Have you googled the phrase "creaking open pro rim". There are a lot of references to similar problems, some of which offer possible solutions.

This^^^. Open Pros are notorious for having the joint start to tick after awhile with some of them. If you have black painted spokes the paint can eventually wear at crossings and can cause noises. Try putting a tiny bit of lube between the spokes at the crossings. Grease, Wax lube, Boeshield, Heavy oils, etc. will all work. You just don't want to use overly thin oils as they will just migrate to the rims eventually and just put the lube on a strip of cloth and floss. Even waxed dental floss by itself is helpful. Tyre choice may increase/decrease the noise but is not harmful in any way to your wheels.

arlowood

MajorMantra wrote:

Have you googled the phrase "creaking open pro rim". There are a lot of references to similar problems, some of which offer possible solutions.

Thanks for the heads up.

Just read through several of the "creaking/ clicking" Open Pro threads on various forums.

Majority diagnose the problem as being the interface between nipple and eyelet and that lubricating both from the inside and outside appears to be the solution. Other possible sources are cracking of the rim around an eyelet or some kind of partial failure of the rim joint.

I'll have a go at the lubrication option while I search out suitable bearings

arlowood

Lubricated the nipple/eyelet junctions this am both outside and inside the rim. Used a Teflon spray I had lying around.

Creaking/ ticking noise GONE now - at least it was during a short run up and down the road outside my house.

Will get a few more miles done this pm to make sure I've finally cured it.

Thanks to all for their input

ugo.santalucia

arlowood wrote:

Lubricated the nipple/eyelet junctions this am both outside and inside the rim. Used a Teflon spray I had lying around.

Creaking/ ticking noise GONE now - at least it was during a short run up and down the road outside my house.

Will get a few more miles done this pm to make sure I've finally cured it.

Thanks to all for their input

I think you have cured the symptoms, but not the problem. It is possible that after 18 months the wheel needs to be retensioned