Sportive Prologues

musto_skiff

We have all enjoyed recent TdF Prologue exploits of Wiggo & Froome recently and those with longer memories will recall Boardman taking the prologue and yellow jersey back in 94, 97 & 98 ... what a legend ...

Anyway ... here is a question ...?

Would you be interested in riding a short prologue (say 5 miles) prior to a Sportive?

It would be held perhaps the evening before or perhaps an hour before the roll-out time for the Sportive. The expectation would be that you ride on the same bike as you ride the Sportive so no need for TT bikes and novelty hats.

Entry would be on a first come first serve basis and the fastest 30 riders from the prologue would get the early/priority start time for the main event. They may even be prizes

Would people find entering a prologue of this type attractive?

DeVlaeminck

No.

ugo.santalucia

I think it could be fun...
The reality of having a short TT for 1000+ people is probably unfeasible. If you leave 30 seconds between riders, you can only have 120 riders per hour...

musto_skiff

My anticipation was that only those interested would ride and the number of slots be limited and allocated on a first come first served basis.

Any optional prologue prior to the event for those who fancied it ... a chance to earn an early start and perhaps win a prize.

I know many Sportive riders like to ride like they are in a race and perhaps this is a chance to have a short race before the event ...

turnerjohn

musto_skiff wrote:

The expectation would be that you ride on the same bike as you ride the Sportive so no need for TT bikes and novelty hats.

Entry would be on a first come first serve basis and the fastest 30 riders from the prologue would get the early/priority start time for the main event. They may even be prizes

Would people find entering a prologue of this type attractive?

so basically qualifying then ?!

musto_skiff

turnerjohn wrote:

musto_skiff wrote:

The expectation would be that you ride on the same bike as you ride the Sportive so no need for TT bikes and novelty hats.

Entry would be on a first come first serve basis and the fastest 30 riders from the prologue would get the early/priority start time for the main event. They may even be prizes

Would people find entering a prologue of this type attractive?

so basically qualifying then ?!

No not qualifying just a fun optional race prior to the event. One of the rewards could be the right to start in the first wave.

I'm not suggesting you'd have to ride the prologue to get a ride, just a fun optional race prior to the main event.

alihisgreat

musto_skiff wrote:

We have all enjoyed recent TdF Prologue exploits of Wiggo & Froome recently and those with longer memories will recall Boardman taking the prologue and yellow jersey back in 94, 97 & 98 ... what a legend ...

Anyway ... here is a question ...?

Would you be interested in riding a short prologue (say 5 miles) prior to a Sportive?

It would be held perhaps the evening before or perhaps an hour before the roll-out time for the Sportive. The expectation would be that you ride on the same bike as you ride the Sportive so no need for TT bikes and novelty hats.

Entry would be on a first come first serve basis and the fastest 30 riders from the prologue would get the early/priority start time for the main event. They may even be prizes

Would people find entering a prologue of this type attractive?

Sportives aren't races.. if people want to race then they go and do races..

musto_skiff

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

Sportives aren't races.. if people want to race then they go and do races..

I know ... but many Sportives I have ridden are ridden much like a road race ... perhaps a Prologue would let those people get a short sharp shot of competition prior to the main event ... it may have a positive effect on the riding style of the pseudo racers as the prologue helps them get that out of their system prior to the main event ...

markhewitt1978

No because sportives aren't races and should include no racing element. All the sportives I've ridden are nothing like a road race.

bigmat

Nothing like road races. Don't even compare to a fast group training session / chaingang. The last few I have done have ended up being long solo efforts for the most part - effectively 100 mile time trials. The continental gran fondos are a different kettle of fish of course.

Re the prologue element, yeah why not, if you could deal with the logistics then its a bit of fun I suppose. I think you'd struggle with those logistics though.

markhewitt1978

BigMat wrote:

Nothing like road races. Don't even compare to a fast group training session / chaingang. The last few I have done have ended up being long solo efforts for the most part - effectively 100 mile time trials.

Yep; I've found that, unless I'm deliberately riding with friends or club members you meet occasional other riders but they come and go, so for the most part it's a solo effort.

alihisgreat

musto_skiff wrote:

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

Sportives aren't races.. if people want to race then they go and do races..

I know ... but many Sportives I have ridden are ridden much like a road race ... perhaps a Prologue would let those people get a short sharp shot of competition prior to the main event ... it may have a positive effect on the riding style of the pseudo racers as the prologue helps them get that out of their system prior to the main event ...

Have you ever ridden in a road race?

DeVlaeminck

Apart from the logistical reasons I normally prefer a later start in a sportive (unless it's a continental race type one like the Marmotte) so a priority start wouldn't be much of a prize.

I normally travel on the day but if I have to travel the night before I like to go out and have a few drinks with the guys I'm riding with - not have to take another set of kit for some vomit inducing 5 mile time trial just so I can win the opportunity to have to get up early the next morning.

I suppose you could organise a time trial the night before for people that wanted it - you might get some takers but wouldn't they have to be in an affiliated club? If you organised an evening road race the night before I might be tempted if I was having to travel down that day anyway but I suspect sportive organisers have enough on their plate without putting on additional events which would not make them/their charity any meaningful extra income.

deanstacey

As you will be racing on the highway you will need extra permission from the Police etc and extra insurance.

Not really worth it as the "Prize" of starting early can be negated by just arriving on site a bit earlier.

Also, riders get to our events at 7.30am. In order to organise a prologue before the event you'd have to have riders registered and out by7.30 so they'd be showing up at 6 - 6.30am. Is that really what you want to do on a Sunday morning? All so you can get a bit of a quicker start on a ride that is not a race.

Dean ( Evans Cycles)

musto_skiff

deanstacey wrote:

As you will be racing on the highway you will need extra permission from the Police etc and extra insurance.

You don't need the permission of the Police to run a time trial although it is protocol to notify them.

The thought behind this is to introduce the sport of time trialling to riders who had not perhaps though to participating in this style of race.

There are plenty of excellent riders that perhaps to date have only ridden in Sportives and this was an idea to show case time trails to people.

I'd anticipate a local cycling club partner with the Sportive organiser to run the prologue in partnership with the event purely for the sportive riders to have a go at time trials.

I would anticipate the TT would perhaps be limited to 60 - 120 riders so it is just really about adding something extra to the event for those who wanted to have a try ...

alihisgreat

musto_skiff wrote:

deanstacey wrote:

As you will be racing on the highway you will need extra permission from the Police etc and extra insurance.

You don't need the permission of the Police to run a time trial although it is protocol to notify them.

The thought behind this is to introduce the sport of time trialling to riders who had not perhaps though to participating in this style of race.

There are plenty of excellent riders that perhaps to date have only ridden in Sportives and this was an idea to show case time trails to people.

I'd anticipate a local cycling club partner with the Sportive organiser to run the prologue in partnership with the event purely for the sportive riders to have a go at time trials.

I would anticipate the TT would perhaps be limited to 60 - 120 riders so it is just really about adding something extra to the event for those who wanted to have a try ...

The way to get people involved in time trials is to get them involved in local clubs.. and you don't need a fake race before a sportive to advertise local clubs.. they could just be invited to put up information stalls at the sportive.


and my question still stands as to whether you have ever ridden a road race? Because I can assure you that a sportive is nothing like a road race.

musto_skiff

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

and my question still stands as to whether you have ever ridden a road race? Because I can assure you that a sportive is nothing like a road race.

Yes I have ridden loads of road races but I don't any more; I have no sprint finish ...

I have ridden a number of sportives; some have been a solo effort which of course is nothing like a RR but others I have got caught up in the leading group which has ridden hard and fast and had very much the feel of a RR ...

I guess you have the option of how you wish to ride ... but the point I was raising is many newcomers to cycling come in via Sportives and don't necessarily know what racing options are available to them ... perhaps a prologue would be a nice side show to the main event that would interest some??

markhewitt1978

It would mark the sportive out as more of a race event, thus losing the already tenuous support of the public for sportives. In short it would be exceptionally damaging.

It wouldn't even be an event in it's own right as it would be too early for spectators.

ugo.santalucia

Does any thread about sportives have to become a sportive Vs race kind of pointless argument?

I think the OP idea is potentially interesting and worth discussing without preconceptions... no need to dig yet again into this tedious "I am a racer, I know what a race is" done to death... let's move on, shall we?

musto_skiff

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Does any thread about sportives have to become a sportive Vs race kind of pointless argument?

I think the OP idea is potentially interesting and worth discussing without preconceptions... no need to dig yet again into this tedious "I am a racer, I know what a race is" done to death... let's move on, shall we?

Thanks for that, I don't see why a formal race could not sit alongside a non-competitive event.

markhewitt1978

musto_skiff wrote:

Thanks for that, I don't see why a formal race could not sit alongside a non-competitive event.

Like they did with Ride London?

musto_skiff

Seems like my suggestion is now a reality.

How many of you have entered?

http://vcoolsm.org/index.php

alan_a

musto_skiff wrote:

Seems like my suggestion is now a reality.

How many of you have entered?

http://vcoolsm.org/index.php

I think this looks great. Well done!!!

musto_skiff

Alan A wrote:

musto_skiff wrote:

Seems like my suggestion is now a reality.

How many of you have entered?

http://vcoolsm.org/index.php

I think this looks great. Well done!!!

The event is nothing to do with me ... Just floated the idea here to see what people thought.

People were on the whole a bit negative yet I believe this TT event is now almost sold out.

sancho_panza

2015 will be the second year the Corima Drome Provencale in Montelimar has started the previous day with a TT. Limited places available (first come first served, encouraging early registration); an opportunity for the event sponsors to get more publicity; more people filling up the town and more buzz about the place. I'm not sure if it then determines the position at the start line the following day, but that's the system that was used in the Haute Route Alps last year, which started with an 8km blast along the front at Lake Geneva.

Seems like a super idea - but possibly works best where you have more of a culture of sportives being treated like road races (at the pointy end that is) and where it's easier to isolate some road space without upsetting too many people. These events have rankings, prizes, podiums and press shoots; motos with gap times buzzing past, and marshals closing all junctions. But that's a different conversation...

antsmithmk

BigMat wrote:

Nothing like road races. Don't even compare to a fast group training session / chaingang. The last few I have done have ended up being long solo efforts for the most part - effectively 100 mile time trials. The continental gran fondos are a different kettle of fish of course.

Re the prologue element, yeah why not, if you could deal with the logistics then its a bit of fun I suppose. I think you'd struggle with those logistics though.

And the cost. They will struggle with the cost.