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"Easier fit" Cross Tyre for Stans Crest

springtide9springtide9 Posts: 1,731
edited January 2014 in Cyclocross
OK so it looks like I should be OK with the Crest rims (although not ideal) with Cross Tyres, as long as I choose the tyre wisely.

'2oldnslow' posted that the Continental Cyclocross Speed tyres go on without too many issues

Will want to run with tubes for now... so any recommendations on what 'reasonably knobbly' tyres that don't need a hydraulic press to fit :-)

Something like a Panaracer Cindercross or Schwalbe Racing Ralph? Anyone?
Simon

Posts

  • what have you tried and what experiences have you had so far. do tell more...
    When a cyclist has a disagreement with a car; it's not who's right, it's who's left.
  • springtide9springtide9 Posts: 1,731
    what have you tried and what experiences have you had so far. do tell more...

    I have only tried to fit a 28mm road tyre (Conti GP 4 Season) without success with a tube (although I did manage to get it on as a trial without a tube)
    [ On the Stans forum as well as from a wheel builder on Ebay, both suggested that 28mm are fine on the Crests, but didn't mention what tyres ]

    A few people here have suggested that the Crests might not have been the best choice of rim as tyres can be difficult to fit. Before I spend money on tyres - I'm looking for feedback on what they will be like to fit (tubed).

    This seems a more sensible idea rather than purchasing a set of tyres only to find out they are a pig to fit (and not suitable for attempting to change while out on a trial) - and having someone state later that I made a very poor choice.

    On the Stan's forum they appear to state that pretty much most CX tyres will fit without any issues. Where as if you read ugo.santalucia post it seems he tried a huge range of tyres and struggled to find any that would go on without a hydraulic press.
    Simon
  • On the Stan's forum they appear to state that pretty much most CX tyres will fit without any issues. Where as if you read ugo.santalucia post it seems he tried a huge range of tyres and struggled to find any that would go on without a hydraulic press.
    Not huge, I tried what I had at home... Vittoria Randonneur PRO 32, Vittoria XN 32 and Continental Gatorskin 25... the latter was a NON folding one
    I did not try extreme measures, as I didn't want a tyre stuck on there, when I had already made up my mind to return the rims... what's the point of riding wheels that you cannot repair once on the road if you have a flat?
  • I managed to get Ritchey Excavader's to fit.

    They were a bit tight, but go on reasonably OK if you make sure the bead is in the center channel when trying to get the last bit over. You will need to use levers though. I am running them with tubes at the moment, but intend to convert to tubeless as soon as I get round to getting the Stans kit.
  • Monty DogMonty Dog Posts: 20,614
    If you're using Crests then strongly suggest you try and run them tubeless - I've fitted a range of tyres to Crests OK - you need to get the tyre bead into the central well. If you've got more than one layer of rim strip, you'll really struggle. I've run Schwalbe Smart Sams tubeless as well as some WTB Terra-somethings. Some well-worn Racing Ralph folders too - they are too porous / perforated to work tubeless though.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • springtide9springtide9 Posts: 1,731
    Thanks for the replies.

    Yes the plan is to initially run with tubes and consider tubeless later. I'm not confident repairing tubeless (no experience), so the ability to run tubeless but pop in a tube if I get a flat for some reason seems the best option.

    What I don't really want to do is run tubeless but know that I have no hope in hell in fitting a tube should the need arise (especially if miles from home!)

    I also sent a couple of PMs to people I knew have Crests and @psterdeacon has replied and suggested that Michelin Mud 2s can be fitted without too much issue.

    I also got some info from "Pete" on Stan's forum (as also suggested by @Monty Dog) that removing the Hope rim stripe and replacing it with a single layer of Yellow Stan's tape will help matters.

    So think I'll give the Mud 2's a try as it seems they are pretty popular (based on the Mud 2 alternative thread). I have also bought a pair of decent leavers rather than the plastic Halfords leavers that you get free with their puncture kits. I've always thought if you have to resort to leavers to fit a tyre you've failed!

    Thanks again and will report back once the stuff has arrived and I've had a chance to fit.
    Simon
  • asprillaasprilla Posts: 8,440
    How did you get on?

    I'm looking at some Crestss as a rim option for my CX.
    Mud - Genesis Vapour CCX
    Race - Fuji Norcom Straight
    Sun - Cervelo R3
    Winter / Commute - Dolan ADX
  • Asprilla wrote:
    How did you get on?

    I'm looking at some Crestss as a rim option for my CX.

    Don't bother...
  • tgotbtgotb Posts: 4,714
    Asprilla wrote:
    How did you get on?

    I'm looking at some Crestss as a rim option for my CX.
    Take a look at the cable disk brake caliper thread, which went OT and covered this. In short:
    29er and road/CX rims appear to be different
    For Stan's rims on CX you want to be looking at Iron Cross (disc brakes) or Alpha (rim or disc brakes)
    Ugo doesn't like Stan's rims and doubts their longevity
    I like Iron Cross a lot but haven't had them long enough to comment on longevity
    Pannier, 120rpm.
  • bobleybobley Posts: 60
    I cant say I've tried particularly hard to fit tyres to my Iron Cross wheels but with 1 layer of stans tape on I've fitted Racing Ralphs and Clement PDX without levers and then got them locked on with a very quick blast from the compressor.

    Racing Ralphs didn't work too well and could be burped at 35psi with a shove sideways on the garage floor and also burped on a bump. At 40psi I've raced pretty rough terrain but I did wimp out.

    PDXs have been fine so far at 35psi.

    I've not had to repair any tubeless tyres yet but I doubt you'd need to pop the beads off if you did. Worst case scenario I carry a tube.
  • springtide9springtide9 Posts: 1,731
    To answer the question... I still haven't bought any tyres as currently have been road only... but my rear hub is now squealing badly so have ordered a pair of these:

    http://www.fatbirds.co.uk/954929/produc ... imano.aspx

    For £246 with the voucher code: TJOOS - but there is a wait of a month or so.

    So to answer your question.... I wouldn't recommend the Crests as they are too picky with tyres (if you want to run road or cross). Personally think if you want to run cross only - the Iron Cross seem a better proposition
    Simon
  • springtide9springtide9 Posts: 1,731
    I wrote a little piece on the subject

    http://paolocoppo.drupalgardens.com/con ... ake-matter

    Thanks - interesting article. I guess originally the ISO rim standard wasn't designed to be a tubeless system and now there are a few tubeless systems that are attempting to retrofit standard tyres.

    As there is no chance of using the Crests for road tyres... I have ordered a pair of hand-built's: Archetype, D711/D712 hubs / 32/32 Sapim Race spokes.
    I did initially order the new Kinesis Crosslight CX Disc wheels - but they are still out of stock and a bit of an unknown (the new versions - the hubs and rims have changed I believe)

    I did think about asking you to build me a set.. but already had been in discussions with a local wheelbuilder.. so it was easier to just to place the order there (and now need them pretty quickly)

    Hopefully you have a better opinion of the Archetypes than the Crests :-)
    Simon
  • Hopefully you have a better opinion of the Archetypes than the Crests :-)

    I would think so, having built a few hundred of those rims... :wink:
    I have ordered a pair of stans rims for myself, not Crest though... the Alpha 340 disc... 8)
  • springtide9springtide9 Posts: 1,731
    Hopefully you have a better opinion of the Archetypes than the Crests :-)

    I would think so, having built a few hundred of those rims... :wink:
    I have ordered a pair of stans rims for myself, not Crest though... the Alpha 340 disc... 8)

    I was tempted by the 340 discs, but something told me to avoid Stans until I at least have one working set of wheels before further experimenting! If there was a beefier 400 disc rim that would be really tempting!

    And yes, I read many of your comments about the Archetypes ... and was very aware that you were a fan.
    Simon
  • Hopefully you have a better opinion of the Archetypes than the Crests :-)

    I would think so, having built a few hundred of those rims... :wink:
    I have ordered a pair of stans rims for myself, not Crest though... the Alpha 340 disc... 8)

    I was tempted by the 340 discs, but something told me to avoid Stans until I at least have one working set of wheels before further experimenting! If there was a beefier 400 disc rim that would be really tempting!

    I had a look at the two rims and the difference is minimum and will only affect stiffness, rather than durability... most importantly the nipple bed is the same, so if one cracks, the other must crack too. The new 340 are around 400 grams, so not ridiculously light as the pre-2012 ones and the extra weight is all in the nipple bed... but I will build mine with washers just in case.
  • springtide9springtide9 Posts: 1,731
    Hopefully you have a better opinion of the Archetypes than the Crests :-)

    I would think so, having built a few hundred of those rims... :wink:
    I have ordered a pair of stans rims for myself, not Crest though... the Alpha 340 disc... 8)

    I was tempted by the 340 discs, but something told me to avoid Stans until I at least have one working set of wheels before further experimenting! If there was a beefier 400 disc rim that would be really tempting!

    I had a look at the two rims and the difference is minimum and will only affect stiffness, rather than durability... most importantly the nipple bed is the same, so if one cracks, the other must crack too. The new 340 are around 400 grams, so not ridiculously light as the pre-2012 ones and the extra weight is all in the nipple bed... but I will build mine with washers just in case.

    Thanks for that info. I hadn't realised that the 340 design had been updated with a thicker nipple bed (as aware of the reports of the cracking).

    I had read this:
    http://www.notubes.com/Alpha-400-Rims-C128.aspx
    The ZTR Alpha 400 offers a 33% thicker spoke bed than the original Alpha 340 rim for maximum durability

    Which implies that the spoke bed is thicker than the 340 - but actually it's talking about the old 340 rim (and looking at the rim design - the thickness looks identical compared to the 400)

    You'll have to let us know how you get on with the Stans rims... and how hard tyres are to fit to the Alpha rims.

    I've always fancied a pair of light hand-built's for the road bike: 340's with Hope Hubs and Aero spokes (for "the look")... seems a good replacement to my Fulcrum R3s when they eventually need replacing.
    Simon
  • I was tempted by the 340 discs, but something told me to avoid Stans until I at least have one working set of wheels before further experimenting! If there was a beefier 400 disc rim that would be really tempting!

    You'll have to let us know how you get on with the Stans rims... and how hard tyres are to fit to the Alpha rims.

    I've always fancied a pair of light hand-built's for the road bike: 340's with Hope Hubs and Aero spokes (for "the look")... seems a good replacement to my Fulcrum R3s when they eventually need replacing.

    I have built the front, tomorrow will do the rear and post some photos. Fitting a tyre on the Alpha couldn't be easier... completely different ball game to the Crest... the tyre profile is not dissimilar to many 23 mm wide rims, which makes sense as the internal width of the Alpha is 17 mm and Velocity A 23 is 17.5, so pretty much the same
  • majormantramajormantra Posts: 2,094
    That looks mighty fine!
  • That looks mighty fine!

    Thanks MM... I hope you appreciate my butchering skills too, in transforming a Brooks Team PRO into a Brooks Cross Santalucia for added stiffness! :mrgreen:
  • majormantramajormantra Posts: 2,094
    Very stylish. My brief flirtation with Brooks was not a happy one, but that was on my town bike that I ride in jeans. Might have another go sometime with proper shorts to see if it's any better as I've been suffering in the saddle department of late. (And forever.)
  • springtide9springtide9 Posts: 1,731
    Finally managed to pick up a pair of Mich Mud 2's over Xmas and have fitted these to my Hope Hoop Crest's without any problem at all. I obviously did need to make sure the tyre sat in the centre grove - but once I did that they went on without any tools.

    Also my h'built Archetype's /, D711/D712 hubs / 32/32 Sapim Race spokes arrived and are also fitted and running well and spin up faster than the previous wheels.

    All is good although it appears the creaking from the wheels wasn't from the wheels at all - but from the BB, but that's another PF30 story to be worked out :-)
    Simon
  • tgotbtgotb Posts: 4,714
    All is good although it appears the creaking from the wheels wasn't from the wheels at all - but from the BB, but that's another PF30 story to be worked out :-)
    When my PF30 started creaking it turned out to be contaminated bearings. I popped the seals off, flushed out the mud and replaced with grease, and the problem went away.

    Was your BB fitted with the recommended Loctite? I've also heard of them creaking if they're fitted without that.

    BB30 seals do look pretty ineffective; I'm sufficiently paranoid that I carry a spare set of bearings, and the tools to change them, in the box of spares that I take to races...
    Pannier, 120rpm.
  • springtide9springtide9 Posts: 1,731
    TGOTB wrote:
    All is good although it appears the creaking from the wheels wasn't from the wheels at all - but from the BB, but that's another PF30 story to be worked out :-)
    When my PF30 started creaking it turned out to be contaminated bearings. I popped the seals off, flushed out the mud and replaced with grease, and the problem went away.

    Was your BB fitted with the recommended Loctite? I've also heard of them creaking if they're fitted without that.

    BB30 seals do look pretty ineffective; I'm sufficiently paranoid that I carry a spare set of bearings, and the tools to change them, in the box of spares that I take to races...

    Thanks for the info. The BB was fitted by PX - so not sure. The bearing seals do seem a little exposed and obviously not sure of the quality of the BB fitted by PX.

    I have an SRAM Red compact chainset spare and mainly use the cross bike on the road - so have been tempted to fit something like: http://www.enduroforkseals.com/id398.html

    Thinking that this design looks pretty well sealed from the elements and as I don't CX race, could live with a 34/50 (rather than 36/46). The creaking seems to come and go and only while under very high load, so probably just a re-grease would fix the issue... maybe a job for this evening :D
    Simon
  • tgotbtgotb Posts: 4,714
    Probably the same one I have (which I got from PX and fitted myself). It's actually fine, lasted much longer than I expected; I just pop the seals off after every really muddy ride (or thorough washing) and regrease it.
    Pannier, 120rpm.
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