Cane Creek DB air - anyone tried one?

sofaboy73

Never been completely happy with the RP23 on my Nomad as it's always felt like it wallows too much when climbing and sits too low into the stroke unless you run it too hard. similar sensation when railing berms, the small bump sensitivity is ok but not great and the high speed rebound from repeated square edge hits isn't great. The pro-pedal makes next to no difference so was thinking about getting it PUSH tuned.

however as that is c £150 and i could probably sell the shock for c £100, i was thinking save a few pennies (cough - £200) and upgrade to a cane creek DB air.

they seem to get great reiews in the mags etc, but would be interested to hear from some 'real world' users, especially if you've tried one on a Nomad. are they as good as the hype makes out, any downs sides, what are they like on a VPP set up?

also see they have jsut introduced their own climing setup in the climb switch, aware they've only been out a short period, but anyone know if these actually make a noticeable differance (unlike pro pedal)?

rockmonkeysc

Sounds like you just need an air can volume reducer or two. I had the same thing with my Float R. You can put grease in the air can to have the same effect but it does degrade and it's only a small amount you need to put in.

poah

what exactly are you expecting propedal to do, it won't lock the shock out.

the CCDB air does have a lot of hype around it but it does appear to be like every other shock out there some like it some don't.

will you even get a second hand CCDB air for £300?

how heavy are you kitted up

Kowalski675

I've tried one, but only very briefly, so can't really tell you much, other than that it felt a whole lot plusher and more expensive than my Monarch R.

The Northern Monkey

Speak to tftuned and get it custom tuned. Would be a better investment imo, the rp23 is a great shock.

benpinnick

The db air is definitely a league above the rp23, but you need to be patient with it. It should work really well with a vpp bike as pro pedal really doesn't work well on that shock curve.

sofaboy73

POAH wrote:

what exactly are you expecting propedal to do, it won't lock the shock out.

the CCDB air does have a lot of hype around it but it does appear to be like every other shock out there some like it some don't.

will you even get a second hand CCDB air for £300?

how heavy are you kitted up

expect the pro pedal to add LSC and firm it up to reduce the wallow as it's designed to, rather than being any form of lock out. since i've had it from new there has been no real noticeable difference between fully open and firmest setting.

could be a dodgy shock, could be that pro pedal doesn't work great on VPP designs, tbh when i've tried other bikes fitted with propedal i've never been blown away by it's function. Might be that i'm border line in terms of weight for a high volume air can on a vpp bike at c 14.5 st in kit?

aware won't get one at £300, looking at £450 - some slightly self justifying accounting (£100 could sell the rp23 for, the £150 i would be paying to get the rp23 serviced & pushed and another £200 on top)

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Sounds like you just need an air can volume reducer or two. I had the same thing with my Float R. You can put grease in the air can to have the same effect but it does degrade and it's only a small amount you need to put in.

might reduce some of the wallow but wouldn't solve the HSR or small bump issues? still, a cheap fix that's prob worth trying before anything else, good flag

The Northern Monkey wrote:

Speak to tftuned and get it custom tuned. Would be a better investment imo, the rp23 is a great shock.

other than it being the more cost effective option, what makes it a better investment in your mind?

thanks for the input so far - any other opinions welcome

lawman

I'd get it tuned for your weight and style. Mojo tuned my RP23 for me and I had it kashima'd too and the difference was insane. Far less wallow in the mid-stroke and it still felt great over small bumps. My guess is being a VPP bike your nomad will have a light compression tune, which might be fine for someone 12st, but you being a bit above that would benefit from a medium or even hard tune. There should be a sticker on the air can telling you what rebound and compression tune you have. If both are light which I imagine they are, a re-tune would be a great option as you'll effectively have the shock tuned specifically for you, your weight as your riding style

Dick Scruttock

sofaboy73 wrote:

aware won't get one at £300, looking at £450 - some slightly self justifying accounting (£100 could sell the rp23 for, the £150 i would be paying to get the rp23 serviced & pushed and another £200 on top)

£485 gets you a DBA-CS from TF Tuned.

rockmonkeysc

I have heard that the DB air has the same rebound problem as the DB coil.
With the coil the rebound damper cant control anything bigger than a 500lb coil without modifications. I think it's around a 250psi max on the CCDB air.
I had to have mine modified to run a 550lb coil.

poah

sofaboy73 wrote:

expect the pro pedal to add LSC and firm it up to reduce the wallow as it's designed to, rather than being any form of lock out. since i've had it from new there has been no real noticeable difference between fully open and firmest setting.

could be a dodgy shock, could be that pro pedal doesn't work great on VPP designs, tbh when i've tried other bikes fitted with propedal i've never been blown away by it's function. Might be that i'm border line in terms of weight for a high volume air can on a vpp bike at c 14.5 st in kit?

aware won't get one at £300, looking at £450 - some slightly self justifying accounting (£100 could sell the rp23 for, the £150 i would be paying to get the rp23 serviced & pushed and another £200 on top)

might reduce some of the wallow but wouldn't solve the HSR or small bump issues? still, a cheap fix that's prob worth trying before anything else, good flag

thanks for the input so far - any other opinions welcome

propedal should firm up the compression - this should be noticeable when you compare sag however it might not have enough compression damping for your weight hence you don't see much difference when pedalling.

option 1/ fit reducers to make the end stroke less linear - this should give you small bump sensitivity without blowing through the travel but won't affect propedal.

option 2/ get it push tuned - this should change the shock a lot if they do it correctly. this will affect propedal as well

option 3/ get a coil shock - these can be had quite cheaply second hand

Kowalski675

POAH wrote:

propedal should firm up the compression - this should be noticeable when you compare sag

Compression damping doesn't alter sag.

poah

Kowalski675 wrote:

POAH wrote:

propedal should firm up the compression - this should be noticeable when you compare sag

Compression damping doesn't alter sag.

if you apply more damping the shock won't move as much hence less sag

Kowalski675

POAH wrote:

Kowalski675 wrote:

POAH wrote:

propedal should firm up the compression - this should be noticeable when you compare sag

Compression damping doesn't alter sag.

if you apply more damping the shock won't move as much hence less sag

Sorry, but that's total cobblers. Sag is determined by preload adjustment (spring preload on a coil, air pressure on an air spring). Altering preload doesn't make a fork/shock softer or harder, and is completely independant of damping. The job of the damping is to control the movement of the spring. Adding compression damping means the spring will compress more slowly, but it will still compress the same amount for a given force - increasing damping does not alter the spring rate, and will not alter static sag.

I see mountain biking's just like motorcycling in some respects - suspension advice being given by folk who don't even understand the fundamental basics, lol...

rockmonkeysc

Compression damping controls how fast the shock can compress. It does not affect sag at all.
Take all the air out of your shock and compress it by hand with max and min compression. You will fully compress it at both extremes but with max compression it will move more slowly.

poah

Kowalski675 wrote:

Sorry, but that's total cobblers. Sag is determined by preload adjustment (spring preload on a coil, air pressure on an air spring). Altering preload doesn't make a fork/shock softer or harder, and is completely independant of damping. The job of the damping is to control the movement of the spring. Adding compression damping means the spring will compress more slowly, but it will still compress the same amount for a given force - increasing damping does not alter the spring rate, and will not alter static sag.

I see mountain biking's just like motorcycling in some respects - suspension advice being given by folk who don't even understand the fundamental basics, lol...

then why when I sit on my bike the shock does not depress as much with the compression lever switched to hard compared to open surely that's altering the sag. (genuine question not trying to argue)

cooldad

Compression adjustment or lockout?

poah

compression adjustment

Kowalski675

How are you measuring your sag? Best way is to have a good bounce on the shock, let it settle under your weight, then slide the o ring up to the seal, get off carefully (taking care not to compress the suspension), then measure. That way overcomes stiction that can affect the measurement if you just sit your weight on the bike gently.

Damping and preload are two separate entities. You can only alter sag by increasing preload, (or changing to a different rate spring on a coil shock). Damping just controls how quickly the spring compresses and rebounds (with zero damping your sag would be the same (it's the spring that supports your weight), but the shock would behave like a pogo stick, or Zebedee after too many Haribo..