Bora 80 or enve 6.7

markyone

I am in the market for some deep section wheels. Looking at bora 80 tubular and enve 6.7
Price difference about £700 to £800 more for enve.
Ribble have bora for £1600 or around that figure. Mud dock in bristol have enve for about £2400.
Any in put would be great.
Condor cycles london have bora for £2400 as I went in this week to have a look, how can they justify that price compared to the likes of ribble and wiggle.
Both sets have great hubs and bearings.

Grill

I don't see the point of the Bora 80. They don't do anything particularly well, especially compared to the Enve's which are lighter, more aero, and won't tip you over as quickly when it gusts. What do you plan to do with them? Is it just to have pretty wheels when the weather is nice?

Condor is more expensive because they're a smaller brick and mortar store. This means more overhead and that they don't qualify for the same bulk discounts as the massive internet stores. Also, because of their location there is actually a chance that they sell them for RRP. If you don't ask...

sloppyschleckonds

Ooohhh nice

xscreamsuk

Enve 3.4?

markyone

Grill wrote:

I don't see the point of the Bora 80. They don't do anything particularly well, especially compared to the Enve's which are lighter, more aero, and won't tip you over as quickly when it gusts. What do you plan to do with them? Is it just to have pretty wheels when the weather is nice?

Condor is more expensive because they're a smaller brick and mortar store. This means more overhead and that they don't qualify for the same bulk discounts as the massive internet stores. Also, because of their location there is actually a chance that they sell them for RRP. If you don't ask...

Time trials,and for when the weather is nice.
I have other wheels for hilly rides.

evs78

I'd bung your £1600 on a banker even money bet and get some Lightweights!

That said, I have never been in such a fortunate position to have to consider such an option (so am talking s*** really).

Tom Dean

markyone wrote:

Grill wrote:

I don't see the point of the Bora 80. They don't do anything particularly well, especially compared to the Enve's which are lighter, more aero, and won't tip you over as quickly when it gusts. What do you plan to do with them? Is it just to have pretty wheels when the weather is nice?

Condor is more expensive because they're a smaller brick and mortar store. This means more overhead and that they don't qualify for the same bulk discounts as the massive internet stores. Also, because of their location there is actually a chance that they sell them for RRP. If you don't ask...

Time trials,and for when the weather is nice.
I have other wheels for hilly rides.

Enve for aero, Boras for looks.

You will look a bit of a bellend training on either, but the Boras are more obvious, beautiful as the stickers are.

Big_Ring_Rider

With an attitude like that, don't expect Condor to help you if and when the wheel needs a service. I'm sure Wiggle will help...

Anyway, in answer to your question, I agree with the above...Enve 3.4

ugo.santalucia

markyone wrote:

Time trials,and for when the weather is nice.
I have other wheels for hilly rides.

Arguably, Zipp and HED make the fastest toroidal rims. HED are better priced, better built and more service friendly... I am talking of the Stinger tubular ones of course... I think around £ 1600. The logos are quite big too, they have been spotted in satellite images..

izza

I own the 6.7's on CK hubs.

They are fantastic for every day training and based on the flat sections I do, I see no reason they wouldn't be great for time trials.

Grill

At the price you're looking at you can go Mad Fiber
Or, since you're running Campy, you can get these Reynolds 66 (braking is second to none for carbon) for an absolute steal:
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/reynolds-66-tubular-road-wheelset/rp-prod62469?_$ja=tsid:46412|cgn:Reynolds+-+Wheels|cn:Chain+Reaction-UK-PLA-PLA-All-DT-SE|kw:234701UK_Reynolds+66+Tubular+Road+Wheelset&gclid=CPevmNTXw7oCFceDQgod-l0AGQ

markyone

Big_Ring_Rider wrote:

With an attitude like that, don't expect Condor to help you if and when the wheel needs a service. I'm sure Wiggle will help...

Anyway, in answer to your question, I agree with the above...Enve 3.4

Attitude like what? explain.

markyone

Grill wrote:

At the price you're looking at you can go Mad Fiber
Or, since you're running Campy, you can get these Reynolds 66 (braking is second to none for carbon) for an absolute steal:
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/reynolds-66-tubular-road-wheelset/rp-prod62469?_$ja=tsid:46412|cgn:Reynolds+-+Wheels|cn:Chain+Reaction-UK-PLA-PLA-All-DT-SE|kw:234701UK_Reynolds+66+Tubular+Road+Wheelset&gclid=CPevmNTXw7oCFceDQgod-l0AGQ

I have been looking at these for a while,not sure how good the hubs are.

FransJacques

I own Zipp 404 FCs but have ridden the Mavic 80mm wheels once so would add - go for the Enve Smart design not the Enve nor Campag (Corima?) classic designs.

At that kind of depth you want all the handling benefits you can get and if you believe the marketing 'science' then the Enve Smart design could give the best handling. Note a lot of conditional verbs in that sentence b/c I don't believe or understand what makes one 80 mm whell handle better than another 80mm wheel...

diamonddog

Think Mad Fiber are going belly up. :shock:

bernithebiker

diamonddog wrote:

Think Mad Fiber are going belly up. :shock:

Yep, looks that way. Shame as their wheels look great. Found this on a US forum;

I've had 2 Mad Fiber clinchers replaced, and just a few weeks ago the same thing happened- my 3rd damaged wheel with the same defect- delaminated cf from the aluminum structure. This time Mad Fiber didn't respond, sadly because of the company's situation. Ultimately the reason behind their downfall is the horrible quality of the wheels. RIP Mad Fiber.

ugo.santalucia

bernithebiker wrote:

Ultimately the reason behind their downfall is the horrible quality of the wheels.

Well, you don't need to be an expert in carbon fibre composite to realise the even by just looking at their wheels... they simply don't make any sense

PS: I wonder what Wiggle is going to do with the 9 sets they still have to flog...

Grill

markyone wrote:

Grill wrote:

At the price you're looking at you can go Mad Fiber
Or, since you're running Campy, you can get these Reynolds 66 (braking is second to none for carbon) for an absolute steal:
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/reynolds-66-tubular-road-wheelset/rp-prod62469?_$ja=tsid:46412|cgn:Reynolds+-+Wheels|cn:Chain+Reaction-UK-PLA-PLA-All-DT-SE|kw:234701UK_Reynolds+66+Tubular+Road+Wheelset&gclid=CPevmNTXw7oCFceDQgod-l0AGQ

I have been looking at these for a while,not sure how good the hubs are.

Hubs are DT Swiss 240S Hyb, so really good for the money. I'd ride them until they wear and then rebuild them with Alchemy ELF/ORC.

Mad Fiber has indeed filed for bankruptcy. Their issue was always with their clinchers as they ate a lot in warranty. Why anyone would buy them as a clincher is beyond me...

Tom Dean

I always assumed Mad Fiber must have been technically good to get away with those looks and the revolting name...

Grill

Their tubular wheels are fantastic. It's the silly punters screaming for clinchers that caused quality issues.

bernithebiker

I'll buy a set of tubulars from Wiggle if they get down to a grand....!

Grill

bernithebiker wrote:

I'll buy a set of tubulars from Wiggle if they get down to a grand....!

+1

markyone

They could be on my list keep an eye out

Big_Ring_Rider

markyone wrote:

Big_Ring_Rider wrote:

With an attitude like that, don't expect Condor to help you if and when the wheel needs a service. I'm sure Wiggle will help...

Anyway, in answer to your question, I agree with the above...Enve 3.4

Attitude like what? explain.

Sorry markyone, that wasn't intended to sound so arsey. As good as these online deals are, independent retailers simply can't match it. It's the whole online vs high street debate. But what I've seen in cycling, someone will buy from CRC, Merlin etc then expect a local shop to be their first port of call should their be a slight issue, just because it's convinient for them. If you buy from Condor, rest assured you've got a good service for life on them wheels.

cycleclinic

That is true and it isn't I run a shop and while on some parts it is not possible to complete with some on line deals it is on other parts it depends where you buy from how deep you pockets are (mine are not deep enough yet) and what your overheads are. Condor run a shop in London that is never going to be cheap, how many on line bike retailers have there ware house in London? They put them some where alot cheaper did not CRC set up with tax incentives as part of regeneration efforts in NI. That would have helped a bit also could be worng on that, my memory from the ninties has gone a bit stetchy.

ugo.santalucia

thecycleclinic wrote:

... how deep you pockets are (mine are not deep enough yet)

... said the man who just ordered a bespoke set of hubs worth a grand...

viewtopic.php?f=40004&t=12943651&p=18563454&hilit=royce#p18563454

markyone

Been looking at hed stinger 6 also,so anyone know what hey are like?
hubs etc.
http://www.hedcycling.com/stinger/default.asp?content=6

ugo.santalucia

markyone wrote:

Been looking at hed stinger 6 also,so anyone know what hey are like?
hubs etc.
http://www.hedcycling.com/stinger/default.asp?content=6

Normally HED don't bother with crap hubs. The good thing is that using J bend spokes in a crossed lacing pattern, everything can be rebuilt easily if needs be and you should not experience Zipp-like hub explosions. Also 24 holes gives you a lot more options, in case things went wrong, as opposed to 20, as used by many others. If the bearings turned out to be disappointing, an upgrade to SKF or similar would set you off a few quid only.
The carbon shell should be fine, the shells don't normally give too much grief.
The front has straight pull spokes, but front hubs generally speaking are trouble free. In essence, pound for pound I think they are the best option and the rims are top notch, on pair with Zipp, Reynolds etc...
Performance wise, I have only heard good things about HED wheels from triathletes

markyone

ugo.santalucia wrote:

markyone wrote:

Been looking at hed stinger 6 also,so anyone know what hey are like?
hubs etc.
http://www.hedcycling.com/stinger/default.asp?content=6

Normally HED don't bother with crap hubs. The good thing is that using J bend spokes in a crossed lacing pattern, everything can be rebuilt easily if needs be and you should not experience Zipp-like hub explosions. Also 24 holes gives you a lot more options, in case things went wrong, as opposed to 20, as used by many others. If the bearings turned out to be disappointing, an upgrade to SKF or similar would set you off a few quid only.
The carbon shell should be fine, the shells don't normally give too much grief.
The front has straight pull spokes, but front hubs generally speaking are trouble free. In essence, pound for pound I think they are the best option and the rims are top notch, on pair with Zipp, Reynolds etc...
Performance wise, I have only heard good things about HED wheels from triathletes

Thanks ugo I know you know your stuff.
Going back to the bora 80 they have 18 spokes on the rear,does that mean they are not that strong?

ugo.santalucia

markyone wrote:

Thanks ugo I know you know your stuff.
Going back to the bora 80 they have 18 spokes on the rear,does that mean they are not that strong?

Well, that means that any repair out of warranty will be a headache, that's for sure. If they are stiff enough, strong enough for you, it's hard to say, I don't have experience of them.
Thing is, look how many PRO athletes doing iron man to a certain level use Campagnolo wheels... none. They all use Zipp, Hed, Reynolds, Mavic... general consensus is that those are the fast rims. HED seem to build with a bit of common sense too... They are technically hand build 20/24 but with better rims than Gigantex

markyone

Also just wondered what the braking would be like,
as say with Reynolds grill said they are great.