Bloody GP4000Ss

slowbike

Underscore wrote:

ddraver wrote:

They re lightweight race tyres!! If you want puncture protection then go for the gatorskins.

Interesting. I've found the GP4000S to be more resistant to the fairy than Gators, as well as rolling better. As ever, YMMV but I've now got GP4000S on both summer and winter bikes - both of which are used to commuting.

_

I think it rather depends where you're commuting ...
town roads are often ok whereas country lanes can be a lot worse. Country lanes around here have a lot of flint washed into them - that and the mud from the tractors make 23/25mm slicks a bad idea - I've moved onto 32mm flackjacket tyres for now - but it does seem hard work!

bigmat

Main thing that puts me off GP4000S compared to Rubino Pro (on the commuter) and Ultremo ZX (on the racer) is the price. With a bit of searching you can usually get Rubinos for £15, Ultremos for £20, whereas GP4000S are usually upwards of £25, if not £30. I think Rubinos are probably a bit harder wearing as well so the slight trade off in grip and weight is worth it for the mile-muncher - for the racer the Ultremos are if anything lighter and roll better, have good grip and haven't been that bad for punctures (only had one race ending in a puncture, and that was after hitting a pothole so not convinced a different (23mm) tyre would have helped). So, whilst I think GP4000S are good tyres, they don't justify the premium for me.

okgo

Why you all seem to commute on £60 sets of tyres I have literally no idea. GP4000S are a tough(er) race tyre with soft compound and fairly limited life, I've not had a single flat i two season of racing most weekends on them that includes awful conditions etc.

The key thing is to replace them before they get all cut, they last a fair time before that sets in, but I cannot fault them for that kind of thing. They also have one of the lowest rolling resistances of any tyre on the market.

meanredspider

okgo wrote:

Why you all seem to commute on £60 sets of tyres I have literally no idea. GP4000S are a tough(er) race tyre with soft compound and fairly limited life, I've not had a single flat i two season of racing most weekends on them that includes awful conditions etc.

The key thing is to replace them before they get all cut, they last a fair time before that sets in, but I cannot fault them for that kind of thing. They also have one of the lowest rolling resistances of any tyre on the market.

I'm not sure we're ALL commuting on them. I'm not - far too prone to punctures for that. Because of their alleged low rolling resistance, I used them for L2E (brand new set of 25c) and still got 2 punctures in the 4 days/440 miles. And, TBH, whilst I could measure a difference in average speed between GP4KSs and Gators, I can't between GP4KSs and Rubino Pros. Certainly any time I might save would disappear fixing flats. So I've tried 2 sets on two bikes and found exactly the same issues consistently without any identified benefit so that's me done with them.

andrewc3142

I use GP4000s (23c) on my road bike.

Used for 50 km commute into central London (all conditions, all year round) weekend rides, etc.

Also have them on my fixed and my wife uses them on her road bike (which my son borrowed for a week touring in France this summer).

One puncture between these in the past 6 years, which I don't count as too bad.

Wet and dry grip both fine, roll well, reasonably long-lasting, and look good.

andrewc3142

Why you all seem to commute on £60 sets of tyres I have literally no idea

Why so?

Cycling to work saves £19.40 in train fares each day so I don't reckon the difference to be that significant in the scheme of things.

Underscore

Slowbike wrote:

Underscore wrote:

ddraver wrote:

They re lightweight race tyres!! If you want puncture protection then go for the gatorskins.

Interesting. I've found the GP4000S to be more resistant to the fairy than Gators, as well as rolling better. As ever, YMMV but I've now got GP4000S on both summer and winter bikes - both of which are used to commuting.

_

I think it rather depends where you're commuting ...
town roads are often ok whereas country lanes can be a lot worse. Country lanes around here have a lot of flint washed into them - that and the mud from the tractors make 23/25mm slicks a bad idea - I've moved onto 32mm flackjacket tyres for now - but it does seem hard work!

It does depend. I commute largely along country lanes with lots of flint shards and have found Duranos and GP4000S to be roughly similar in resistance to them but I find Gators cut up (and puncture) more. I haven't tried any Vittoria yet, though I have a friend who swears by them.

Regarding commuting on £60 sets of tyres: I commute by bike primarily because I enjoy it so I'll happily pay more if it adds sufficient to that enjoyment to justify the cost. As has already been pointed out, the cost savings compared to car or train means that I'm in pocket regardless...

_

okgo

meanredspider wrote:

okgo wrote:

Why you all seem to commute on £60 sets of tyres I have literally no idea. GP4000S are a tough(er) race tyre with soft compound and fairly limited life, I've not had a single flat i two season of racing most weekends on them that includes awful conditions etc.

The key thing is to replace them before they get all cut, they last a fair time before that sets in, but I cannot fault them for that kind of thing. They also have one of the lowest rolling resistances of any tyre on the market.

I'm not sure we're ALL commuting on them. I'm not - far too prone to punctures for that. Because of their alleged low rolling resistance, I used them for L2E (brand new set of 25c) and still got 2 punctures in the 4 days/440 miles. And, TBH, whilst I could measure a difference in average speed between GP4KSs and Gators, I can't between GP4KSs and Rubino Pros. Certainly any time I might save would disappear fixing flats. So I've tried 2 sets on two bikes and found exactly the same issues consistently without any identified benefit so that's me done with them.

When pushing on the grip of Rubino's is shocking compared to the Conti, I can wheel spin Rubino's on the flat if its damp, which is very poor.

bigmat

okgo wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

okgo wrote:

Why you all seem to commute on £60 sets of tyres I have literally no idea. GP4000S are a tough(er) race tyre with soft compound and fairly limited life, I've not had a single flat i two season of racing most weekends on them that includes awful conditions etc.

The key thing is to replace them before they get all cut, they last a fair time before that sets in, but I cannot fault them for that kind of thing. They also have one of the lowest rolling resistances of any tyre on the market.

I'm not sure we're ALL commuting on them. I'm not - far too prone to punctures for that. Because of their alleged low rolling resistance, I used them for L2E (brand new set of 25c) and still got 2 punctures in the 4 days/440 miles. And, TBH, whilst I could measure a difference in average speed between GP4KSs and Gators, I can't between GP4KSs and Rubino Pros. Certainly any time I might save would disappear fixing flats. So I've tried 2 sets on two bikes and found exactly the same issues consistently without any identified benefit so that's me done with them.

When pushing on the grip of Rubino's is shocking compared to the Conti, I can wheel spin Rubino's on the flat if its damp, which is very poor.

Yeah, grip is not great on Vittorias in my experience. Have stacked it in a straight line with Rubino beaded, and had wheelspin in the dry with Diamantes. Rubino Pros are good enough for commuting but I'd be wary of attacking corners particularly when wet. Also, inevitably, got a slow front puncture this morning...

meanredspider

okgo wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

okgo wrote:

Why you all seem to commute on £60 sets of tyres I have literally no idea. GP4000S are a tough(er) race tyre with soft compound and fairly limited life, I've not had a single flat i two season of racing most weekends on them that includes awful conditions etc.

The key thing is to replace them before they get all cut, they last a fair time before that sets in, but I cannot fault them for that kind of thing. They also have one of the lowest rolling resistances of any tyre on the market.

I'm not sure we're ALL commuting on them. I'm not - far too prone to punctures for that. Because of their alleged low rolling resistance, I used them for L2E (brand new set of 25c) and still got 2 punctures in the 4 days/440 miles. And, TBH, whilst I could measure a difference in average speed between GP4KSs and Gators, I can't between GP4KSs and Rubino Pros. Certainly any time I might save would disappear fixing flats. So I've tried 2 sets on two bikes and found exactly the same issues consistently without any identified benefit so that's me done with them.

When pushing on the grip of Rubino's is shocking compared to the Conti, I can wheel spin Rubino's on the flat if its damp, which is very poor.

I've never experienced any grip issues with the Pros but, if you do, spend an extra £2 and go for the Evo higher grip version. Interestingly Vittoria make the benchmark pave tyre which really does have amazing grip. GP4KSs grip well in the wet because the pressures are low due to escaping air

DonDaddyD

BigMat wrote:

I certainly wouldn't trade the thousands of puncture free miles I have ridden on reasonably light, nice-rolling tyres for the extra security I might get with some heavyweight puncture proof things.

Interestingly I would say there is very little difference between GP4000s and 4 Seasons - at my speeds (17mph - 20mph). Though I do find it harder to breach 30mph with 4 Seasons.

There is however a wealth of difference between GP4000s and Gatorskins. Gatorskins make my bike feel less sure footed. Where I would plunge my bike into a corner, hit the apex and roar out triumphantly in the damp using GP4000s. I'm gingerly doing so with Gatorskins.

MisterMuncher

Rubinos seem fine in wet or dry, but in changing conditions or recent rain, I've found them a bit sketchy. They seem a little more inclined to slip on ironwork than my previous favourite, Schwalbe Duranos. Still, I'll get the winter out of them before replacement.

fat_tail

I took the plunge recently and bought a pair of Rubino pros as my Gatorskins were looking quite rounded at the back. I have to say I had low expectations as I had a pair of Zaffiros a long time ago that were puncture prone. So far, I have been very impressed with the ride of the Rubinos - I am not sure what 150 tpi means but the ride quality is far better than on Gators. seem grippy as well and no problems with riding in the wet although I still corner quite gingerly as I had a few "moments" on the gators that have put the fear of god into me. Have put in a couple of hundred ks with no visit from the aforementioned pf. fingers crossed.

cyclingprop

TPI = threads per inch in the carcass.

meanredspider

cyclingprop wrote:

TPI = threads per inch in the carcass.

To add - the more the better theoretically: supposedly lower rolling resistance.

Mikey41

I've not had any punctures on my GP4000S so far, and they are nice and quick, love them! When I still had just the one bike, I changed to them after my stock Giant tyres wore out in May and commuted with them for months as well as many leisure rides.

When I got my new bike, I moved them on to that one and (after MRS's recommendation) I put some Rubino Pros on the commuter. Really impressed with them, no punctures, comfortable, good grip. Nice tyre! I feel they are slightly slower than the GP's, but the difference is tiny TBH. When they (eventually) wear out, I'll have another set.

fat_tail

Update on my Rubino Pros. Had a flat today as I was heading up Ranmore Common. I traced it to a cut in the tyre which I suspect would not have been an issue with old Gatorskins. Obviously the tyre is now useless. Buying them was a false economy I think. They do ride well though. Bit of dilemma

meanredspider

fat_tail wrote:

Update on my Rubino Pros. Had a flat today as I was heading up Ranmore Common. I traced it to a cut in the tyre which I suspect would not have been an issue with old Gatorskins. Obviously the tyre is now useless. Buying them was a false economy I think. They do ride well though. Bit of dilemma

I don't really understand. Anything that would have slashed a Rubino open would have trashed pretty much any tyre. The difference is that a Rubino is reasonably price. Chalk it up and buy another one

adam0bmx0

Up until today ive been running these in all weathers!

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/TYV ... low___23mm

and the blurb;

""Corsa EVO KS; The slick racing tubular with differential grip.
• "Hand made" for superior performance and comfort.
• Special latex inner tube for significantly better elasticity and puncture resistance.
• An innovative slick design from Vittoria's constant R&D initiatives:
• 15% roughness centrally, for minimum rolling resistance.
• 30% roughness at the sides for safer cornering.
• New Kevlar® SiO2 3D compound with added silica, for reduced rolling resistance and better grip in the wet.
• New composite Corespun K 290 TPI casing, with mixed Polycotton (cotton and polyester) and Kevlar® threads.

High thread density of 290 TPI (equivalent to over 1,100 threads per decimetre!) ensures maximum comfort even at high inflation pressures. Added Kevlar® means even better cut resistance."

These have been superb, done the summer on them and many wet rides, not one puncture! Great grip, well well light and 15 quid each! Took them off and not a mark on them in terms of cuts/gashes, bought an extra two for when the current ones run out.

Now on GP4KS's to save the Vittorias, didn't notice any difference really.

fat_tail

meanredspider wrote:

fat_tail wrote:

Update on my Rubino Pros. Had a flat today as I was heading up Ranmore Common. I traced it to a cut in the tyre which I suspect would not have been an issue with old Gatorskins. Obviously the tyre is now useless. Buying them was a false economy I think. They do ride well though. Bit of dilemma

I don't really understand. Anything that would have slashed a Rubino open would have trashed pretty much any tyre. The difference is that a Rubino is reasonably price. Chalk it up and buy another one

I didn;t make myself clear. My old Gatorskins have similar cuts in the outer casing but I never had a flat like this. Luckily I was climbing and not descending ! I could "see" my fingers when I ran them around the inside of the tyre (trying to find the offending object).

I think I will stick my old Gatorskins on the front and continue to mull. As I have said, the Rubinos roll lovely and are a great ride (what with the 150 tpi) and I would definitely recommend them on that front. Certainly much nicer than the Gatorskins.

cyclingprop

adam0bmx0 wrote:

High thread density of 290 TPI (equivalent to over 1,100 threads per decimetre!) e

Does anyone actually use decimetres?

ddraver

Most of europe still do deci units.

hegyestomi

cyclingprop wrote:

adam0bmx0 wrote:

High thread density of 290 TPI (equivalent to over 1,100 threads per decimetre!) e

Does anyone actually use decimetres?

I would think most europeans are aware of that but you wouldn't use it like that: it's a marketing pitch to show 1100T/10cm instead of 110T/cm or 11T/mm

cyclingprop

Oh no, I get that - it just sounded bizarre.

Bordersroadie

I use GP4000S's for dry and GP4S for wet. I love the lightness and grippiness of both, but...

The GP4S keep puncturing. They're really thin on the tread and have cut up badly on the dirty wet rural roads. The last puncture has put a split in the tread which has effectively written it off, after only about 500 miles. As a hardwearing winter tyre they are exceedingly poor, in my experience. I'm really disappointed as I wanted to love them.

I do lots of winter night riding and I just can't put up with their unreliability any longer, so after masses of web research I've gone for the "puncture resistance above all else" option and got a pair of Schwalbe Durano Plus. Heavier and slower but at 10pm on a freezing wet night in the middle of nowhere would I rather be potentially stranded looking at an unrepairable GP4S, or be riding home safely?

As a counter to this, my GP4000S's have done 3,000 p-free (almost entirely dry) miles, and look new, I love 'em!

ShandyH

I'm now on Vredestein Fortezza Tricomps. They are superb tyres in the wet. They get a few nicks but what doesn't? Far more assured in the wet than Gatorskins and more hardy than most. Very pleased with them.

slowbike

Bordersroadie wrote:

I use GP4000S's for dry and GP4S for wet. I love the lightness and grippiness of both, but...

The GP4S keep puncturing. They're really thin on the tread and have cut up badly on the dirty wet rural roads. The last puncture has put a split in the tread which has effectively written it off, after only about 500 miles. As a hardwearing winter tyre they are exceedingly poor, in my experience. I'm really disappointed as I wanted to love them.

I do lots of winter night riding and I just can't put up with their unreliability any longer, so after masses of web research I've gone for the "puncture resistance above all else" option and got a pair of Schwalbe Durano Plus. Heavier and slower but at 10pm on a freezing wet night in the middle of nowhere would I rather be potentially stranded looking at an unrepairable GP4S, or be riding home safely?

As a counter to this, my GP4000S's have done 3,000 p-free (almost entirely dry) miles, and look new, I love 'em!

I can counter - my GP4Seasons did about 1000 miles of country lanes last Oct/Nov without a fault - they've carried on and given me about 3500 miles with just a couple of punctures.
I have taken them off for this winter though as they're now getting towards the end of their life and a bit thin plus I had a set of 32mm flackjacket tyres available to use up ... they are heavier and (slightly) slower - but like you, I'd rather be on the move at night rather than repairing a puncture.

fat_tail

ShandyH wrote:

I'm now on Vredestein Fortezza Tricomps. They are superb tyres in the wet. They get a few nicks but what doesn't? Far more assured in the wet than Gatorskins and more hardy than most. Very pleased with them.

these look good - now at the top of list as potential replacement.

Sewinman

Another vote for Rubino pros!

ShandyH

fat_tail wrote:

ShandyH wrote:

I'm now on Vredestein Fortezza Tricomps. They are superb tyres in the wet. They get a few nicks but what doesn't? Far more assured in the wet than Gatorskins and more hardy than most. Very pleased with them.

these look good - now at the top of list as potential replacement.

Unless you're unlucky with what you ride over, I'm pretty sure you won't be disappointed if you go for them.