Foot Angle on Pedal - Calf issues?

Gav888

Hi ya,

You will have to excuss the correct termanology as I am not sure what its called, but basically I have been having inner calf ache for a long time. When looking from behind at the calf there are 3 main parts to the calf, inner side, outer side and middle bit (gastrocnemius and soleus) its the inner side facing your other leg, and this is on both calfs.

I have chatted to various fitting experts and played around with my fit no end but I just cannot sort this issue out, but I was thinking this morning that it might be related to my foot/shoe position on the pedal or the pedal itself.

Here are my thoughts, please correct me if this is wrong.

So looking front on at someone and then raising your heel a bit so your foot is in a more natural bike shoe position, so your standing (or sitting) with your heels slightly off the ground and feet pointing straight out in front of you, if you now rotate your feet outwards, so basically the outside edge of your feet / little toe are on the ground and your big toe in the air.

For me, doing this aches the inner side of my calf muscle quite a lot.

If you now rotate your feet the other way, so try and lift the out side edges of your feet in the air, so basically little toe up and big toe down, I then feel this on the outer side of my calf muscle.

Now, what I am thinking is that whilst pedalling my foot is rotating outwards too much which is causing the calf ache on the inner side of the muscle. When pedalling it does feel like more pressure is on the outer side of the foot rather than in the middle.

To correct this, would moving the pedals further from the BB allow my foot to inwards a bit making my foot more central in the shoe, if you know what I mean? So for example if raise the inner side of your feet and hold them there, then move your feet apart a bit as your lower leg moves out the foot flattens out.

I have measured the pedals on my winter bike, which usually feels ok with my calves, and my summer bike - which doesnt, and the only difference is the winter bike has the pedals roughly 5mm further away from the BB compared to the summer bike, all ther measurements are the same, so im wondering if the summer bike has the pedals too close to the BB causing my feet to rotate out a little causing this calf aching?

What do you think?

I could try adding 5mm worth of spacers to the pedal making it further out to test, but assuming it does work and you guys dont think im mental can you buy longer arms for the pedals? I am using Shimano 105's at the moment and they dont look like they can be changed and I wouldnt feel too comfortable riding all the time with spacers fitted as only half the thread would be used....

mmacavity

http://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bik ... -are-best/

Speedplay do different length pedal axles.

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2012/10/a-cha ... dy-pruitt/

Gav888

Thanks, that confirms the Shimano ones dont have adjustable axle's....

Do you think that could be my issue though before replacing my pedals/cleats to speedplays?

Big_Ring_Rider

Could be a whole host of reasons. Do you have a leg length discrepancy in your thigh bone? If so, you could consider shimming the cleat. Or trying a footbed which will neutralise the natural position of your foot when pedaling. These should fit your Shimano pedals too:

http://www.sigmasport.co.uk/item/Specia ... tAoddFgABQ

There are cheaper alternatives/potential remedies to your problem than switching to Speedplay pedals, but Speedplay certainly have the most scope for adjustment.

Gav888

Cheers, didnt know those extenders existed... I will check them out.

Regarding a leg length discrepancy in your thigh bone, what would the symptoms of something like that be?

Gav888

Ive just found the termanology I was looking for.... so, do I need to increase my q-factor on my summer bike to make it the same as my winter bike, its roughly 5mm smaller. Would that make a difference?

Big_Ring_Rider

Difference or not, in my mind/experience it shouldn't be causing your calf to rotate out, that would be more in relation to cleat position and set up and the natural alignment of your foot. Now, if your calf is rotating out, is that bringing your knee in towards the top tube?

Gav888

My knees did go in a bit when pedalling towards the top tube most of the time but I added small pads under the inside of my shoe insoles so now they go up and down most of the time, maybe a bit in still under heavy load.

Big_Ring_Rider

Without being able to see to the eye and physically assess it Gav, it is a difficult one. Getting that hip, knee and ankle alignment right is a tricky and potentially complex subject. Have the bike fitters you've spoken to suggested cycling orthotics? 90% of people have a varying foot alignment to some degree. Just out of interest, what shoes are you wearing? The same for both bikes?

Gav888

Cheers Big_Ring_Rider, they always an issue when giving advice on forums....

No one has mentioned orthotics, but I will look into it. As for my shoes, they are Shimano R086 and using the yellow Shimano cleats, and same setup on both bikes, 105 pedals on both, although one set is black and the other silver so could be this lol

mamba80

Surely it has to be the Q Factor if both bikes have the same pedal systems and saddle in relation to BB and crank length ? and that is the only difference.

You can buy insoles with different wedge angles that tilt the foot in or out but it would be easier to replicate the winter fit to the summer bike or you may just substitute one lot of probs for another.

Gav888

Hi Mamba80, I have copied the winter fit to my summer bike exactly and that is how I spent most of Spring/Summer, riding at first was fine on the bike but the calf ache was a very gentle niggle to start with since swapping bikes, so I ignored it, that got worse and worse as the hours/intensity crept over the weeks/months until come end of August and I had to stop riding for a while as it was too bad to carry on, then I was on and off for weeks and have been resting completely off the bike for the last 3 weeks and 2 days...

I have swapped saddles as part of my process just to be sure, the only thing I had thought about doing is swapping the crankset.... but that is a lot of messing about just to test it.

The other issue I have is due to the calf ache I have I wont know for a while if anything has fixed it so I was planning to rest until healed fully, then use the Winter bike for a few months then try the Summer one and see.

mmacavity

Look made a pedal with adjustable Q factor, plus adjustable cant tilt etc.

http://www.lookcycle.com/media/catalog/ ... le_3_4.pdf

Q factor sometimes called stance-width

mfin

Gav888 wrote:

My knees did go in a bit when pedalling towards the top tube most of the time but I added small pads under the inside of my shoe insoles so now they go up and down most of the time, maybe a bit in still under heavy load.

You might have done something you don't need to here, I wouldn't wedge the shoes just to stop knees from coming in to the top tube (cos that in itself is not a problem, it's natural for some people), unless there is a physical symptom like pain etc... you could cause/ have caused other problems.

To paraphrase, I don't think bike fitters would say 'well your knees are coming in so lets wedge the shoes' it's normally done cos there's a proven varus or there's a pain on the outside of the knee-ish area. (Note, I could be wrong, but I am just giving you a thought I had).

dennisn

Not sure how to say this, but because you want to ride a bike doesn't mean that a part or parts of your body will stand up to the stresses required to push the pedals. I'm not saying you won't find a so called "cure" by experimenting with various pedals, cleats, position, etc. All I'm saying is that sometimes bodies just don't respond well to the stresses required to participant in certain sports. i.e. Bunches of people are out there who would love to run but can't because of feet, knee, and or hip problems and no amount of experimenting with various shoes, etc. is going to help them.
Hope this is NOT your case but if all else fails.......

Gav888

Cheers guys,

I've been riding for about 4 years now, nothing structured really until this year, plus its my 2nd summer on the carbon bike, last year I remember having some calf issues but nothing this bad... I suspect the extra volume this year has made it a lot worse than last year, but prior to 2012 I only had my winter bike and it was fine on the calfs....

mfin, those wedges were something I added to stop the knee in, only in the last couple of months really, no knee issues before adding them and no issues after adding them (with the knee's) but they made no different on the calfs either with or without them... I have since taken them out.