Engerland

laurentian

Well, finished top of the group, undefeated and, despite being unable to defeat Montenegro away, have qualified for Brazil.

I sense a more realistic and tempered expectation than that experienced with other recent tournaments . . . what would been seen as success in Brazil?

napoleond

No rioting.

the playing mantis

no roasting

seanoconn

A couple of games ago, I'd given up all hope for England but with their new attacking flair, genious Roy Hodgson at the helm, the arrival of Andy Townsend, the fat kid pulling the strings, Stevie G coming back into form, my expectations are high!

Semi finals or better

the playing mantis

get you facking car flag ready...

RideOnTime

I wouldn't rush out and get a Brazilian in anticipation. If you were thinking that...

seanoconn

When have they ever let us down?

Keep Lampard (100+ caps! How!) and any Arsenal players well away from the team and we're onto a winner

daviesee

Which part of the media will be first to tout them as serious contenders to win it?

Note I said media as the manager, players and fans know better.

Heading the bet's is The Sun.

Pross

laurentian wrote:

Well, finished top of the group, undefeated and, despite being unable to defeat Montenegro away, have qualified for Brazil.

I sense a more realistic and tempered expectation than that experienced with other recent tournaments . . . what would been seen as success in Brazil?

Oh dear, you really haven't worked out how the British (English) media works have you? From now until next summer they will gradually be building up England's chances until everyone* believes that they are red hot favourites. Then when the inevitable happens and England return home there will be the usual national mourning followed by calls for Hodgson to go and a load of radio phone ins where people with no participation in any sport at any level pontificate on what went wrong which will inevitably come down to the fact that it is all to do with greedy players and foreigners.

* Well, that large proportion of the public who believe whatever their toilet paper of choice tells them without question.

cornerblock

seanoconn wrote:

Lampard (100+ caps! How!)

Well the simple fact is he has been one of the three best English midfielders in the past ten years, Gerrard and Scholes being the others. There is also the fact that he has always turned up for his country and never been one of those to cry off with a convenient 'knock' when England had a meaningless friendly only to suddenly recover in time to play for his club at the weekend.

Nor did he give up on his country unlike one of the other best English midfielders of the same era, Paul Scholes.
Had Scholes not given up playing for his country then maybe Frank Lampard would not have reached 100 caps, but Lampard didn't give up when he was asked to play in a different role for his country or dropped. Not even when he was being abused and booed by so called England fans.

Lampard is one of seven players, and the only midfielder, to have scored 150 or more goals in the Premier League. He is second in the Premier League's all-time assists table with 94 assists. He has had over 1,400 successful passes and 10 or more assists every season. In 2005, Lampard was voted FWA Footballer of the Year and was runner-up in both the FIFA World Player of the Year and the Ballon d'Or. In 2010 he received the FWA Tribute Award. On 23 December 2009, he was named the Premier League's player of the decade by official statistics.

He has scored 29 (would have been 30 but for useless officials!) international goals. He was voted England Player of the Year for two consecutive years in 2004 and 2005. He played in Euro 2004, where he was named in the team of the tournament after scoring three goals in four games. He was top scorer for England in their 2006 World Cup qualifying campaign with five goals. He is England's most prolific penalty taker with nine goals, surpassing the previous record holders, Ron Flowers and Alan Shearer.

I think that is how.

the playing mantis

indeed woy will go after we crash out so unexpectedly in the qf's.

the same thing will happen forever more, until there is a sea change in youth football. kids playing 11 a side on full size or nearly full size pitches, the win at all costs mentality at age group football and the prizing of pace and power of bigger kids over skills will continue to hold english football back.

the pitch issue is slowly changing, but too slowly. the mentality is the issue, in kids football it is the bigger kids, who have grown quicker than their peers who are often picked more and dominate. when everyone catches up and their advantage is gone those players dont have the skills to compete.

its like my rugby team at school. all we did was chuck the ball to the big overdeveloped kid who steamrolled the oppo. this worked a treat from 13-16 unless the oppo had a bigger overdeveloped kid which was rare, but after that everyone caught up physically and our tactics were shot as the big kid wasnt the big kid anymore and we were cack at the game itself.

daviesee

Well, That didn't take long. The Sun lost out to The Guardian.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/201 ... -world-cup

Note that the headline skews what Roy actually says.

meursault

Getting to the KO stage, and getting youngsters tournament experience. Like an earlier poster said, stop picking Lampard and trying to get Scholes out of retirement. Take a chance on youth, build for future.

seanoconn

Cornerblock wrote:

seanoconn wrote:

Lampard (100+ caps! How!)

Well the simple fact is he has been one of the three best English midfielders in the past ten years, Gerrard and Scholes being the others. There is also the fact that he has always turned up for his country and never been one of those to cry off with a convenient 'knock' when England had a meaningless friendly only to suddenly recover in time to play for his club at the weekend.

Nor did he give up on his country unlike one of the other best English midfielders of the same era, Paul Scholes.
Had Scholes not given up playing for his country then maybe Frank Lampard would not have reached 100 caps, but Lampard didn't give up when he was asked to play in a different role for his country or dropped. Not even when he was being abused and booed by so called England fans.

Lampard is one of seven players, and the only midfielder, to have scored 150 or more goals in the Premier League. He is second in the Premier League's all-time assists table with 94 assists. He has had over 1,400 successful passes and 10 or more assists every season. In 2005, Lampard was voted FWA Footballer of the Year and was runner-up in both the FIFA World Player of the Year and the Ballon d'Or. In 2010 he received the FWA Tribute Award. On 23 December 2009, he was named the Premier League's player of the decade by official statistics.

He has scored 29 (would have been 30 but for useless officials!) international goals. He was voted England Player of the Year for two consecutive years in 2004 and 2005. He played in Euro 2004, where he was named in the team of the tournament after scoring three goals in four games. He was top scorer for England in their 2006 World Cup qualifying campaign with five goals. He is England's most prolific penalty taker with nine goals, surpassing the previous record holders, Ron Flowers and Alan Shearer.

I think that is how.

Lampard club form, character and number of caps for England, should be indicative of greatness.

All credit to Lampard for being a good egg and making himself available but not worthy of what 100 caps for your country would suggest.

Mikey23

Job done. Pretty good considering they aren't the most talented bunch around. The boss has done a pretty good job and they are starting to look like a team rather than a bunch of prima donnas.

Second tier chances but who knows. My guess is through the group stage, 0-0 to somebody and losing on penalties (hopefully not Germany), with Rooney again not living up to his overpriced reputation...

CHRISNOIR

I don't like football. I don't (usually) watch football. I don't care about football. So I was a little surprised to find myself watching the game last night, really enjoying it and even shouting 'GET IN!' when Gerrard scored.

Haven't got a clue who half the players are though. And how long have we been letting young children play for the national side? I'm sure some of their mums were worried about them being up so late.

the playing mantis

you sir, are the spawn of the devil.

im sure your really a very nice chap.

mattyoung1990

Completely agree with Cornerblock. Lampard has been one of the best performers for club and country over the past 10 years.

Now how well will England do? Depends on our group! Don't forget we're not top seeds anymore so could end up with Brazil/Germany/Spain in our group. Then, if we finish 2nd we'll have to play the winners of another group. Could be in for some very tough games! Group of Death?

cornerblock

seanoconn wrote:

All credit to Lampard for being a good egg and making himself available but not worthy of what 100 caps for your country would suggest.

Well if there is another English player out there who has scored over 200 top flight goals at club level, from midfield!!! There's strikers out there that would love to boast that record, 29 for his country and untold assists then I'm sure he would have been noticed and picked for England and thereby denied Lampard some of his caps. The fact is there hasn't been, that might be a sad reflection on the amount of quality players produced by England in the past 10 years but should not be used as a stick to beat Lampard.

Now you could argue a case that Lampard has never produced to the same level as he does for his club, but that is an accusation that can be thrown at most, if not all England players. Probably why we've always underachieved.

I also find some people's views of England players get's a bit clouded by club loyalties.

seanoconn

Cornerblock wrote:

seanoconn wrote:

All credit to Lampard for being a good egg and making himself available but not worthy of what 100 caps for your country would suggest.

Well if there is another English player out there who has scored over 200 top flight goals at club level, from midfield!!! There's strikers out there that would love to boast that record, 29 for his country and untold assists then I'm sure he would have been noticed and picked for England and thereby denied Lampard some of his caps. The fact is there hasn't been, that might be a sad reflection on the amount of quality players produced by England in the past 10 years but should not be used as a stick to beat Lampard.

Now you could argue a case that Lampard has never produced to the same level as he does for his club, but that is an accusation that can be thrown at most, if not all England players. Probably why we've always underachieved.

I also find some people's views of England players get's a bit clouded by club loyalties.

I'm an AFC Wimbkedon fan, I have no club loyalties concerning England

Yes I would argue that Lampard has never produced the same level for England and that the management often didn't have the balls to drop him.

Tom Butcher

I tell you what, why don't we all spend the time between now and the world cup saying how we have no chance, in fact not even worth watching is it.

Ffs football isn't supposed to be about realism, of course we aren't amongst the top favourites but we have a chance, an outside chance but a chance, if people want to focus on that rather than the negatives why not that's the whole point.

The truth is England fans have never gone into a tournament since maybe 1970 building themselves up as big favourites - still it's fashionable to pretend we've got unrealistic expectations - funny thing is it's always present company excepted.

cornerblock

seanoconn wrote:

I'm an AFC Wimbkedon fan, I have no club loyalties concerning England

Yes I would argue that Lampard has never produced the same level for England and that the management often didn't have the balls to drop him.

You could say the same about Gerrard, or any other England player of the same era. Why single out Lampard? Who has been shown to be the most consistent English player in that period. Oh I see AFC Wimbledon. Is this a geographical thing, cos' he plays for the big rich neighbour!

Pross

Tom Butcher wrote:

The truth is England fans have never gone into a tournament since maybe 1970 building themselves up as big favourites - still it's fashionable to pretend we've got unrealistic expectations - funny thing is it's always present company excepted.

Not sure about that. Maybe 'proper' fans haven't but the press and bandwagon jumpers certainly have. People were talking about a 'golden generation' 10 years or so ago and even in the build up to South Africa there was talk of England being amongst the favourites.

the playing mantis

seanoconn wrote:

Cornerblock wrote:

seanoconn wrote:

All credit to Lampard for being a good egg and making himself available but not worthy of what 100 caps for your country would suggest.

Well if there is another English player out there who has scored over 200 top flight goals at club level, from midfield!!! There's strikers out there that would love to boast that record, 29 for his country and untold assists then I'm sure he would have been noticed and picked for England and thereby denied Lampard some of his caps. The fact is there hasn't been, that might be a sad reflection on the amount of quality players produced by England in the past 10 years but should not be used as a stick to beat Lampard.

Now you could argue a case that Lampard has never produced to the same level as he does for his club, but that is an accusation that can be thrown at most, if not all England players. Probably why we've always underachieved.

I also find some people's views of England players get's a bit clouded by club loyalties.

I'm an AFC Wimbkedon fan, I have no club loyalties concerning England

Yes I would argue that Lampard has never produced the same level for England and that the management often didn't have the balls to drop him.

sean is this you?

the playing mantis

Tom Butcher wrote:

Ffs football isn't supposed to be about realism, of course we aren't amongst the top favourites but we have a chance, an outside chance but a chance, if people want to focus on that rather than the negatives why not that's the whole point.

quote]

not sure about that either. most football fans are longsuffering and always moaning.

daviesee

Tom Butcher wrote:

Ffs football isn't supposed to be about realism, of course we aren't amongst the top favourites but we have a chance, an outside chance but a chance, if people want to focus on that rather than the negatives why not that's the whole point.

Yeah!
Thats what you need.
An English Ally MacLeod.

daviesee

Tom Butcher wrote:

The truth is England fans have never gone into a tournament since maybe 1970 building themselves up as big favourites - still it's fashionable to pretend we've got unrealistic expectations - funny thing is it's always present company excepted.

Yeah!
Its been a long, long time. Maybe 4 years?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... -year.html

Or maybe only 2 years?
http://www.theguardian.com/football/201 ... nd-ukraine

seanoconn

Cornerblock wrote:

seanoconn wrote:

I'm an AFC Wimbkedon fan, I have no club loyalties concerning England

Yes I would argue that Lampard has never produced the same level for England and that the management often didn't have the balls to drop him.

You could say the same about Gerrard, or any other England player of the same era. Why single out Lampard? Who has been shown to be the most consistent English player in that period. Oh I see AFC Wimbledon. Is this a geographical thing, cos' he plays for the big rich neighbour!

Hey! We're rich, just not in a financial sense.

This really isn't a Chelsea thing, another 100 capper, Ashley Cole, may be a tw@t but is also a great player and unfortunate to play for such a poor International team. Gerrard hasn't bossed International games in the fashion he has for his club but I'd pick him ahead of Lampard every time. Just my personal opinion that Lampard is very fortunate to be 8th on the most caps list.

meursault

Cornerblock wrote:

seanoconn wrote:

I'm an AFC Wimbkedon fan, I have no club loyalties concerning England

Yes I would argue that Lampard has never produced the same level for England and that the management often didn't have the balls to drop him.

You could say the same about Gerrard, or any other England player of the same era. Why single out Lampard? Who has been shown to be the most consistent English player in that period. Oh I see AFC Wimbledon. Is this a geographical thing, cos' he plays for the big rich neighbour!

Don't get the Lampard love in, he has been a passenger for the last thirty or forty England games I have watched. Who cares what he has done for club? He gets well overpaid for that.

secretsam

Cornerblock wrote:

seanoconn wrote:

Lampard (100+ caps! How!)

Well the simple fact is he has been one of the three best English midfielders in the past ten years, Gerrard and Scholes being the others.

Scholes was in a different class to both Gerrard and Lampard. Those two are very "English" CM players - box to box types (especially Frank). Scholes was a more Zidane-like player who could run a game and had the ability to do the unexpected - as well as get sent off for insane acts of violence on occasion

IIRC, Zizou picked Scholes as the best English player of his generation, and the only one that could walk into any team in Europe.

For me, the player who really made a difference last night was the much-maligned Carrick, who was at the heart of most of England's best moves.

And our biggest loss in the last few years has been losing Hargreaves to injury, as he was world class in his position and would have been an absolute cert in the starting XI, playing as a DMF.

raymondo60

Cornerblock wrote:

seanoconn wrote:

Lampard (100+ caps! How!)

Well the simple fact is he has been one of the three best English midfielders in the past ten years, Gerrard and Scholes being the others. There is also the fact that he has always turned up for his country and never been one of those to cry off with a convenient 'knock' when England had a meaningless friendly only to suddenly recover in time to play for his club at the weekend.

Nor did he give up on his country unlike one of the other best English midfielders of the same era, Paul Scholes.
Had Scholes not given up playing for his country then maybe Frank Lampard would not have reached 100 caps, but Lampard didn't give up when he was asked to play in a different role for his country or dropped. Not even when he was being abused and booed by so called England fans.

Lampard is one of seven players, and the only midfielder, to have scored 150 or more goals in the Premier League. He is second in the Premier League's all-time assists table with 94 assists. He has had over 1,400 successful passes and 10 or more assists every season. In 2005, Lampard was voted FWA Footballer of the Year and was runner-up in both the FIFA World Player of the Year and the Ballon d'Or. In 2010 he received the FWA Tribute Award. On 23 December 2009, he was named the Premier League's player of the decade by official statistics.

He has scored 29 (would have been 30 but for useless officials!) international goals. He was voted England Player of the Year for two consecutive years in 2004 and 2005. He played in Euro 2004, where he was named in the team of the tournament after scoring three goals in four games. He was top scorer for England in their 2006 World Cup qualifying campaign with five goals. He is England's most prolific penalty taker with nine goals, surpassing the previous record holders, Ron Flowers and Alan Shearer.

I think that is how.

You sir, have made an excellent case for Mr Lampard which cannot be denied. Whether he should go to Brazil is up for debate considering his age and the likely conditions out there, but you cannot deny or belittle his achievements - he is and has been a fantastic professional - I am not a Chelsea supporter.