Plebgate
Yellow Peril
Posts: 4,466
Poor show by some of the boys in blue. It's a shame as there are plenty of hard working honest cops out there. It just makes their job more difficult.
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In what way?? You really believe the politicians view of things over that of 3 serving police officers. From what i've read - it sounds like a typical case of the policitician using his influence to make himself look whiter than white and to find a scapegoat (or 3)
Frankly i still think the (probably corrupt) politician did EXACTLY as the cops reported0 -
I don't care if he called them plebs or not.
The political sh*tstorm is the problem here. Every time anyone does anything the calls for sacking and resignation is ridiculous.You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.0 -
This could get interesting.
Who do you trust?
Policemen who have been proven to have lied, or a pompous self serving politician?None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
Have they been 'proven' to have lied...? I didn't realise the enquiry was at an end.
My understanding is that the Cops leaked the incident to the press as they had no faith in the Police hierarchys willingness to take on the Government and any sort of whistleblowing policy about the incident being covered up.
If that is wrong, so be it.0 -
Learning some of the facts of the case may have helped you be less misinformed.Wirral_Paul wrote:In what way?? You really believe the politicians view of things over that of 3 serving police officers. From what i've read - it sounds like a typical case of the policitician using his influence to make himself look whiter than white and to find a scapegoat (or 3)
The incident relates to an interview undertaken by three officers from the Police Federation that took place after the plebgate incident. The officers, who were at the forefront of a campaign against police cuts, then misinformed members of the press they had assembled outside the meeting as to Andrew Mitchell's explanation of events to besmirch Mr Mitchell's character and force him out of his job. Unbeknownst to the officers, Andrew Mitchell recorded the conversation which showed beyond any doubt that the officers had lied.0 -
it is a massive power struggle
In the blue corner you have mason affiliated plebs, who probably did go to college but were unable to mix with society and therefore became police
In the red corner you have mason affiliated Oxbridge "old boys" who did go to uni, but due to their family's standings did not mix with society and therefore became politicians
the coppers should not be in that job and rich people should not be in charge.... the only answer is to "shoot them all and let god decide"0 -
BillyMansell wrote:Learning some of the facts of the case may have helped you be less misinformed.
The incident relates to an interview undertaken by three officers from the Police Federation that took place after the plebgate incident. The officers, who were at the forefront of a campaign against police cuts, then misinformed members of the press they had assembled outside the meeting as to Andrew Mitchell's explanation of events to besmirch Mr Mitchell's character and force him out of his job. Unbeknownst to the officers, Andrew Mitchell recorded the conversation which showed beyond any doubt that the officers had lied.
You're referring to the three Police Federation reps then - whereas i was referring to the officers at the gate. Two different incidents - and frankly I still feel that Andrew Mitchell said what the officers at the gate reported.
The Fed Officers - yes they are bang out of order and should face disciplinary action and not allowed to represent the Police Federation again at the very least0 -
Except there is irrefutable evidence to show that the officers at the gate have lied also.Wirral_Paul wrote:BillyMansell wrote:Learning some of the facts of the case may have helped you be less misinformed.
The incident relates to an interview undertaken by three officers from the Police Federation that took place after the plebgate incident. The officers, who were at the forefront of a campaign against police cuts, then misinformed members of the press they had assembled outside the meeting as to Andrew Mitchell's explanation of events to besmirch Mr Mitchell's character and force him out of his job. Unbeknownst to the officers, Andrew Mitchell recorded the conversation which showed beyond any doubt that the officers had lied.
You're referring to the three Police Federation reps then - whereas i was referring to the officers at the gate. Two different incidents - and frankly I still feel that Andrew Mitchell said what the officers at the gate reported.
I'm not wanting to defend Andrew Mitchell but the police should be beyond reproach yet they have been found to have failed, as is far too frequent the case, their responsibility and duty of upholding the law in these two instances.0 -
Wirral_Paul wrote:In what way?? You really believe the politicians view of things over that of 3 serving police officers. From what i've read - it sounds like a typical case of the policitician using his influence to make himself look whiter than white and to find a scapegoat (or 3)
Frankly i still think the (probably corrupt) politician did EXACTLY as the cops reported
bet you wouldnt if he wasnt a tory boy0 -
Daz555 wrote:I don't care if he called them plebs or not.
The political sh*tstorm is the problem here. Every time anyone does anything the calls for sacking and resignation is ridiculous.
nail on head. who actually cares, is it the end of the world? the man on the styreet doesnt actually give a toss, if anything its funny. its just typical media, and not just liberal media, band wagon jumping on a unimportnat issue.
to a certain extent its the same as leveson and all the phone hacking BS, i really dont care about any of it and neither does anyone i know but its been turned into a massive s*itstorm.0 -
Police dabbling in politics and fixing their evidence to cover their ar*es? Surely not. Like they didn't over hillsborough, Stephen Lawrence, Jose ... Chappy who got shot etc etc etc.. I'm getting a tad more cynical about the police these days0
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Wirral_Paul wrote:...and frankly I still feel that Andrew Mitchell said what the officers at the gate reported.
Do you also believe that the crowd of onlookers outside Downing St were shocked at the outburst? 0 -
Sadly this follows in a long line of issues involving the police and their integrity.
Hillsborough, Jean Charles De Menezies, the G20 (Tomlinson), the list goes on.
The problem is that the general public now see the police as above the law, they can do whatever they want and can cover it up at will.
Something needs to be done to make them more accountable. In my eyes there needs to be a big change in how these things play out. I'm sick and tired of seeing people (and to be fair this isnt just the police) who are guilty of severe negligence, criminal activity, perverting the course of justice etc etc who simply resign and are allowed to go on with their lives, still receiving pensions etc. Its a joke. Until this changes, and the public perceive that the police and others in authority are correctly held to account the public perception will continue to get worse.
In this particular case, some police officers colluded to ruin the career of a democratically elected politician. Their superiors deemed that these people should not face any kind of disciplinary hearing or anything else - surely there can be no justification for this apparent white wash. Its clear, and the IPCC report agrees, that this was done with political motivation in mind which is abhorrent, and those guilty of this should be held to account correctly , with dismissal the ultimate sanction
People need to be correctly held to account, and this needs to happen right across the spectrum of those serving in public office (where ever that may be), in order to improve public perceptions of the police and those in authority.0 -
Plus one for lack of accountability... The couple of dealings I've had with them recently has left me wondering who's side they are actually on0
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Entertaining, the way the officers rep on the news tonight kept repeating that they were being subject to 'trial by media' blimey, and that's not not what they did to Mitchell? As Mikey says, makes you just a tad more cynical! Funny to watch them squirm, found out and desperate to pass the buck, well what a surprise......0
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Got £10000 for charity, so some good came out of it
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bi ... m-223970360 -
And those naughty policeman have got to come back to Westminster and apologise. And yet another enquiry at taxpayers expense0
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the playing mantis wrote:Daz555 wrote:I don't care if he called them plebs or not.
The political sh*tstorm is the problem here. Every time anyone does anything the calls for sacking and resignation is ridiculous.
nail on head. who actually cares, is it the end of the world? the man on the styreet doesnt actually give a toss, if anything its funny. its just typical media, and not just liberal media, band wagon jumping on a unimportnat issue.
to a certain extent its the same as leveson and all the phone hacking BS, i really dont care about any of it and neither does anyone i know but its been turned into a massive s*itstorm.
I don't care what he called them, and you are right, outside the political bubble nobody else cares either. Unfortunately, several police officers have been shown unable to produce an accurate account of the occurrence and their integrity is therefore to be questioned.
As regards the Leveson BS, I agree nobody cares. We get the press we deserve. If tittle tattle and gossip didn't sell, people like Hugh Grant wouldn't be targeted to see if he had been whoring again.0 -
Sorry. I care, that a group of police officers appear to have embellished a story that an MP called them plebs when the evidence is contrary to that claim and that subsequently three senior police met the MP face to face and then decided to misrepresent what had been said in that meeting, all with the aim of discrediting him and having him removed from his job. I care that the police appear to have taken it upon themselves to decide who should be sacked from senior political roles, and find it acceptable to lie to achieve that end. I may be old fashioned but this isn't the sort of country that allows police to be arbiters of who sits in government, and where they lie to do that. You're allowed not to care or to find it amusing and unimportant. Happens that I don't.Ballysmate wrote:nail on head. who actually cares, is it the end of the world? the man on the styreet doesnt actually give a toss, if anything its funny. its just typical media, and not just liberal media, band wagon jumping on a unimportnat issue.0 -
Why do the media have to put 'gate' at the end of any kind of public scandal? It gets on my t*ts!0
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Titsgate.None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0
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CiB wrote:
Sorry. I care, that a group of police officers appear to have embellished a story that an MP called them plebs when the evidence is contrary to that claim and that subsequently three senior police met the MP face to face and then decided to misrepresent what had been said in that meeting, all with the aim of discrediting him and having him removed from his job. I care that the police appear to have taken it upon themselves to decide who should be sacked from senior political roles, and find it acceptable to lie to achieve that end. I may be old fashioned but this isn't the sort of country that allows police to be arbiters of who sits in government, and where they lie to do that. You're allowed not to care or to find it amusing and unimportant. Happens that I don't.Ballysmate wrote:nail on head. who actually cares, is it the end of the world? the man on the styreet doesnt actually give a toss, if anything its funny. its just typical media, and not just liberal media, band wagon jumping on a unimportnat issue.
Humbly suggest you go back and look at what I actually posted.
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At this point I don't care what was and what wasn't said. I do, however, care that the police will make up rules on the spot to suit themselves and throw their weight around. Mitchel had a right to go through the road gates, as a road going vehicle.
Remember R v Caden, where police charged a cyclist for blocking traffic because he took up the correct position on approach to a roundabout?
Give them a celeb then they can't help themselves. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... ntzen.html
Try complaining about a motorist's threatening behaviour without video and see how far you get.To err is human, but to make a real balls up takes a super computer.0 -
This thread is hilarious. A whole profession slammed off the back of a political power struggle. The Tories are doing everything they can to make the pleb gate story 'fit'. It's their prerogative, they want to justify their deranged reforms which are to cut costs and create an 'officer class'.
I'm not defendingn the Police Fed, they are a shower of shit and many coppers who pay into it feel absolutely devastated that they have handles it in the way they have. For the record they are not media trained, and the 3 that embellished the interview with Mitchel are not senior, they are junior supervisors. No senior copper would get involved as it would prevent them from climbing the ladder.
The IPCC are being manipulated into changing their findings. It all stinks and I have sympathy with the general public having to put up with this shit on the News everyday. It's class warfare and people on here should be more reasoned, what's to say that 'no mandate Dave' won't I for your industry next. Energy companies? NHS? Finance.
One final note. Anyone you work with in your nice air conditioned office ever been murdered at work?
Ever have the shit kicked out of you, and had to race against time to get 'fit' before you pay drops to half and you're out of a home?Madone 4.9 2014
Jeffsy 27.5 20180 -
velogee wrote:This thread is hilarious. A whole profession slammed off the back of a political power struggle. The Tories are doing everything they can to make the pleb gate story 'fit'. It's their prerogative, they want to justify their deranged reforms which are to cut costs and create an 'officer class'.
I'm not defendingn the Police Fed, they are a shower of shoot and many coppers who pay into it feel absolutely devastated that they have handles it in the way they have. For the record they are not media trained, and the 3 that embellished the interview with Mitchel are not senior, they are junior supervisors. No senior copper would get involved as it would prevent them from climbing the ladder.
The IPCC are being manipulated into changing their findings. It all stinks and I have sympathy with the general public having to put up with this shoot on the News everyday. It's class warfare and people on here should be more reasoned, what's to say that 'no mandate Dave' won't I for your industry next. Energy companies? NHS? Finance.
One final note. Anyone you work with in your nice air conditioned office ever been murdered at work?
Ever have the shoot kicked out of you, and had to race against time to get 'fit' before you pay drops to half and you're out of a home?
Speaking for myself, I have not slammed any entire profession at all. If you look at what I actually posted and not the misquote by CiB, I have said that the integrity of individual officers has been questioned. As you yourself point out, the Fed reps embellished an interview. They brought this shitstorm on themselves. You may have valid grievances regarding the conditions of service, but unfortunately, it would appear that it is these individual police offers that are trying to make the story fit.
Incidentally, the rank of the officers concerned is immaterial and at what point does embellishment become dishonesty.
For the record, I am not anti police, quite the opposite in fact. But the public's faith in the police in general is shaken when it is shown that they have behaved inappropriately and then refuse to accept it. Everyone makes mistakes, individuals and public bodies. Failure to admit their mistakes diminishes their standing.0 -
Resorting to mocking those you whose views you may not agree with only shows a significant weakness in your character.velogee wrote:This thread is hilarious. A whole profession slammed off the back of a political power struggle.
As for suggesting people are slamming the whole profession off the back of this case, unfortunately like the officers in this case you have chosen to misrepresent the information given as other injustices have been presented but like this case the evidence has been recorded in this thread to evidence your view of people judging the police on this single event is wrong.
So rather than discuss the case you have to create a ridiculous straw man? Come on, let's have a grown up discussion rather than resorting to such silly rhetoric.One final note. Anyone you work with in your nice air conditioned office ever been murdered at work?0 -
http://youtu.be/vB9JgxhXW5w
