Strong wheels for bad roads

birodas

Hi,

I am retiring my commuting and winter rear wheel: mavic CXP33 rims and shimano 105 hub and 32 spokes. The freehub paws are sticky and the rim walls are dangerously thin. The previous CXP33 I had also lasted me 4 years until the rim became too thin.

I could have another indentical wheel built but am also tempted by cheaper factory wheels: fulcrum, shimano 501 and RS21/31, Easton EA50/70, Aksium, etc... I have never used modern 24 spoke wheels and am I worried that these might be too flimsy for the rural roads I ride. On the other hand some such as the mavic Aksium come with sealed cartridge bearings which should reduce the faff of maintaining shimano cup and cones (I hate repacking the hubs mid winter in my freezing garage).

Me+bike+luggage is around 80 kg and I ride mostly rural norfolk roads under all kinds of weather.

Thanks,
t.

maddog 2

handbuilts + a good 25mm tyre (GP4Seasons)

marcusjb

You weigh nothing.

I'm the same, even lighter most of the time.

You'll pretty much get away with anything within reason.

If you want to be cautious go handbuilt and do something like 28/32 - this is what I run most of the time for pretty high mileage without issues. The reality is I could get away with an even lighter build - but I need the reliability more.

In terms of hubs/rims etc. - depends on budget really. I can only advise that I run Royce, Hope, Schmidt hubs and Ambrosio and H Plus Son rims, all without issues.

birodas

For the past 12 years I have also been riding handbuilt wheels. Anyone recommending really reliable under £200 factory wheelsets?

ugo.santalucia

You might find the wheels you mentioned very dead feel and really nothing special... crap is the word I was looking for, I think

majormantra

If you really want factory wheels I'd look at the offerings from Campag or Fulcrum. I suspect handbuilts would serve you better though.

47p2

Fulcrum Racing 7 are tough enough to cope with everyday roads and at £115 they are not expensive

birodas

OK, I will look into the Fulcrum 7 but it seems that things haven't changed that much with low end factory wheels since since last I went shopping for wheels.

Is the CXP 33 still a good choice for a reliable rim or as it become hopelessly supassed by ligher, stronger models?

Thanks to all,
t.

ugo.santalucia

birodas wrote:

OK, I will look into the Fulcrum 7 but it seems that things haven't changed that much with low end factory wheels since since last I went shopping for wheels.

Thanks to all,
t.

Au contraire... they got cheaper and worse... Aksium used to be pretty good and now they're horrible... Fulcrum 7 same, Ksyrium Equipe awful...

me-109

I've just picked up a set of RS21s in the Merlin Cycles sale. Fancied the RS31s but the weight put me off. I'm not that big so hopefully the lack of spokes will not give me any flex issues, though in the back of my mind is a little worry about the deflection from a broken spoke. Not that I've had one of this for many a year (touching wood here).

snipsnap

Also looking at some rs21s from merlin to replace the stock wheels on my Sensa Romagna after I discovered a huge gouge in the rim of the rear wheel this morning. Yikes!

Just after a cheapo wheel set as hoping to apply the n+1 rule and pick up a new cervelo r3 in the new year. These wheels will keep me ticking over in the interim. Will be getting some wheels built up for the new bike when it's bought......

Rs21s are preferable to the Planet X model Bs? I weigh similar to the OP and the roads round here are crap........

buckles

birodas wrote:

Hi,

I am retiring my commuting and winter rear wheel: mavic CXP33 rims and shimano 105 hub and 32 spokes. The freehub paws are sticky and the rim walls are dangerously thin. The previous CXP33 I had also lasted me 4 years until the rim became too thin.

I could have another indentical wheel built but am also tempted by cheaper factory wheels: fulcrum, shimano 501 and RS21/31, Easton EA50/70, Aksium, etc... I have never used modern 24 spoke wheels and am I worried that these might be too flimsy for the rural roads I ride. On the other hand some such as the mavic Aksium come with sealed cartridge bearings which should reduce the faff of maintaining shimano cup and cones (I hate repacking the hubs mid winter in my freezing garage).

Me+bike+luggage is around 80 kg and I ride mostly rural norfolk roads under all kinds of weather.

Thanks,
t.

Is this a trolling post? I fail to see the problem. You have been using decent quality wheels that have lasted four years? Where is the problem?

If you think maintaining cup 'n' cone bearings is a faff wait until you have to replace cartridge bearings every six months! I thought cup 'n' cone hubs were a pain until I actually started using them, and realised they are far less faff than cartridge bearings. Simply clean out and re-grease every year... 30 mins, job done. Cost £0. Cartridge bearings = £10 per wheel, + waiting time for mail order unless you buy in advance, take slightly less time to replace than it does to clean & regrease loose bearings, but gone again in 6 months...

Stick with the quality wheels.

cycleclinic

80kg is nothing although a rack put extra load on the rear that is not seen by the front. Still I weight that (and abit more) and ride on 28 spoke rears with very light rims, thin gauge spokes on the rural roads of Suffolk and Norfolk and essex too. I do not get an issue. Tyre width has a bit to do with that.

Still A good rim like the velocity A23, Velocity Deep V or H plus son archetype in 24 front and 28 rear would be fine for you. More spokes never hurts though. Maybe the Ambrosio evolution or if you want cheap the rigida chrina. My wife commuting wheels are Chrina rims on Miche hubs 32 spokes 8000 odd miles and still going strong.

As for replacing cartridge bearings every six months no you don't with good ones. With some lightweight taiwanese hubs that maybe the case but with even with cheaper Miche hubs you get 8000 miles+ from the bearings. I use these on my winter bike and the bearings run and run. When they go I will replace with INA or maybe NTN bearings and get even longer life.

Hope use cartridge bearingd and so do Royce neither of these are know to have bearings that wear out quickly.

Still cup and cone hubs are good I like them and use them myself (XT M737, XTR and Dura Ace 7403) as well as cartridge bearing hubs. My favourite road hub - Campagnolo Record - is cup and cone.

MichaelW

New freehub and cones, new rim, re-use the spokes if they are OK.
Cup and cone bearings should last the whole winter if you pack plenty of grease in to keep the crud out. Racers may prefer sparse amounts for better rolling but that saves you less time than a mid-winter repack will take.

cycleclinic

Racers tend not to use 105 hubs so it not an issue. The OP may have some hub wear. Also reusing spokes is fine but if the OP has worn the rims out he may know he has done 20000 miles in which case re using spokes means spoke failure sooner rather than later.

brearley

fulcrum racing one. I had a collision with a van which ended up snapping my frame in half, the front wheel hit the van first but stayed dead straight. I ride mine to work over some of the worst roads imaginable and they stay true and strong. probably the most bombproof wheels I've used along with the Campagnolo shamals also.

ugo.santalucia

brearley wrote:

fulcrum racing one. I had a collision with a van which ended up snapping my frame in half, the front wheel hit the van first but stayed dead straight.

It's just luck... there are plenty of stories like this... they don't mean anything, every crash is different... maybe next time you lightly hit the kerb, dent the rim and have to ditch the wheel instead

buckles

thecycleclinic wrote:

As for replacing cartridge bearings every six months no you don't with good ones. With some lightweight taiwanese hubs that maybe the case but with even with cheaper Miche hubs you get 8000 miles+ from the bearings.

Well, 8000 miles is about 6 months of riding for me.

How Far is too Far

Got a pair of Ksyrium Elites with 10k miles on them. Never had a bearing changed or a spoke key on them

cycleclinic

8000 miles in 6 months is good going but still replace the JBL bearing in miche hubs with INA or NTN and longer life will be seen. Cup and cone hubs though do some make sence for very high milegae riders like you but they have to be high end one 105 minium but ultegra or DA/ampag record are even better.

birodas

Thanks for everyone's experiences. The other man's grass is always greener and the everyone else's low spoke count wheels seem cheaper, ligher and lower maintanance :-)

I will have a look at the rims mentioned and probably stick to 105 hub and keep servicing it twice a year.

t.

Moonbiker

Slight hijack but on the same topic

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_952587_langId_-1_categoryId_242554

I have this rear wheel open pro & 105 hub 32h & have broken 3 spokes in 6 months. Know people running factory wheels cheap & low spoke who seem to not break spokes like me its not fair....

I weigh 75kg

Tempted to buy & switch to fulcrums 7's if the spokes break again...

Am I just unlucky or got a dodgy wheel?
At least with 32h though when the spokes break wheels stays mostly true so not noticing they have broken usually until I reach home, on a 24 spoke wheel when you break one would the bike be unridable?

Would switching tyre width to 25c or even 28c from 23c on the rear help at all?

Current have rubino pro 2 23mm tyres.

ugo.santalucia

Moonbiker wrote:

Slight hijack but on the same topic

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_952587_langId_-1_categoryId_242554

I have this rear wheel open pro & 105 hub 32h & have broken 3 spokes in 6 months. Know people running factory wheels cheap & low spoke who seem to not break spokes like me its not fair....

I weigh 75kg

Tempted to buy & switch to fulcrums 7's if the spokes break again...

Am I just unlucky or got a dodgy wheel?
At least with 32h though when the spokes break wheels stays mostly true so not noticing they have broken usually until I reach home, on a 24 spoke wheel when you break one would the bike be unridable?

Would switching tyre width to 25c or even 28c from 23c on the rear help at all?

Current have rubino pro 2 23mm tyres.

You have a crap build, that's all... or you have done 20,000 miles and it's time for a rebuild

buckles

Moonbiker wrote:

Slight hijack but on the same topic

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_952587_langId_-1_categoryId_242554

I have this rear wheel open pro & 105 hub 32h & have broken 3 spokes in 6 months. Know people running factory wheels cheap & low spoke who seem to not break spokes like me its not fair....

I weigh 75kg

Tempted to buy & switch to fulcrums 7's if the spokes break again...

Am I just unlucky or got a dodgy wheel?

The problem is that it takes more to build a wheel than simply assembling some parts. The person building the wheel needs some basic knowledge of how to build wheels (I wouldn't say I'm a good wheelbuilder at all, just fairly competent at following instructions). I built the same wheels as you about 18 months ago - Mavic Open Pro, 32 double butted spokes, 105 hubs, 23c tyres - and I weigh the same as you do. Yet despite doing 2-300 miles a week, having numerous, cringeworthy, pinch flat-inducing pothole slams and numerous sprint sessions, none of my spokes have broken. Unfortunately I can't say the same for a similar hand built 32 spoke rear wheel that has seen a fraction of the mileage and suffered far less abuse, but was built by someone else.

I recommend buying wheels from a reputable wheel builder rather than a national automotive chain, or learn to build them yourself. As for your current wheel perhaps get it rebuilt by someone who knows what they're doing.

Moonbiker wrote:

At least with 32h though when the spokes break wheels stays mostly true so not noticing they have broken usually until I reach home, on a 24 spoke wheel when you break one would the bike be unridable?

Would switching tyre width to 25c or even 28c from 23c on the rear help at all?

Current have rubino pro 2 23mm tyres.

I've broken a spoke on a 24 spoke wheel and only had to loosen my rear brake. There is frame clearance for up to 32c tyres though so the story might have been different if I had a frame with very little tyre clearance.

I don't think increasing your tyre width would make a difference other than to help cushion impacts, but as I've already alluded to, it sounds like your spokes are breaking due to the wheels not being built properly rather than from impacts...

cycleclinic

If I were to assemble a wheel and get it sort of round and straight and call it done like some do it will break spokes quickly. Instead builders who spends time stress relieving and evening out spoke tensions will build wheels that are reliable. Handbuilt is only good if it is done by someone who knows and cares about what they are doing. Why do you think factory wheels are so popular. There quality is at least consistent. Next go to a proper wheel builder for a non factory option. Someone who cares.

huuregeil

thecycleclinic wrote:

If I were to assemble a wheel and get it sort of round and straight and call it done like some do it will break spokes quickly. Instead builders who spends time stress relieving and evening out spoke tensions will build wheels that are reliable. Handbuilt is only good if it is done by someone who knows and cares about what they are doing. Why do you think factory wheels are so popular. There quality is at least consistent. Next go to a proper wheel builder for a non factory option. Someone who cares.

Indeed! The only other thing to point out is that "someone who cares" could also be you - if you're reasonably mechanically adept it's quite feasible to build high quality wheels yourself. I reminded myself of this this morning as I fitted my winter wheels, which were the first set of wheels I built and are going strong into their 5th season....