New Handbuilt Wheels for a Larger Guy

Pouts

Hello All,

I am after a little advice to finally make a decision on which Wheels to go for.

I have trawled through loads of posts on here regarding handbuilt wheels and the most suitable ones for a larger chap.

I weigh in at 17stone and use my bike primarily for weekend and evening rides upto about 50 miles. I have recently broken the Shimano R500s that came with my tiagra equipped Cube Peloton Pro 2013 after approx 1000 miles.

I think I have narrowed down my choice to two different wheelsets. These are the H Plus Son SL42 and also the Archetype. I have approached various reputable wheelbuilders who have been mentioned on here and had slightly conflicting opinion on the suitability of the Archetypes for someone of my size. I must note that all who have responded to my queries have been very helpful and that is much appreciated as I have never bought wheels before.

Of the 2 rims which would you say we're best for me. I have been quoted between £265 and £300 for the two sets based on shimano 105 hubs and Sapim race spokes in either silver or black.

Which should I go for?

Many thanks

Ben

sloppyschleckonds

HED Ardennes

wishitwasallflat

I had the same problems but probably worse as I was well 20 stone plus when I started cycling and wrecked several sets of factory built wheels - I now 18. After going through much the same process of research and advice seeking as you describe I went for

36 Hole 105 Hubs on Mavic Open Pro rims built by Harry Rowland. Harry chose the spoke type which I know is Sapim but can't recall exact type. They cost £250 inc P&P.

I have now had them for about a year and have done well over 3.5k miles on them, in all weathers or rough roads with occasional short jaunts on rough (non tarmac) tracks with my kids with zero problems (yes zero problems!). I have serviced the hubs twice replacing BBs and grease and its easy and quite a pleasant way to spend a few hours. My only regret with these wheels is that I wish I had opted for a rim which has a clear wear indicator as Open Pros don't so I have to check them from time to time for wear.

Ugo did recommend for me, as did several others, and the one clear and consistent thing from all the advice I got was to get wheels with 36 spokes front and rear. Good luck!

cycleclinic

The H plus son SL42 is a very deep rim and very heavy. This rim mainly get used for aerodynamics or by those that want the look of a very deep rim or those who need a rim that will have close to zero flex. This sort of rim though is not nice to ride week in week out, it is too heavy and it will deaden the feel of the bike. The reason why the archetype has been suggested for you is that it is available in 36 spoke count and stiff so it can handle powerful riders (you could be a 17 stone ruby player with thighs like pistons). It is also wide so your tyres will take up a more width which is good as heavier riders should ride wider tyres (greater the load the higher the presure or the wider the tyre needs to be).

The open Pro is a light rim and in my mind is fine for sub 100kg riders but I tend to use it for lighter rider still. It works well for heavier rider too but no Open Pro build can ever be described as stiff and if you are a 17 stone ruby player with thighs like pistons you possibly will be able to get a 36 spoke wheel with Open Pro rim to flex a bit too much. The same spoke count/hubs/spokes with an archetype rim will show much less flex.

The Ambrosio Evolution is better alternative to the Open Pro for the OP I think. A heavier (about the same weight as the archetype) but shallower if that is prefered. It is not a stiff though.

105 hubs have been suggested as they 1) low cost 2) very durable and take side loads well. Hubs like the Miche Primato/racing box will also work well but 105 hubs in this case are perfect. My mess with that.

For your front wheel though a 32 spoke rim is all that is needed there is not as much load on the front, the rear though is best kept at 36 spokes.

troj

Is the Ambrosio's FCS 28 rim an option for a bigger rider?

cycleclinic

Yes that rim would work but it is 530g so again quite heavy. Given the rims mentioned above a re 1) stiff enough 2) come in 36H drillings 3) lighter) and 4) will take 17 stone riders all day long why use a rim that is heavier than needed? I am not trying to suggested weight weenie options but neither should a wheel be heavier than needed. No reason which is why I had not suggested it.

ugo.santalucia

I have built the FCS 28 rims once and upon request.... they are nice, if a bit heavier, compared to similar rims. Problem is I had to import them from Italy, as I could not find them anywhere in the UK... so comes the time for a replacement for any reason, it might be a bit trickier to get one.

I have built also the SL42... it's not the lightest rim, but apparently it rides very well... the guy is up there with the best in the Box hill challenge on this forum...

meagain

Are there no 40H rims these days? Long ago, 32F and 40R were used so that the spoke count almost exactly mirrored what was considered the ideal F/R weight distribution of 45%/55%.

ugo.santalucia

meagain wrote:

Are there no 40H rims these days? Long ago, 32F and 40R were used so that the spoke count almost exactly mirrored what was considered the ideal F/R weight distribution of 45%/55%.

As you said, long ago... there are some tandem specific rims with high drill count, but there is virtually no market for anything above 36

meagain

Shame. Not all old thinking is wrong!

ugo.santalucia

meagain wrote:

Shame. Not all old thinking is wrong!

No, you are right... but modern rims are consistently better than old ones and are very happy with lower spoke counts. A modern solid rim with 28 holes can run with a broken spoke without jamming, for instance.

That said I like 36 rims... they can be laced in many ways, including fancy ones like 3 leading-3 trailing

Pouts

Thank you to all for taking the time to post your responses although still getting conflicting advice from two wheel gurus on the ride of SL42s!!!

Would love to hear from anyone who is riding either set or even better has experience of both (you can but ask!)?

Thanks again...

Pouts

One more question..., my crude Maths tells me that the SL42s would be approx 300gs heavier due to the deep rims...

Am I really likely to notice a performance difference at my already considerable weight...

I guess the extra weight in the rim will have an effect?

ugo.santalucia

Pouts wrote:

One more question..., my crude Maths tells me that the SL42s would be approx 300gs heavier due to the deep rims...

Am I really likely to notice a performance difference at my already considerable weight...

I guess the extra weight in the rim will have an effect?

If you have the clearance for 27 mm tyres, get the Archetype and fit some big Vittoria Pave' 27... heavenly ride... otherwise your weight might result in damage to the wide side wall of the rim if you hit a hole.
I don't think the SL 42 is much heavier than saying a Cosmic SL rim or some Chinese carbon clinchers that people rave about. I normally build Velocity deep V for heavier riders, but it's "only" 30 mm deep.

cycleclinic

Chinese carbon rims come in (50mm deep clinchers) at arround 500g. I do not know the weight of the Mavic Comic SL rim but I suspect around 550g. The SL42 is what 615g claimed. I have never weighed one as I do not see the point, it is not a weight consious rim.

While your 17 stone weight does mean saving weight on the wheels make a small overall difference to your overal weight lighter rims do feel better to ride. Heavy rims feel kind of dead what I mean by that is the higher moment of intertia makes the wheels slower to change direction and slower to accelerate. This is the case no matter what your weight but the effects will be more noticeable for lighter riders.

Regardless of your weight the SL42 is kind of over kill. The SL42 should get picked if you want a really deep alloy rim for the look, you want a fairly aerdynamic wheel, you want an incredably stiff wheel or you want a heavy wheel to train on. You do not need the rim just because you are 17 stone there are others that will do the job just fine and will be alot lighter.

What ugo says about the archetype is true but just avoid the holes. Or use a narrower rim or what used to be standard width rim like the Ambrosio evolution fpr a shallow rim or for that deep look the velocity Deep V -500g and 30mm deep and 36H drilling what not too like. That what I would do anyway.

OCDStevo

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I have built the FCS 28 rims once and upon request.... they are nice, if a bit heavier, compared to similar rims. Problem is I had to import them from Italy, as I could not find them anywhere in the UK... so comes the time for a replacement for any reason, it might be a bit trickier to get one.

I have built also the SL42... it's not the lightest rim, but apparently it rides very well... the guy is up there with the best in the Box hill challenge on this forum...

I love my FCS 28's, thank you Ugo

They are heavy, but the only real difference I've noticed from these to my old Giant PR-2's is that they DO NOT flex at all whilst the PR-2's really worried me when I got out the saddle and tried to put some effort in as they felt as if they were folding in half at times

cycleclinic

The flex issue in your PR-2 wheels may be been down insufficent spoke tension though causing the NDS spoke to to loose tension and thus wheel stiffness more than half giving that folding feeling. They also have radial spokes on the NDS rear if I remember right which can lead to the spoke unwinding and then the wheel going out of true.

Pouts

One other final option....Would the Kinlin xr 300 be any good.

I definitely like the look of the deeper rims....

Will make a decision tomorrow as desperate to get back out on the bike and need some wheels!!!

Thank you all for your advice to date...

cycleclinic

The XR-300 is a light stiff rim but only come in drillingis up to 32H. I only stock 20H, 24H and 28H though as I do not see the point in the 32H version for what these rims get used for. So I am afriad the only 30mm deep rim that comes in the drilling you need is the Velocity Deep V. The DT Swiss RR585 is another possibility but is available in drilling up to 32H only. Still it is so stiff that it won't flex. However it is very heavy 585g so not a favourite but it has it's place in training wheels for sprinters.

ugo.santalucia

You've had plenty of advice from builders and from users, if you can't make up your mind, let your builder choose for you.
The problem is that typically people want everything: the durable bearings, the light hubs, the flashy deep rims... but light, the black bladed spokes, the low spoke count, the radial construction, the aerodynamics, the comfort and of course the reasonable price tag and this is simply not possible, at any budget.
You have to go one way or another and thinking too hard won't go anywhere

OCDStevo

thecycleclinic wrote:

The flex issue in your PR-2 wheels may be been down insufficent spoke tension though causing the NDS spoke to to loose tension and thus wheel stiffness more than half giving that folding feeling. They also have radial spokes on the NDS rear if I remember right which can lead to the spoke unwinding and then the wheel going out of true.

That does sound like what I was experiencing. The wheels had been back to my LBS twice previously for loose spokes\truing and needed to go back again
To be honest, I'd had enough and decided to get new wheels. I was pretty much in the same situation as the OP as the new wheel world is a little confusing for the novice, but decided I wanted something a little different and a lot stronger for my own peace of mind, so choose the FCS 28's.

I'd say any of the options mentioned by the resident experts would be good, you just need to pick the one you like the look of most \ best fits your budget.

MickTheMove

This wheel malarkey is very complex!!, after much deliberation/guessing, i have ordered a pair of Archetype rims, Ultegra 10/11 6800 hubs and PSR 1422 aero spokes (32),

I am hoping they are OK for a guy just over 16st! And hoping i am not overpaying!?!

i went for Grey rims after seeing ugos site, shame the wheelbuilders on here are so far away.

wishitwasallflat

MickTheMove wrote:

This wheel malarkey is very complex!!, after much deliberation/guessing, i have ordered a pair of Archetype rims, Ultegra 10/11 6800 hubs and PSR 1422 aero spokes (32),

I am hoping they are OK for a guy just over 16st! And hoping i am not overpaying!?!

i went for Grey rims after seeing ugos site, shame the wheelbuilders on here are so far away.

Why did you guess about this ?? Ugo may not build and deliver anymore (sadly) but Harry Rowland does and his reputation is faultless and predates many many others (I've read posts where Ugo recommends him!). Also Wheelsmith, Strada and Just Riding Along never seem to get anything but praise.

If I was you I would cancel the guess order and get what Harry recommends = no guess just quality wheels that will be right for you.

ugo.santalucia

wishitwasallflat wrote:

Ugo may not build and deliver anymore (sadly) .

I do build wheels, but I am trying to keep everything local as it works better for me. I also think the benefit of having hand built wheels is that you can pop in and get them fixed locally when you crash, which believe me, it happens! Of course, if you live in a remote area you have no choice and I occasionally deliver, when there isn't an obvious alternative locally

wishitwasallflat

ugo.santalucia wrote:

wishitwasallflat wrote:

Ugo may not build and deliver anymore (sadly) .

I do build wheels, but I am trying to keep everything local as it works better for me. I also think the benefit of having hand built wheels is that you can pop in and get them fixed locally when you crash, which believe me, it happens! Of course, if you live in a remote area you have no choice and I occasionally deliver, when there isn't an obvious alternative locally

Sorry I meant doesn't deliver - I thought you were strict on that one but good to hear not necessarily (I am still hankering after that set you recommended for me way back )

Pouts

Thank you to all for your excellent advice, have finally gone for the Archetypes.

They should be ready by next weekend.

Can't wait to get out on the bike now!