Tub Woes

petemadoc
petemadoc Posts: 2,331
edited October 2013 in Workshop
Another flat today on my way to a hill climb, tufo extreme didn't work :(

When I got home I pulled the tyre off the rim and it took a lovely sheet of carbon fibre with it on a small section.

What can I do about this? I was thinking just sand it down a little to smooth it out.

This is my first season on tubs and I'm starting to think it's more hassle than it's worth. Cleaning cack off the rims is a nightmare and in reality if you puncture out on the road you can not get back to full racing confidence like you can with clinchers. Sealant is hit and miss and using the spare you can't give it full beans. I don't want to have to drive to every TT or race. Feeling a bit deflated about tubs right now, doesn't Tony Martin ride clinchers or something?
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Comments

  • napoleond
    napoleond Posts: 5,992
    You're using Tufos. There's yer problem.
    Insta: ATEnduranceCoaching
    ABCC Cycling Coach
  • petemadoc
    petemadoc Posts: 2,331
    Tufo extreme sealant for a botch on the road repair, not tufo tyres. I mean eugh tufo tyres are pretty minging, the wheels had some fitted when I bought them, felt like hard plastic.

    Tyre was a vittoria corsa SC

    Incidentally the Veloflex I've had have been pretty good, not a single puncture, I got the corsa SC on sale but if I stick with tubs it'll be Veloflex all the way.
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    You can buy carbon repair kits online - I've used a repair kit from Carbonology which contains resin and carbon filler which I've used to repair a number of wheels, including repairs the specialist repair folks wouldn't touch.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • napoleond
    napoleond Posts: 5,992
    PeteMadoc wrote:
    Tufo extreme sealant for a botch on the road repair, not tufo tyres. I mean eugh tufo tyres are pretty minging, the wheels had some fitted when I bought them, felt like hard plastic.

    Tyre was a vittoria corsa SC

    Incidentally the Veloflex I've had have been pretty good, not a single puncture, I got the corsa SC on sale but if I stick with tubs it'll be Veloflex all the way.

    Phew!!
    Insta: ATEnduranceCoaching
    ABCC Cycling Coach
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    If you're going to ride to events on tubs, you have to accept that the risk of puncturing on the way is the same, if not potentially higher, than clinchers. In your situation, I would probably use clinchers instead.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    Yes, sand it down, most likely it's a very thin layer, not a big deal at all... if it is a thick chunk, then see if there is a problem with these specific rims.
    This time of the year Vittoria SC are a bit OTT, you'll pick up a puncture every other ride.

    PS: when you spent all that time removing old glue, are you sure you did not damage the rim or use solvents and stuff? At the time I did say not to bother
    left the forum March 2023
  • petemadoc
    petemadoc Posts: 2,331
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Yes, sand it down, most likely it's a very thin layer, not a big deal at all... if it is a thick chunk, then see if there is a problem with these specific rims.
    This time of the year Vittoria SC are a bit OTT, you'll pick up a puncture every other ride.

    PS: when you spent all that time removing old glue, are you sure you did not damage the rim or use solvents and stuff? At the time I did say not to bother

    It is a very thin bit, just a few fibres.

    I used some "goo gone" on the rims, it worked really well. Are you thinking this stuff could damage the carbon.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    PeteMadoc wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    Yes, sand it down, most likely it's a very thin layer, not a big deal at all... if it is a thick chunk, then see if there is a problem with these specific rims.
    This time of the year Vittoria SC are a bit OTT, you'll pick up a puncture every other ride.

    PS: when you spent all that time removing old glue, are you sure you did not damage the rim or use solvents and stuff? At the time I did say not to bother

    It is a very thin bit, just a few fibres.

    I used some "goo gone" on the rims, it worked really well. Are you thinking this stuff could damage the carbon.

    Possibly, if they say don't mix grease with carbon fibre, they should also add don't mix aggressive chemicals with carbon fibre. I don't know what's in that product, maybe you can read the label. Normally oven cleaning products contain alkali.
    The moral is: leave the glue alone, it's not a good idea trying to remove it at all costs for the sake of having a prettier rim
    left the forum March 2023
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    Goo Gone/Sticky Stuff Remover is citrus based. Zipp recommend this and pure acetone on their carbon rims.
  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 17,435
    as above, leave the glue until you really really have to remove it

    then, to take it off schwalbe glue remover is the best, safe on rims and very easy to use

    white spirit is safe, but needs a bit more effort, it's also good for getting any wayward glue off the brake tracks etc.

    afterwards, degrease with acetone

    general purpose glue removers usually have a mix of ingredients, some may not be epoxy friendly

    if there're areas where the rim surface has pulled away and fibres are exposed then either the rim has been damaged by the remover or the rim was just faulty, you could try... degrease with acetone, allow to dry, then paint very thinly with epoxy to restore the surface (work it in well to fill voids, then wipe with a plastic gloved finger to leave it smooth)
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Imposter wrote:
    If you're going to ride to events on tubs, you have to accept that the risk of puncturing on the way is the same, if not potentially higher, than clinchers. In your situation, I would probably use clinchers instead.

    Not following your "potentially higher" idea. Is this your opinion(i.e. you heard somewhere) or can you back it up with at least a fact or two?
  • petemadoc
    petemadoc Posts: 2,331
    Thanks guys, I've shown it too a local wheel builder and he's said the damage is very superficial, easily fixed. I'm going to persevere with tubs but maybe only for races I drive too and for sunny strava hunting.

    Might have to invest in some nice clinchers :)
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    dennisn wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    If you're going to ride to events on tubs, you have to accept that the risk of puncturing on the way is the same, if not potentially higher, than clinchers. In your situation, I would probably use clinchers instead.

    Not following your "potentially higher" idea. Is this your opinion(i.e. you heard somewhere) or can you back it up with at least a fact or two?

    Go troll somewhere else. I've got no interest in debating semantics with you.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Imposter wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    If you're going to ride to events on tubs, you have to accept that the risk of puncturing on the way is the same, if not potentially higher, than clinchers. In your situation, I would probably use clinchers instead.

    Not following your "potentially higher" idea. Is this your opinion(i.e. you heard somewhere) or can you back it up with at least a fact or two?

    Go troll somewhere else. I've got no interest in debating semantics with you.

    Oh, c'mon now. Why are tubulars more flat prone than clinchers? It's a fair question. :?
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Being wise-after-the-event !
    If its a HC then i d have just put the spare on and pumped it up to full pressure (hopefully you could burrow a t/pump at the event) even a non glued tub is pretty hard to roll and HC's dont have super fast corners in them.
    Now you ve put sealant in a latex tub (that didnt fix the puncture) its not really repairable anymore - the sealant will glue the latex tube together as its flat now.
  • racingcondor
    racingcondor Posts: 1,434
    dennisn wrote:
    Oh, c'mon now. Why are tubulars more flat prone than clinchers? It's a fair question. :?

    It is a fair question but you won't get Imposter to admit that it was a dumb (and incorrect) statement.

    OP - Vittoria Corsa's at this time of year are asking for trouble. I'd either mount some Vittoria Pave / Veloflex Arenberg/Roubaix or bag the wheels up for winter and accept that until it dries out and the roads are clear of rubbish you'll have to make some compromises.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    racingcondor wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    Oh, c'mon now. Why are tubulars more flat prone than clinchers? It's a fair question. :?

    It is a fair question but you won't get Imposter to admit that it was a dumb (and incorrect) statement.

    OP - Vittoria Corsa's at this time of year are asking for trouble. I'd either mount some Vittoria Pave / Veloflex Arenberg/Roubaix or bag the wheels up for winter and accept that until it dries out and the roads are clear of rubbish you'll have to make some compromises.

    You know what the funny thing is? Claiming I made a 'dumb, incorrect statement' (which I didn't) in your first sentence - and then in your second para, going on to effectively validate what I originally said. Now that's 'proppa' dumb.... :lol:
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    PeteMadoc wrote:
    Tufo extreme sealant for a botch on the road repair, not tufo tyres. I mean eugh tufo tyres are pretty minging, the wheels had some fitted when I bought them, felt like hard plastic.

    Tufo sealant works very well with Tufo tires. Not sure if it's intended or even designed to fix a standard tubular. My impression is that since the whole Tufo tire is essentially the tube(they are tubeless) that there is more surface area for sealant to work with. i.e. the entire thickness of the tire as oppossed to just a thin tube.

    In any case, I ride Tufo 700-25 tubular clinchers and wouldn't trade them for the world. Smooth ride, super convenient, any kind of sealant works great with them, super easy off and on. I also use Tufo tubulars without issue.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    racingcondor wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    Oh, c'mon now. Why are tubulars more flat prone than clinchers? It's a fair question. :?

    It is a fair question but you won't get Imposter to admit that it was a dumb (and incorrect) statement.

    Ya got that right. I thought I was bad in lots of my posts but this guy, well,....

    He reminds me of why I strive to keep up with my med's. :wink:
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    dennisn wrote:
    Ya got that right. I thought I was bad in lots of my posts but this guy, well,....

    He reminds me of why I strive to keep up with my med's. :wink:

    Maybe you could pull-up 'racingcondor' for his comment below? Whaddaya say Dennis?
    racingcondor wrote:
    OP - Vittoria Corsa's at this time of year are asking for trouble. I'd either mount some Vittoria Pave / Veloflex Arenberg/Roubaix or bag the wheels up for winter and accept that until it dries out and the roads are clear of rubbish you'll have to make some compromises.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Imposter wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    Ya got that right. I thought I was bad in lots of my posts but this guy, well,....

    He reminds me of why I strive to keep up with my med's. :wink:

    Maybe you could pull-up 'racingcondor' for his comment below? Whaddaya say Dennis?
    racingcondor wrote:
    OP - Vittoria Corsa's at this time of year are asking for trouble. I'd either mount some Vittoria Pave / Veloflex Arenberg/Roubaix or bag the wheels up for winter and accept that until it dries out and the roads are clear of rubbish you'll have to make some compromises.

    Sounds to me like "racingcondor" is suggesting using a heavier and or thicker tire during the winter months. OK by me. Not a bad idea. A lot more crap on the road then.
  • racingcondor
    racingcondor Posts: 1,434
    I'll explain it for the hard of thinking. Vittoria Corsa's whether clincher or tub aren't good winter tyres as they're paper thin race tyres. That said a tubular vittoria corsa is less likely to flat than a clincher version.

    What I'm suggesting is that a Pave or an Arenberg would be a better choice of tub at this time of year.

    It's really not difficult.
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    racingcondor wrote:
    I'll explain it for the hard of thinking. Vittoria Corsa's whether clincher or tub aren't good winter tyres as they're paper thin race tyres. That said a tubular vittoria corsa is less likely to flat than a clincher version.

    What I'm suggesting is that a Pave or an Arenberg would be a better choice of tub at this time of year.

    It's really not difficult.
    Imposter wrote:
    If you're going to ride to events on tubs, you have to accept that the risk of puncturing on the way is the same, if not potentially higher, than clinchers. In your situation, I would probably use clinchers instead.

    Congratulations on saying exactly what I said - but in many more words and considerably more insults. Maybe you should have another read of what I wrote earlier, and tell me exactly which bit you thought was dumb? Incidentally, why would the tub version of the corsa be less likely to puncture if it ran over the same piece of glass as the clincher version?
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Imposter wrote:
    racingcondor wrote:
    I'll explain it for the hard of thinking. Vittoria Corsa's whether clincher or tub aren't good winter tyres as they're paper thin race tyres. That said a tubular vittoria corsa is less likely to flat than a clincher version.

    What I'm suggesting is that a Pave or an Arenberg would be a better choice of tub at this time of year.

    It's really not difficult.
    Imposter wrote:
    If you're going to ride to events on tubs, you have to accept that the risk of puncturing on the way is the same, if not potentially higher, than clinchers. In your situation, I would probably use clinchers instead.

    Incidentally, why would the tub version of the corsa be less likely to puncture if it ran over the same piece of glass as the clincher version?

    Cause tubulars are better. :P
  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 17,435
    ^^^this
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    My year round tubs are Conti sprinter or Pave's. As I ride to local TT's I will not risk a racing tub. I would not even use racing tubs in summer as I do not have an event car following me. The solution I have is to carry a spare tub + pitstop even on a TT as I do not like to walk. For training rides I will go out with a two spare tubs and some pitstop.

    With tubs don't go out unprepared as you will get miffed as the OP. Tubs require a bit of dedication but it is worth it and as for removing glue from rims why bother it is still glue leave it on apply another layer so it become tacky again and layer to the new tub and fit.

    It is shame for while this thread descended into shouting war.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    thecycleclinic wrote:
    For training rides I will go out with a two spare tubs and some pitstop.

    That's a bit overkill if you ask me. For a sub 50 I take a can of Pit Stop, for longer rides a spare tub and Pit Stop.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    thegreatdivide wrote:
    thecycleclinic wrote:
    For training rides I will go out with a two spare tubs and some pitstop.

    That's a bit overkill if you ask me. For a sub 50 I take a can of Pit Stop, for longer rides a spare tub and Pit Stop.

    THis is underkill though... :roll:
    left the forum March 2023
  • petemadoc
    petemadoc Posts: 2,331
    Just for the record the stuff I have to clean off the rims is not the glue, it is a thick layer of latex gunk, it's patchy and is about 2mm thick. I'd probably feel OK to leave this on for 1 tyre change but after the second tyre comes off the rim would be the right shape. I know that not all tubs leave this stuff behind but Veloflex and Vittoria crosas do.

    With regards to sealant, is pit stop any more reliable than Tufo extreme? Tufo really didn't work on the corsa tyre and the hole was only small. It would seal for a few minutes and then air would burst out. Ugo I know you have a low opinion of sealant but if pit stop works I might carry that instead.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,325
    PeteMadoc wrote:
    With regards to sealant, is pit stop any more reliable than Tufo extreme? Tufo really didn't work on the corsa tyre and the hole was only small. It would seal for a few minutes and then air would burst out. Ugo I know you have a low opinion of sealant but if pit stop works I might carry that instead.

    The sealant will work for 70-80% of the punctures, not all of them. It won't seal a large tear... if you have a way to make it back home, good... I don't, my wife doesn't drive and it could be a long walk to the next train station. I suppose one can call a taxi, assuming he can be clear at the phone where he is actually located, as these people won't take "somewhere between X and Y on the B 2033"... then of course the taxi bill will probably be close the cost of a couple of spare tubulars...
    I mean, if you prefer not to spoil the lines of your bike by having a tubular behind the saddle instead... your choice...
    left the forum March 2023

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